Will Carmelo Anthony Legacy Significantly Improve with Time?

[Bornstellar]

He's basically the SF version of Joe Johnson. Great iso scorer, doesn't do much else, featured a lot more than he probably should've been, no iconic playoff moments or real playoff success.

[3toheadmelo]

There's nothing wrong with players wanting to play near where they live. He's from NYC. His wife is as well. This was about location not basketball. And that is fine.

It’s not about wanting to play for the Knicks. People are saying he “forced himself out” when he says he wanted to stay. But they wanted to rebuild instead of building off the WCF team. That’s his own words.

There is no indication they wanted to rebuild. They won 50, 47 (pro-rated for lockout and 57 games in the next 3 seasons after the Melo trade. They were still trying to win games.

Melo left because he wanted to live in NY. That's fine. The fans who think players have a duty to spend their lives in cities they don't want to live in are nuts. But at the same time there is no reason to allow a falsehood either. Everyone at the time knew this was about NYC. The direction of the Nuggets over the next 3 seasons shows it wasn't about a possible rebuild.

He wanted to live in NYC. Very reasonable. I'm stuck on the west coast right now and saving up to move back. I don't blame him

They only made the playoffs for 2 more seasons and then missed the playoffs for the next 5 years.
Nobody is denying he wanted NYC for multiple reasons. That was his main destination after he asked out of Denver because they wanted to rebuild.

[sp6r=underrated]

It’s not about wanting to play for the Knicks. People are saying he “forced himself out” when he says he wanted to stay. But they wanted to rebuild instead of building off the WCF team. That’s his own words.

There is no indication they wanted to rebuild. They won 50, 47 (pro-rated for lockout and 57 games in the next 3 seasons after the Melo trade. They were still trying to win games.

Melo left because he wanted to live in NY. That's fine. The fans who think players have a duty to spend their lives in cities they don't want to live in are nuts. But at the same time there is no reason to allow a falsehood either. Everyone at the time knew this was about NYC. The direction of the Nuggets over the next 3 seasons shows it wasn't about a possible rebuild.

He wanted to live in NYC. Very reasonable. I'm stuck on the west coast right now and saving up to move back. I don't blame him

They only made the playoffs for 2 more seasons and then missed the playoffs for the next 5 years.
Nobody is denying he wanted NYC for multiple reasons. That was his main destination after he asked out of Denver because they wanted to rebuild.

The trade was made middle of 2010. They made the playoffs, easily, in 2011, 2012 and 2013. That doesn't happen if a team wants to build. They had a better record than NY every year until 2014. And outside of 2014, every year of his NY tenure.

It was 3 1/2 years after the trade that Denver missed the playoffs. And even then there worst record was 30-52. They missed the playoffs with 46 wins. That isn't a team gunning for a rebuild.

Melo wanting out of Denver was about location. Nothing more nothing less. And I think that's fine. Players should have the right to control their career. His wife hated living there.

"Listen, I used to live in Denver with him. If I can live in Denver, I can live anywhere.

If my wife hated the current city I played in, I try to leave. That is normal. It happens in households all the time throughout the country. I remember my mom telling my dad when his company was bought out she did not want to move to Michigan.

But this narrative about avoid rebuilding is something no one talked about at the time. And the evidence available supports the contention this was almost entirerly about location.

[3toheadmelo]

There's nothing wrong with players wanting to play near where they live. He's from NYC. His wife is as well. This was about location not basketball. And that is fine.

It’s not about wanting to play for the Knicks. People are saying he “forced himself out” when he says he wanted to stay. But they wanted to rebuild instead of building off the WCF team. That’s his own words.

But unfortunately the thing that may disprove Melo's logic explaning that is why did he choose to resign with the Knicks coming off a year where they didn't make the playoffs and the team's prospects didn't look that promising? So he wanted out of Denver cause they were rebuilding but wanted to stay with a declining Knicks squad, where's the logic behind that? Melo wanted to play in NY, liked living in NY, and he and his family preferred NY and didn't want to be in Denver anymore simple as that. He's just playing it cautious because he doesn't want diss a small market and be hated indefinitely in Denver. He's the one who mentioned that his jersey should be retired in Denver, not any Nuggets fans or the organization. Now that his career is winding down he wants his time in Denver to be appreciated especially since now it's looking like the only place where he had some sustained success.

He chose to resign with the Knicks because we just hired Phil Jackson. We all thought Phil was going to turn the Knicks into a winner. Melo even took a paycut to help the Knicks make a splash in 2015's free agency. He wanted to win.

I don't know if Melo gets his jersey retired by Denver. But there's a pretty good case to be made. They made the playoffs every single year with him there. I do believe his legacy will be more remembered by his days in New York however. He made the Knicks relevant again, even if it was short lived.

[HomoSapien]

Did Alex English's legacy improve over time?

[sp6r=underrated]

It’s not about wanting to play for the Knicks. People are saying he “forced himself out” when he says he wanted to stay. But they wanted to rebuild instead of building off the WCF team. That’s his own words.

But unfortunately the thing that may disprove Melo's logic explaning that is why did he choose to resign with the Knicks coming off a year where they didn't make the playoffs and the team's prospects didn't look that promising? So he wanted out of Denver cause they were rebuilding but wanted to stay with a declining Knicks squad, where's the logic behind that? Melo wanted to play in NY, liked living in NY, and he and his family preferred NY and didn't want to be in Denver anymore simple as that. He's just playing it cautious because he doesn't want diss a small market and be hated indefinitely in Denver. He's the one who mentioned that his jersey should be retired in Denver, not any Nuggets fans or the organization. Now that his career is winding down he wants his time in Denver to be appreciated especially since now it's looking like the only place where he had some sustained success.

He chose to resign with the Knicks because we just hired Phil Jackson. We all thought Phil was going to turn the Knicks into a winner. Melo even took a paycut to help the Knicks make a splash in 2015's free agency. He wanted to win.

I don't know if Melo gets his jersey retired by Denver. But there's a pretty good case to be made. They made the playoffs every single year with him there. I do believe his legacy will be more remembered by his days in New York however. He made the Knicks relevant again, even if it was short lived.

And the way Phil and others scapegoated him was a disgrace. You rarely see teams publicly dog a players like Phil did to Melo. And you never see it when it involves a player who is playing hard. Still pisses me off.

[3toheadmelo]

There is no indication they wanted to rebuild. They won 50, 47 (pro-rated for lockout and 57 games in the next 3 seasons after the Melo trade. They were still trying to win games.

Melo left because he wanted to live in NY. That's fine. The fans who think players have a duty to spend their lives in cities they don't want to live in are nuts. But at the same time there is no reason to allow a falsehood either. Everyone at the time knew this was about NYC. The direction of the Nuggets over the next 3 seasons shows it wasn't about a possible rebuild.

He wanted to live in NYC. Very reasonable. I'm stuck on the west coast right now and saving up to move back. I don't blame him

They only made the playoffs for 2 more seasons and then missed the playoffs for the next 5 years.
Nobody is denying he wanted NYC for multiple reasons. That was his main destination after he asked out of Denver because they wanted to rebuild.

The trade was made middle of 2010. They made the playoffs, easily, in 2011, 2012 and 2013. That doesn't happen if a team wants to build. They had a better record than NY every year until 2014. And outside of 2014, every year of his NY tenure.

It was 3 1/2 years after the trade that Denver missed the playoffs. And even then there worst record was 30-52. They missed the playoffs with 46 wins. That isn't a team gunning for a rebuild.

Melo wanting out of Denver was about location. Nothing more nothing less. And I think that's fine. Players should have the right to control their career. His wife hated living there.

"Listen, I used to live in Denver with him. If I can live in Denver, I can live anywhere.

If my wife hated the current city I played in, I try to leave. That is normal. It happens in households all the time throughout the country. I remember my mom telling my dad when his company was bought out she did not want to move to Michigan.

But this narrative about avoid rebuilding is something no one talked about at the time. And the evidence available supports the contention this was almost entirerly about location.

The trade was in Feb 2011. They were making the playoffs by the time Melo left.

My point stands however. They were def going in a younger direction. Just look the starting lineup of the Denver Nuggets team in 2013. Gallinari (24 Y), Lawson (25Y), Faried (23 Y), Koufous (23Y), Iggy (29 Y). Only one player was entering their prime. Rest was just young players. In fact, there was only one player 30 years and older, Andre Miller. Everyone else on that roster was pretty young. They overachieved with young players that year.

We can choose to believe what we want. I'll stick with Melo's word.

[3toheadmelo]

But unfortunately the thing that may disprove Melo's logic explaning that is why did he choose to resign with the Knicks coming off a year where they didn't make the playoffs and the team's prospects didn't look that promising? So he wanted out of Denver cause they were rebuilding but wanted to stay with a declining Knicks squad, where's the logic behind that? Melo wanted to play in NY, liked living in NY, and he and his family preferred NY and didn't want to be in Denver anymore simple as that. He's just playing it cautious because he doesn't want diss a small market and be hated indefinitely in Denver. He's the one who mentioned that his jersey should be retired in Denver, not any Nuggets fans or the organization. Now that his career is winding down he wants his time in Denver to be appreciated especially since now it's looking like the only place where he had some sustained success.

He chose to resign with the Knicks because we just hired Phil Jackson. We all thought Phil was going to turn the Knicks into a winner. Melo even took a paycut to help the Knicks make a splash in 2015's free agency. He wanted to win.

I don't know if Melo gets his jersey retired by Denver. But there's a pretty good case to be made. They made the playoffs every single year with him there. I do believe his legacy will be more remembered by his days in New York however. He made the Knicks relevant again, even if it was short lived.

And the way Phil and others scapegoated him was a disgrace. You rarely see teams publicly dog a players like Phil did to Melo. And you never see it when it involves a player who is playing hard. Still pisses me off.

Yeah that made me angry too. It was a horrible look for the Knicks. I remember there was star players around the league disapproving of what Phil was doing to Melo. Lebron was one of them. Phil was so awful

[sp6r=underrated]

He chose to resign with the Knicks because we just hired Phil Jackson. We all thought Phil was going to turn the Knicks into a winner. Melo even took a paycut to help the Knicks make a splash in 2015's free agency. He wanted to win.

I don't know if Melo gets his jersey retired by Denver. But there's a pretty good case to be made. They made the playoffs every single year with him there. I do believe his legacy will be more remembered by his days in New York however. He made the Knicks relevant again, even if it was short lived.

And the way Phil and others scapegoated him was a disgrace. You rarely see teams publicly dog a players like Phil did to Melo. And you never see it when it involves a player who is playing hard. Still pisses me off.

Yeah that made me angry too. It was a horrible look for the Knicks. I remember there was star players around the league disapproving of what Phil was doing to Melo. Lebron was one of them. Phil was so awful

You know how stupid that was for attracting free agents. Mind boggling. I'm just thinking of my own pedestrian career. I work in the public sector. I know which bosses are jerks to employees, insulting their work in public. I've avoided the plague. Why would any talented player put up with that crap?

I remember reading an interview once with a former player. They asked him what was a good piece of advice he got from a vet when he was a rookie. He said: never comment negatively about another players contract or being on the team. Even if you think he's overpaid, lazy, don't do it. It just caused harm.

25 yrs old understand that and it an executive couldn't grasp it. What a fool

[Wallace_Wallace]

Jones averaged 17.5 MPG in the playoff run, he not even guarded the "best player" half of the time because... You do the maths. He also didnt defend Dirk in the semifinals as another example.

MAYBE trying to move one from 33y Billups and 32y Martin was legitimate. But of course im not surprised that Anthony tries to save his legacy in such a lame way

Bolded it for you since you missed it. Rewatch the WCF. Who spent the most time guarding Kobe?

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Dont know, maybe rewatch the WCF because it wasnt Jones..

It was probably Anthony, Billups or JR Smith......Dahntay Jones spent a lot of time on the bench due to foul trouble, and also he wasn't that good to begin with.

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=dahntay+jones+kobe+bryant
Looks like the only defensive highlight Jones had was him pushing Kobe Bryant in mid air as well as tripping him, while Bryant averaged 34 points on 62.7 TS%. It's also worth mentioning Arron Afflalo did the same exact job Jones did next season and did a much better job as well as shooting much better than Jones ever did.

Also the thing about Melo taking less in 2015.

Spoiler:

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1776195-why-carmelo-anthony-would-never-consider-leaving-ny-knicks-in-free-agency
"If 'Melo chooses to play out his current contract and become a free agent in 2015, he'll be able to re-sign with the Knicks for five years and roughly $140 million. If he chose to sign elsewhere, the max he could get is a four-year deal worth around $104 million, per Larry Coon and ESPN.

He signed a five-year, $124 million deal. $140 - $124 = $16, and $16 million divided by 5 is a grand total of 3.2 million/year. 3.2 million is probably only enough to get a player like Dahntay Jones.

[minami]

Not saying this to be bean but Melo won't be remembered outside of the hardcore. The NBA scorers list isn't really that famous to casuals outside of #1. I remember Alex English being top 10 and he wasn't discussed much when he held that spot.

Melo didn't play on memorable teams, wasn't an ATG highlight player (despite being fun to watch), not really much a playoff marker. Nor was he a trailblazer instead he'll be seen as the prototype for a forgotten type of player. He'll disappear pretty quickly.

Before reading your post the types of Alex English and/or even Rolando Blackman kept coming to mind in an 'essential'/legacy way (more than statistics), which is absolutely not a *bad* thing.

*Blackman even got his jersey retired at Dallas, for some perspective.

[Prospect Dong]

They only made the playoffs for 2 more seasons and then missed the playoffs for the next 5 years.
Nobody is denying he wanted NYC for multiple reasons. That was his main destination after he asked out of Denver because they wanted to rebuild.

The trade was made middle of 2010. They made the playoffs, easily, in 2011, 2012 and 2013. That doesn't happen if a team wants to build. They had a better record than NY every year until 2014. And outside of 2014, every year of his NY tenure.

It was 3 1/2 years after the trade that Denver missed the playoffs. And even then there worst record was 30-52. They missed the playoffs with 46 wins. That isn't a team gunning for a rebuild.

Melo wanting out of Denver was about location. Nothing more nothing less. And I think that's fine. Players should have the right to control their career. His wife hated living there.

"Listen, I used to live in Denver with him. If I can live in Denver, I can live anywhere.

If my wife hated the current city I played in, I try to leave. That is normal. It happens in households all the time throughout the country. I remember my mom telling my dad when his company was bought out she did not want to move to Michigan.

But this narrative about avoid rebuilding is something no one talked about at the time. And the evidence available supports the contention this was almost entirerly about location.

The trade was in Feb 2011. They were making the playoffs by the time Melo left.

My point stands however. They were def going in a younger direction. Just look the starting lineup of the Denver Nuggets team in 2013. Gallinari (24 Y), Lawson (25Y), Faried (23 Y), Koufous (23Y), Iggy (29 Y). Only one player was entering their prime. Rest was just young players. In fact, there was only one player 30 years and older, Andre Miller. Everyone else on that roster was pretty young. They overachieved with young players that year.

We can choose to believe what we want. I'll stick with Melo's word.

They went younger because they traded their franchise player for a bunch of young guys.

Also, when do you think an NBA player's prime begins?

[Prospect Dong]

You should learn the facts. Melo spilled the whole tea about it. He didn’t want to leave Denver. But they wanted to rebuild instead of building off the WCF team. They let Dahntay Jones go who was a key piece of the WCF team. They were going to move Chauncey, K Mart and Jr Smith. George Karl was trying to get Melo traded for Derrick Favors.

Watch on YouTube

Anyone who closely followed the Melo-era Nuggets will tell you this is mostly BS. Not sure why you’re defending this clip so vehemently.

There’s zero chance Denver was actively planning to trade Chauncey. George Karl loved coaching him and claims he’s his favorite player he ever coached. Chauncey is a Denver native that is beloved by the city. He wanted to stay in Denver and was vocally unhappy with the trade. He never would have been moved if Melo didn’t force his way out.

Kenyon Martin was overpaid and over the hill. He was dead weight the majority of his time in Denver due to constantly being injured. His max contract was likely the biggest barrier to the Nuggets ever building a true contender around Melo. So yeah, his contract was about to expire and they were going to let him walk, and that was objectively a GOOD thing. To imply his departure meant Denver was blowing it up just isn’t true.

And I’m not even going to get into Dahntay Jones and JR Smith as that’s already been covered by other posters. If those two were Melo’s reason to force his way to arguably the most poorly run franchise in all of professional sports, than he’s an even bigger fool than anyone has ever given him credit for.

There’s nothing to defend. It’s the facts. I’m pretty sure Melo, who was the superstar on his team, knew what the front office was planning. He literally even says that. Why would he lie about this? What would he gain from lying about this? You’re not making any sense.

You've just spent several hours trying to defend Melo's legacy based on the fact that Denver forced him out rather than the other way around. Because that version makes him look much better. That's why he would lie.

We've already showed you that he was lying about Dahntay Jones' importance to the team, and every time you get called on it you just pivot to "what about [other thing Melo lied about]?" You can't just keeping pointing to him making self-serving claims and then saying they're "facts". That's not how this works.

[Prospect Dong]

You should learn the facts. Melo spilled the whole tea about it. He didn’t want to leave Denver. But they wanted to rebuild instead of building off the WCF team. They let Dahntay Jones go who was a key piece of the WCF team. They were going to move Chauncey, K Mart and Jr Smith. George Karl was trying to get Melo traded for Derrick Favors.

Watch on YouTube

lol Dahntay Jones. Such BS. This is just him re-writing history to try and make himself look good. A real winner with any loyalty would have let the team make moves for the better. KMart was constantly injured and on a terrible contract, there's no way the Nuggets would have traded Chauncey and JR was decent but a headcase. And again, lol Dahntay Jones.

The fact is he was talking about teaming up with other stars at a wedding long before any of this stuff supposedly happened. Lala wanted a reality show. They called Denver a cow town. And he ended up leaving a team with a legit shot at a championship for a team that had no shot.

He’s not rewriting any of this. The wedding was in the summer of 2010. Jones was already gone. So your narrative is busted there.

You say “there’s no way they would’ve traded Chauncey” yet they literally traded him along with Melo to rebuild. Another narrative busted. You can try to believe your conspiracy theories, but we know what really happened.

You understand that "things which happened after Melo demanded a trade", can't be used to prove "Melo demanded a trade because those things happened", right?

[Prospect Dong]

So who was it? You couldn’t even name who and only looked at box scores

Doesnt matter, we are talking here about your claims about Jones. Just take the L

Haha a box score watcher. Yikes. Massive L for you.

If I watch the game will I see Jones playing more minutes than are listed on the box score? Will I see Kobe playing fewer? Did they get Kobe's FG% wrong? Did the Nuggets actually win?

[3toheadmelo]

Anyone who closely followed the Melo-era Nuggets will tell you this is mostly BS. Not sure why you’re defending this clip so vehemently.

There’s zero chance Denver was actively planning to trade Chauncey. George Karl loved coaching him and claims he’s his favorite player he ever coached. Chauncey is a Denver native that is beloved by the city. He wanted to stay in Denver and was vocally unhappy with the trade. He never would have been moved if Melo didn’t force his way out.

Kenyon Martin was overpaid and over the hill. He was dead weight the majority of his time in Denver due to constantly being injured. His max contract was likely the biggest barrier to the Nuggets ever building a true contender around Melo. So yeah, his contract was about to expire and they were going to let him walk, and that was objectively a GOOD thing. To imply his departure meant Denver was blowing it up just isn’t true.

And I’m not even going to get into Dahntay Jones and JR Smith as that’s already been covered by other posters. If those two were Melo’s reason to force his way to arguably the most poorly run franchise in all of professional sports, than he’s an even bigger fool than anyone has ever given him credit for.

There’s nothing to defend. It’s the facts. I’m pretty sure Melo, who was the superstar on his team, knew what the front office was planning. He literally even says that. Why would he lie about this? What would he gain from lying about this? You’re not making any sense.

You've just spent several hours trying to defend Melo's legacy based on the fact that Denver forced him out rather than the other way around. Because that version makes him look much better. That's why he would lie.

We've already showed you that he was lying about Dahntay Jones' importance to the team, and every time you get called on it you just pivot to "what about [other thing Melo lied about]?" You can't just keeping pointing to him making self-serving claims and then saying they're "facts". That's not how this works.

You seem pretty triggered over this. You just quoted me 4 times in a matter of 10 minutes. Lmfao.

[KnIcKsYaNkSmEtS1127]

Ill remember as a selfish player who got jealous of Jeremy Lin. Knicks had some great team chemistry with Felton, Fields, Amare, Danilo and Co. Melo trade destroyed that team.

[HighFlyer23]

Melo is the most irrelevant player who reached a high level I’ve ever seen

Came into the league with Lebron as a rival of sorts and has been forgotten mostly

[Swish1906]

At least we finally know RealGM has also a Carmelo burner

[jokeboy86]

I don't know if Melo gets his jersey retired by Denver. But there's a pretty good case to be made. They made the playoffs every single year with him there. I do believe his legacy will be more remembered by his days in New York however. He made the Knicks relevant again, even if it was short lived.

I think there's 0% chance he gets his jersey retired in Denver similar to how Ray Allen will never get his jersey retired in Milwaukee and its worse for Melo cause at least Allen is still beloved in Milwaukee and by all accounts didn't want to leave. Once the guy who wears your number after you eclipses you in every fashion you can forget about your jersey being retired. And the dirty little secret that ex-players and some current players(mostly all of them US born) don't want to say or acknowledge publicly is that Jokic in 7 years has already eclipsed Melo's entire NBA career. But Melo's a "hooper" and "baller" so they will never say it to disparage him. Even some national talking heads don't want to say it out loud.