Will Carmelo Anthony Legacy Significantly Improve with Time?

[dk1115]

I wonder if Carmelo is gonna get to 30k

[3toheadmelo]

People are mad that they heard the truth about what went down in Denver and their narrative is busted

[3toheadmelo]

Jones averaged 17.5 MPG in the playoff run, he not even guarded the "best player" half of the time because... You do the maths. He also didnt defend Dirk in the semifinals as another example.

MAYBE trying to move one from 33y Billups and 32y Martin was legitimate. But of course im not surprised that Anthony tries to save his legacy in such a lame way

Bolded it for you since you missed it. Rewatch the WCF. Who spent the most time guarding Kobe?

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Dont know, maybe rewatch the WCF because it wasnt Jones..

So who was it? You couldn’t even name who and only looked at box scores

[3toheadmelo]

Do you have quotes from Denver's management saying they wanted to move on from all their good players even if Melo stayed, or just a quote after the fact from a guy who thinks it would make him look better if they did? Is that guy also claiming that a below-average player who played less than 18mpg in the playoffs and made his team worse when he was on the court was a 'key piece'?

If a one season rental career roleplayer is a 'tremendous voice in your locker room' maybe you need to go out and get, like Chauncey Billups or something, so guys can listen to someone who's actually good at winning basketball. Or maybe that was a job for Melo?

Denver literally moved on from all of those players I mentioned in 2011. But you want quotes because you don’t believe in reality?

Yeah, because Melo demanded out which forced them to rebuild, which they did on the fly and were no worse without Melo. Nobody who was paying attention at the time is buying Melo's story. He wasn't happy that the Nuggets weren't a real contender (a lot of that is down to Melo not being anything like a championship centerpiece), and he wanted to play in New York.

You aren’t buying it because it doesn’t fit your false narrative. But hey do you. Go trust Chris Broussard.

[Knightfall]

I think the average fan will forget about him real fast if he doesnt seek a media job post career...

And the only reason "he" beat prime Dirk was the reason that he had the way better team around him and every non Dirk Mav choked.
Dirk Nowitzki averaged 34.4 points, 11.6 rebounds and 4.0 assists in 5 games versus the Nuggets in the 2009 Western Conference Semifinals.
Carmelo Anthony averaged 30.0 points, 6.8 rebounds and 3.4 assists in 5 games versus the Mavericks in the 2009 Western Conference Semifinals.

28k points and no jersey retirement anywhere

Look at that shabby pathetic stat line. Realistically he should probably have his Jersey retired in 2 teams.

[3toheadmelo]

This is just crazy talk. Who one earth told you this?

He was annoyed they weren't good enough to contend, sure, but that's typically what forcing your way out looks like. When you're supporting cast is actually pretty decent and you, yourself, aren't really good enough to build a contender around it tends to hurt your legacy...

You should learn the facts. Melo spilled the whole tea about it. He didn’t want to leave Denver. But they wanted to rebuild instead of building off the WCF team. They let Dahntay Jones go who was a key piece of the WCF team. They were going to move Chauncey, K Mart and Jr Smith. George Karl was trying to get Melo traded for Derrick Favors.

Watch on YouTube

lol Dahntay Jones. Such BS. This is just him re-writing history to try and make himself look good. A real winner with any loyalty would have let the team make moves for the better. KMart was constantly injured and on a terrible contract, there's no way the Nuggets would have traded Chauncey and JR was decent but a headcase. And again, lol Dahntay Jones.

The fact is he was talking about teaming up with other stars at a wedding long before any of this stuff supposedly happened. Lala wanted a reality show. They called Denver a cow town. And he ended up leaving a team with a legit shot at a championship for a team that had no shot.

He’s not rewriting any of this. The wedding was in the summer of 2010. Jones was already gone. So your narrative is busted there.

You say “there’s no way they would’ve traded Chauncey” yet they literally traded him along with Melo to rebuild. Another narrative busted. You can try to believe your conspiracy theories, but we know what really happened.

[cupcakesnake]

I predict that in the future, great scorers who don't contribute in other areas of the game, will be seen more as role players and less as stars. Bucket getters like Melo are celebrated because we see the big number (ppg) and when we watch games we see every bucket. All the things that Melo sucked at are less visible. We don't all see the lacklustre defensive rotations, we don't all the passes he missed.

We already know scoring specialists don't take you deep in the playoffs. But we keep putting these guys on that level, giving them all-stars and all-NBA looks and it's only late in their career when its more "proven" they don't make your team a contender that we start to turn on them. Scoring bias is real. It's the most visible thing (both watching games and perusing stats) so we overrate it. The game is about scoring, yes, but so much more goes into a team scoring than just the person who puts the ball in the basket. We know this. We understood Nash was a better player than Amar'e, or that Ben Wallace was more valuable than Rip Hamilton. We just forget when a player scores enough points (especially when they can hit tough shots) and we get stars in our eyes,

Melo wasn't a good enough passer for his elite scoring threat to translate into elite team offense. Melo wasn't a good off-ball player so he wasn't boosting other playmakers on his team. Melo was one of the worst defenders in the league, despite having elite athletic tools. Melo was a bucket getter who could also grab rebounds when motivated. But that's not enough to put him anywhere near the all-time great players in this league.

[SA37]

I predict that in the future, great scorers who don't contribute in other areas of the game, will be seen more as role players and less as stars. Bucket getters like Melo are celebrated because we see the big number (ppg) and when we watch games we see every bucket. All the things that Melo sucked at are less visible. We don't all see the lacklustre defensive rotations, we don't all the passes he missed.

We already know scoring specialists don't take you deep in the playoffs. But we keep putting these guys on that level, giving them all-stars and all-NBA looks and it's only late in their career when its more "proven" they don't make your team a contender that we start to turn on them. Scoring bias is real. It's the most visible thing (both watching games and perusing stats) so we overrate it. The game is about scoring, yes, but so much more goes into a team scoring than just the person who puts the ball in the basket. We know this. We understood Nash was a better player than Amar'e, or that Ben Wallace was more valuable than Rip Hamilton. We just forget when a player scores enough points (especially when they can hit tough shots) and we get stars in our eyes,

Melo wasn't a good enough passer for his elite scoring threat to translate into elite team offense. Melo wasn't a good off-ball player so he wasn't boosting other playmakers on his team. Melo was one of the worst defenders in the league, despite having elite athletic tools. Melo was a bucket getter who could also grab rebounds when motivated. But that's not enough to put him anywhere near the all-time great players in this league.

I think the issue is that the media and fans have become obsessed with pointing out everything players can't/don't do as opposed to what they are good at. 99% of NBA players are not going to be elite or even all-star level in all facets of their games. The biggest difference in how scorers are viewed historically is if they win championships.

Carmelo Anthony is one of the best players to ever represent the US Olympic team. He is one of the best scorers the NBA has ever had (if he plays next year, he'll almost certainly pass Shaquille O'Neal for 10th place on the all-time scoring list ABA or NBA; he's currently 8th and would move past Shaq to 7th as far as NBA-only scoring goes).

Scorers can only overcome the bias from media/fans if they win a championship. You mention Ben Wallace who was fantastic defensively, but he was worse in every possible aspect offensively than Carmelo is/was defensively or as a passer. But people give Ben Wallace a pass because he was on a winning team. Why is Wallace's defensive dominance more worthy than Carmelo's offensive dominance? Because Melo was on bad teams and Wallace happened to end up on a good one?

[mszymko]

He should have gone to Chi

[cupcakesnake]

I predict that in the future, great scorers who don't contribute in other areas of the game, will be seen more as role players and less as stars. Bucket getters like Melo are celebrated because we see the big number (ppg) and when we watch games we see every bucket. All the things that Melo sucked at are less visible. We don't all see the lacklustre defensive rotations, we don't all the passes he missed.

We already know scoring specialists don't take you deep in the playoffs. But we keep putting these guys on that level, giving them all-stars and all-NBA looks and it's only late in their career when its more "proven" they don't make your team a contender that we start to turn on them. Scoring bias is real. It's the most visible thing (both watching games and perusing stats) so we overrate it. The game is about scoring, yes, but so much more goes into a team scoring than just the person who puts the ball in the basket. We know this. We understood Nash was a better player than Amar'e, or that Ben Wallace was more valuable than Rip Hamilton. We just forget when a player scores enough points (especially when they can hit tough shots) and we get stars in our eyes,

Melo wasn't a good enough passer for his elite scoring threat to translate into elite team offense. Melo wasn't a good off-ball player so he wasn't boosting other playmakers on his team. Melo was one of the worst defenders in the league, despite having elite athletic tools. Melo was a bucket getter who could also grab rebounds when motivated. But that's not enough to put him anywhere near the all-time great players in this league.

I think the issue is that the media and fans have become obsessed with pointing out everything players can't/don't do as opposed to what they are good at. 99% of NBA players are not going to be elite or even all-star level in all facets of their games. The biggest difference in how scorers are viewed historically is if they win championships.

Carmelo Anthony is one of the best players to ever represent the US Olympic team. He is one of the best scorers the NBA has ever had (if he plays next year, he'll almost certainly pass Shaquille O'Neal for 10th place on the all-time scoring list ABA or NBA; he's currently 8th and would move past Shaq to 7th as far as NBA-only scoring goes).

Scorers can only overcome the bias from media/fans if they win a championship. You mention Ben Wallace who was fantastic defensively, but was worse in every possible aspect offensively than Carmelo is/was defensively or as a passer. But people give Ben Wallace a pass because he was on a winning team. Why is Wallace's defensive dominance more worthy than Carmelo's offensive dominance? Because Melo was on bad teams and Wallace happened to end up on a good one?

I do not see Ben Wallace get ranked above Carmelo Anthony very often. Melo was recently named to the NBA 75 team and Ben was left off. Carmelo was voted to the all-star team 10x (to Ben's 4) and all-NBA 6x (to Ben's 5). I definitely rank Ben higher than Melo, but the wider NBA fan base does not.

Ben's offensive output was so obviously negligible that it didn't really require long analysis or a ton of mention. Carmelo's shortcomings were more subtle and it took us a long time to fully understand those shortcomings and realize how little Melo improved on his non-scoring skills over his career. There was more to talk about.

If the wider NBA fan base and media were consistently ranking Big Ben over Melo, I think you'd have a point. But since that's not the case, I'm unclear what you're trying to say.

[Swish1906]

Bolded it for you since you missed it. Rewatch the WCF. Who spent the most time guarding Kobe?

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Dont know, maybe rewatch the WCF because it wasnt Jones..

So who was it? You couldn’t even name who and only looked at box scores

Doesnt matter, we are talking here about your claims about Jones. Just take the L

[3toheadmelo]

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Dont know, maybe rewatch the WCF because it wasnt Jones..

So who was it? You couldn’t even name who and only looked at box scores

Doesnt matter, we are talking here about your claims about Jones. Just take the L

Haha a box score watcher. Yikes. Massive L for you.

[Alatan]

Mello is that guy at pickup that always wants the ball, dribbles the air out of it, never passes and doesnt know a shot he doesnt like. Naturally, blames teammates whenever he loses.

Whats there not to like?

[6ixSideSniper]

Do you have quotes from Denver's management saying they wanted to move on from all their good players even if Melo stayed, or just a quote after the fact from a guy who thinks it would make him look better if they did? Is that guy also claiming that a below-average player who played less than 18mpg in the playoffs and made his team worse when he was on the court was a 'key piece'?

If a one season rental career roleplayer is a 'tremendous voice in your locker room' maybe you need to go out and get, like Chauncey Billups or something, so guys can listen to someone who's actually good at winning basketball. Or maybe that was a job for Melo?

Denver literally moved on from all of those players I mentioned in 2011. But you want quotes because you don’t believe in reality?

Yeah, because Melo demanded out which forced them to rebuild, which they did on the fly and were no worse without Melo. Nobody who was paying attention at the time is buying Melo's story. He wasn't happy that the Nuggets weren't a real contender (a lot of that is down to Melo not being anything like a championship centerpiece), and he wanted to play in New York.

He didn’t give a damn about winning, leaving Denver was never about that, which makes it even worse. You can’t leave a better team for a for worse one and have your legitimate reason be because you want to win.

[warriorschamps]

No why would it? Especially as the game continue to move further and further away from his style of play. A guy like Reggie Miller might see his legacy improve as the things he did well are the things that are being emphasized now. The ability to shoot, be efficient on offense, move without the ball, etc.

But even with Miller it won't improve a ton. We can really only judge you how you fared in your own era. That's why judging across eras is somewhat silly. We can make a list of the 5 greatest players from each era/decade(s) and it would be fun but I wouldn't put a ton of stock into it.

We will judge Carmelo based on how he was judged in his own era. He has been in the league since 2003 and only twice did he make all NBA 2nd team meaning he was only view as top 10 player twice. Never once was he viewed as a top 5 player(all nba 1st team). And he never won a league MVP so not one year was he ever viewed as the best player in the league. He also only had 4 all nba third teams, so if you add that to the two all nba 2nd teams that's 6. He's been in the league over 18 years so for more than two thirds of his career he wasn't seen as a top 15 player in the league. And Melo played in an era when going iso heavy, pounding the air out of the ball and trying to score over double and triple teams instead of passing to open teammates were much more common than now. The league has moved away from that style(the Melo style), so if the league is moving away from his style I just don't see his legacy getting better.

[Godymas]

no, it will probably get worse over time but his Denver years will get more praise as they seem almost a forgotten memory because Melo peaked on the Knicks.

a lot of people will say Melo should've never been put as the first option on a team, the 2013 Knicks were as good as it gets and were still a second round exit and would've never beaten the Heat.

He's almost like a more decorated DeMar DeRozan.

also his obvious attitude issues will be viewed as a massive failure for him.

Also his impatience with forcing a trade and leaving the Knicks depleted was a mistake even if the Knicks were then acquring Amare to make a dynamic duo. If the Knicks could've opted to give away just a little bit less or if there was a way Melo could've just become a normal FA like LeBron did at the time and sign with the Knicks in the open market, it would've make a big difference to the Knicks who could've retained more of their roster when acquiring Melo.

No I think Melo will be viewed as a diva without the superstar resume to back it up, technically Melo was a "superstar" but he was more of an off the court superstar. His play on the court was very good but the advanced numbers, the efficiency, the lack of defense, the lack of good fundamental team play, unfortunately there are a lot of knocks against Melo despite being a talented scorer for many years. Melo benefitted from playing with a strong Denver team, being in a big market in NY, by the time he left NY he brought the same big ego superstar mentality with none of the ability to back it up and it hurt the teams he was on and their chance of winning. It really is a shame he couldn't make it work in OKC/Houston. I don't even know if he'd hold up to a guy like Dominique Wilkens/Clyde Drexler but as great as Clyde and Niq were they don't really get remembered as often from the 90s because they were just above average stars overshadowed by the real stars like Shaq/MJ/Hakeem/Barkley. Second tier stars from eras get forgotten a bit more easily, especially if they don't get a ring as a "bus driver"

[Infinite Llamas]

On top of all the other issues listed above, Carmello's legacy is hurt by the fact that he isn't "a legend" at any NBA team. He is very unlikely to have his jersey retired by anyone, and he has no realistic claim to be any franchise's all time great. There will be no fanbase keeping his legacy alive.

Yup. I wonder if all the mercenaries in the league will regret the fact that they gained no loyalty with the team. That used to be the way to gain a legacy other than by winning titles, something that very few players do as a main guy.

I've heard people say the Nuggets should retire his jersey...but why? Why honor the guy who forced his way off your team? If he stayed in Denver another few years, there probably would be a statue of the guy outside the Pepsi Center (or Ball Arena...can't get used to the name change).

Denver retiring his number makes little sense as they already have a #15 they will one day retire and potentially build a statue for.

[nomansland]

You should learn the facts. Melo spilled the whole tea about it. He didn’t want to leave Denver. But they wanted to rebuild instead of building off the WCF team. They let Dahntay Jones go who was a key piece of the WCF team. They were going to move Chauncey, K Mart and Jr Smith. George Karl was trying to get Melo traded for Derrick Favors.

Watch on YouTube

lol Dahntay Jones. Such BS. This is just him re-writing history to try and make himself look good. A real winner with any loyalty would have let the team make moves for the better. KMart was constantly injured and on a terrible contract, there's no way the Nuggets would have traded Chauncey and JR was decent but a headcase. And again, lol Dahntay Jones.

The fact is he was talking about teaming up with other stars at a wedding long before any of this stuff supposedly happened. Lala wanted a reality show. They called Denver a cow town. And he ended up leaving a team with a legit shot at a championship for a team that had no shot.

He’s not rewriting any of this. The wedding was in the summer of 2010. Jones was already gone. So your narrative is busted there.

You say “there’s no way they would’ve traded Chauncey” yet they literally traded him along with Melo to rebuild. Another narrative busted. You can try to believe your conspiracy theories, but we know what really happened.

They would have kept Chauncey if Melo had stayed. Melo broke up the team.

But tell us more about Dahntay Jones.

[LBJKB24MJ23]

who?

[DrCoach]

He will have 30K points when its all said and done, he is a mid range beast

Lol no. He is 38 and almost 2k away and not even the Lakers wanted him back.

hes 1711 pts away and was productive last season with his highest ever TS

A team will take him and play him