Is Moses Malone the most underrated Supstar of all time?

[mdonnelly1989]

Moses Malone is a Lock top 25 player of all time. But rarely do I hear his name mentioned when talking about the all time greats.

Dude was a walking double double.

[No-more-rings]

His passing was very very weak, and his defense is well below a lot of other bigs. Top 20-25 seems more than fair imo.

[capfan33]

Not a huge fan of bigs who are offensive black holes and aren't great team defenders. I just think there's a limit to how much impact you can have, even though I think Moses is probably as good as it gets within those limitations.

[Cavsfansince84]

Just noticed that Moses died back in 2015. I don't really recall hearing much about it because I'd forgotten he died that young. Only 60.

[Snakebites]

His passing was very very weak, and his defense is well below a lot of other bigs. Top 20-25 seems more than fair imo.

Pretty much this.

And it's not like he was Hakeem or Kareem level as a post scorer either, which would make up for some of that.

[penbeast0]

Most underrated superstar . . . George Mikan. Best in league for half a decade, GOAT domination albeit in a weaker league, nobody talks about him and gets left out of most people's top 20 because it was the 50s and no one cares about them.

[70sFan]

His passing was very very weak, and his defense is well below a lot of other bigs. Top 20-25 seems more than fair imo.

Pretty much this.

And it's not like he was Hakeem or Kareem level as a post scorer either, which would make up for some of that.

He wasn't that far behind them though.

[atlantabbq99]

Moses Malone is a Lock top 25 player of all time. But rarely do I hear his name mentioned when talking about the all time greats.

Dude was a walking double double.

Moses has admitted that he would intentionally miss easy shots so he can grab extra rebounds. that is why his offensive rebounding numbers are ridiculous and his FG% was only 47%, while other elite bigs' FG% were 60%.

This has really hurt this legacy alot and that is why you can't take Moses stats at face value.

[70sFan]

Moses Malone is a Lock top 25 player of all time. But rarely do I hear his name mentioned when talking about the all time greats.

Dude was a walking double double.

Moses has admitted that he would intentionally miss easy shots so he can grab extra rebounds. that is why his offensive rebounding numbers are ridiculous and his FG% was only 47%, while other elite bigs' FG% were 60%.

This has really hurt this legacy alot and that is why you can't take Moses stats at face value.

I made tracking of such possessions on over 30 games sample and the effect was quite small. I don't have the data in front of me right now, but I already posted it around half year ago. Moses rebounded his shots significantly less often than people believe.

[atlantabbq99]

Moses Malone is a Lock top 25 player of all time. But rarely do I hear his name mentioned when talking about the all time greats.

Dude was a walking double double.

Moses has admitted that he would intentionally miss easy shots so he can grab extra rebounds. that is why his offensive rebounding numbers are ridiculous and his FG% was only 47%, while other elite bigs' FG% were 60%.

This has really hurt this legacy alot and that is why you can't take Moses stats at face value.

I made tracking of such possessions on over 30 games sample and the effect was quite small. I don't have the data in front of me right now, but I already posted it around half year ago. Moses rebounded his shots significantly less often than people believe.

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nba/news/andre-drummond-moses-malone-rebounding-miss-pistons/1mpi88nqa2n0l1gwhx3dtmasn3

It was common knowledge at the time around the NBA what Moses was doing, kind of a inside joke, even his teammates were teasing him about it. but it is not an illegal move, you are just sacrificing your FG%

[migya]

Close to it.

[70sFan]

Moses has admitted that he would intentionally miss easy shots so he can grab extra rebounds. that is why his offensive rebounding numbers are ridiculous and his FG% was only 47%, while other elite bigs' FG% were 60%.

This has really hurt this legacy alot and that is why you can't take Moses stats at face value.

I made tracking of such possessions on over 30 games sample and the effect was quite small. I don't have the data in front of me right now, but I already posted it around half year ago. Moses rebounded his shots significantly less often than people believe.

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nba/news/andre-drummond-moses-malone-rebounding-miss-pistons/1mpi88nqa2n0l1gwhx3dtmasn3

It was common knowledge at the time around the NBA what Moses was doing, kind of a inside joke, even his teammates were teasing him about it. but it is not an illegal move, you are just sacrificing your FG%

I know that and narratives are often misleading. Do you trust inside jokes over tracking data?

[Dr Positivity]

One of my issues is I'm not a big fan of his career after the 83 season despite only being 28 at the time. He does have a nice bounce back 3rd place MVP season in 85 although his advanced stats are down. I don't put a ton of value into his seasons in his 30s. I think this probably costs him on all time list. There is no reason longevity wise to put him above Robinson for example, I mean I'm taking post injury Robinson over Moses after 85 pretty easily.

[Jaivl]

Eh he's probably one of the contenders. I'd lean for sure towards KG on general media, but not around here.

[SickMother]

Depends where one ranks him, I guess. HoopsHype list from Oct 6 2021 had Moses 15th, ESPN list from Feb 21 2022 put him in the same spot.

That's overrated for me. I have him in the 20-29 tier with guys like Artis, Barkley, Mailman, Stockton, Wade, CP3, Kawhi, Giannis & Jokic.

[f4p]

he definitely has longevity problems, but it feels like people even underrate his prime sometimes. not just winning 3 mvp's, because those can be flukes of circumstances (although 3 flukes?), but he not only was far and away the best player on one of the most dominant playoff runs ever, but just 2 years before, he got a 40-42 rockets team to the finals, beating the lakers in the first round and outplaying kareem. 2 amazing playoff runs in 3 years with an mvp in between? i don't know if he could pass or play defense but no one seemed to have an answer for how to beat him.

as for missing on purpose, i'm guessing that was a bit of storytelling or "printing the legend", so to speak. moses was a great rebounder, didn't seem to have the best touch, and wasn't a giant who could take his time on putbacks before worrying about being blocked. i'm guessing all those combined led to his one man tip drills. if you're moses, it's better to say you were just missing on purpose while winking at the reporter than to say "yeah, i just suck at making 2 foot shots in traffic."

[frica]

Not a huge fan of bigs who are offensive black holes and aren't great team defenders. I just think there's a limit to how much impact you can have, even though I think Moses is probably as good as it gets within those limitations.

Not an offensive black hole, didn't handle the ball enough to be one.

[atlantabbq99]

To give the most simplest answer about it, if you want to know why Moses is not top five of best bigs of all time, Russell, Wilt, Hakeem, Duncan, Shaq..... it all comes down to FG%

[Texas Chuck]

I think it might be the other Malone, but yeah Moses is definitely a contender. But unless you are one of the favored sons we tend to focus on what players don't do well far more than what they do do well. And we don't have all the built-in excuses ready for you at a moment's notice.

And of course he's pre +/- data which means some of the most influential posters here are never championing him.

[kcktiny]

and his defense is well below a lot of other bigs

Oh?

The seven seasons after the NBA/ABA merger, Malone was just 1 of 4 Cs named all-defensive 1st team, along with Jabbar, Walton, and Caldwell Jones.

Those same seven seasons the all-defensive 2nd team Cs were Malone, Jabbar, Gilmore, Cowens, Sikma, George Johnson, and Tree Rollins - and of those seven, during that time only Jabbar and Malone were also named to an all-defensive 1st team.

Evidently the people that saw him play at the time and voted for these awards thought a lot of his defense.

One of my issues is I'm not a big fan of his career after the 83 season despite only being 28 at the time.

The three seasons after 1982-83, the 76ers averaged 55 wins a season, and Malone averaged 37 min/g, 23.7 pts/g, 12.7 reb/g. He was just 1 of 4 players in the league that played all 3 seasons and that averaged 20+ pts/g and 10+ reb/g (the others were Jeff Ruland, Ralph Sampson, and Larry Bird).

He was named to the all-NBA 1st team in 1984-85 (age 31), and the all-NBA 2nd team in 1983-84 (and even in 1986-87 at the age of 33).

He has 3 MVPs, was named all-NBA 1st team 4 times, all-NBA 2nd team 4 times, and to an all-defensive team twice.

Is he underrated now? Likely. Was he underrated back then in the late 70s and early 80s? No. Back then - the decade after the merger - he was widely considered 1 of the 2 best Cs in the league, along with Jabbar, hands down. Over the entire decade he averaged 25 pts/g and 14-15 reb/g.