Is Moses Malone the most underrated Supstar of all time?

[Samurai]

Most underrated superstar . . . George Mikan. Best in league for half a decade, GOAT domination albeit in a weaker league, nobody talks about him and gets left out of most people's top 20 because it was the 50s and no one cares about them.

You beat me to it. Mikan was the first name that came to my mind in terms of most underrated superstar of all time.

[Cavsfansince84]

Most underrated superstar . . . George Mikan. Best in league for half a decade, GOAT domination albeit in a weaker league, nobody talks about him and gets left out of most people's top 20 because it was the 50s and no one cares about them.

You beat me to it. Mikan was the first name that came to my mind in terms of most underrated superstar of all time.

The thing is though that growing up in the 80's I think the label of superstar carried a certain amount of media exposure/commericals to go with it. It feels more equivalent to just being really good today because there's just so much coverage that it can't be helped so someone like Jokic for instance automatically gets that label. Imo superstars didn't even really exist in bb until Wilt and I'm not even sure that Russell was really a superstar back then. He was more like Duncan except this is back when there was no internet and tv's had 3 or 4 channels. It was such a different world. Moses also falls into this category imo. Even with the 3 mvps and the fmvp I don't think he ever reached superstar status unless you were a big time nba fan. Then from 87 on he plays on teams that get virtually no attention at all so he sort of disappears just as the nba is taking off so that is a huge part of why he feels under appreciated today.

[Samurai]

Most underrated superstar . . . George Mikan. Best in league for half a decade, GOAT domination albeit in a weaker league, nobody talks about him and gets left out of most people's top 20 because it was the 50s and no one cares about them.

You beat me to it. Mikan was the first name that came to my mind in terms of most underrated superstar of all time.

The thing is though that growing up in the 80's I think the label of superstar carried a certain amount of media exposure/commericals to go with it. It feels more equivalent to just being really good today because there's just so much coverage that it can't be helped so someone like Jokic for instance automatically gets that label. Imo superstars didn't even really exist in bb until Wilt and I'm not even sure that Russell was really a superstar back then. He was more like Duncan except this is back when there was no internet and tv's had 3 or 4 channels. It was such a different world. Moses also falls into this category imo. Even with the 3 mvps and the fmvp I don't think he ever reached superstar status unless you were a big time nba fan. Then from 87 on he plays on teams that get virtually no attention at all so he sort of disappears just as the nba is taking off so that is a huge part of why he feels under appreciated today.

Using that criteria means that factors outside of basketball (the state of media coverage) would make it impossible for a player to be a superstar relative to their peers; I don't see it that way. Regardless of era, technology, nutrition, science, etc. I feel that there has always been below average, average, good, great, etc. players in every era. Thus I consider Mikan to be a superstar in his era and Moses was a superstar in his era. Obviously not all superstars are equal, then or now. But Mikan was so far back and it is doubtful if anyone here ever saw him play live so he seems to be even more underrated than Moses.

[Cavsfansince84]

Using that criteria means that factors outside of basketball (the state of media coverage) would make it impossible for a player to be a superstar relative to their peers; I don't see it that way. Regardless of era, technology, nutrition, science, etc. I feel that there has always been below average, average, good, great, etc. players in every era. Thus I consider Mikan to be a superstar in his era and Moses was a superstar in his era. Obviously not all superstars are equal, then or now. But Mikan was so far back and it is doubtful if anyone here ever saw him play live so he seems to be even more underrated than Moses.

Well of course there is and was. I'm just saying that the degree that players stand out is largely influenced by the media and who they want to elevate which carries over to how the public may perceive them as well. Keep in mind that even common box score stats weren't that available back in the day unless you collected sports cards. Which is also part of why some players from the 00's are overrated now imo ie media attention. There was also very little to almost no statistical analysis in sports before the 90's/00's which is part of why journalists thought their opinions mattered so much.

[JordansBulls]

His passing was very very weak, and his defense is well below a lot of other bigs. Top 20-25 seems more than fair imo.

When you wrote this I was thinking why is this man talking about how the man died and then I thought oh he is talking about how he passed the basketball.

[Jaivl]

His passing was very very weak, and his defense is well below a lot of other bigs. Top 20-25 seems more than fair imo.

When you wrote this I was thinking why is this man talking about how the man died and then I thought oh he is talking about how he passed the basketball.

His passing was weak, but he died as the MVP of a team that had never suffered a MVP death before.

[Stan]

Please, you think a 3x MVP and best player on one the greatest teams ever is the most "underrated" superstar of all time lol? Truth be told, it's not even close to be true.

[penbeast0]

He may be the player, other than Mikan, Cousy, and Maravich, who was considered a superstar in his day but has fallen on the ATG list as the age of analytics took hold.

[falcolombardi]

He may be the player, other than Mikan, Cousy, and Maravich, who was considered a superstar in his day but has fallen on the ATG list as the age of analytics took hold.

I dont think any of those 3 players fell due to analytics. We barely have enough data (plus-minus for example) of them for analytics

Mikan has fell off because his era is dismissed, cousy is old enough to be forgotten about and maravich never led or played in a succesful team

[Owly]

He may be the player, other than Mikan, Cousy, and Maravich, who was considered a superstar in his day but has fallen on the ATG list as the age of analytics took hold.

I dont think any of those 3 players fell due to analytics. We barely have enough data (plus-minus for example) of them for analytics

Mikan has fell off because his era is dismissed, cousy is old enough to be forgotten about and maravich never led or played in a succesful team

I would concur that Mikan "fell off" since his day due to era dismissal/concerns. Well, and of course in a raw sense just due to the increased number of players being compared with.

I think Pen is right that Cousy and Maravich fell off significantly with analytics: Maravich's in particular for just not really standing out from or in some cases standing up to those of his peers (e.g. Westphal); Cousy more complex and partially era related but attempts to account for pace revealing the extent to which Boston won with D and box composites exposing how inefficient and thus limited Cousy was in the playoffs in the title years (better earlier).

I would quibble/amend the omission - I can't be certain because of lacking lists before the late 80s ... but whilst I think Maravich was net overrated during his day I think he was often much maligned too. I think at least some people were aware of his flaws. Then his premature death, and VHS technology and his "Homework" drills and highlights and an iconic look (and being white) swirled together to get him pretty wildly overrated. As such whilst he probably was considered a superstar for some of his days at least, that might hide the complexity of the roller-coaster his perception seems to have been on.

[ronnymac2]

Yes, he is. Honestly, I keep picturing Moses Malone from 1981-1983 and there isn't a player in NBA history, before him or after him, who I think would outplay him in a 7-game series. KAJ, Bird, Magic, and Dr. J shared the court with him and couldn't.

Peak Hakeem Olajuwon is the best player in NBA history, and he learned the core of his offensive repertoire from Moses Malone. Charles Barkley almost beat MJ for MVP by outworking him. He learned that on-court work ethic from Moses Malone.

The whole point of athletics is outworking your opponent on and off the court. Nobody outworked peak Malone. Quite frankly I think he would have embarrassed Chamberlain, O'Neal and Embiid.

If I could see any matchup in a seven-game series...anything I want...it'd be Moses vs. Bill Russell. I think Russell is the only one who stands a chance. He can match Malone 3rd jump for 3rd jump and works hard running up the floor. He's a GOAT-level defensive rebounder who relies on quickness and positioning. It's my all-time fantasy matchup.

[ceoofkobefans]

Funny I actually think he’s one of the most OVERRATED players of all time. I wouldn’t say top 25 lock but I see the argument. He’s a fringe mvp peak and has pretty good longevity for a player that entered the league in the 70s

[70sFan]

Funny I actually think he’s one of the most OVERRATED players of all time. I wouldn’t say top 25 lock but I see the argument. He’s a fringe mvp peak and has pretty good longevity for a player that entered the league in the 70s

Who overrates Moses on consistent basis?

[ceoofkobefans]

Most causal fans and nba media members because “3 MVPs and he made the 1981 finals”

[70sFan]

Most causal fans and nba media members because “3 MVPs and he made the 1981 finals”

Most casual fans have little idea of who Moses was.

[ceoofkobefans]

I agree but they still see the 3 MVPs and are like “yea this is a clear t20 player of all time” when he isn’t one

[70sFan]

I agree but they still see the 3 MVPs and are like “yea this is a clear t20 player of all time” when he isn’t one

I think you can make quite reasonable case for Moses being top 20. I have him just a little lower myself.

[tsherkin]

Most causal fans and nba media members because “3 MVPs and he made the 1981 finals”

Most casual fans have little idea of who Moses was.

Younger fans, anyway. I think anyone who was around when he played (leastwise in his heyday) and professes to enjoy the sport of basketball knows who he was.

[CharityStripe34]

Many consider Moses Top 15-20 all-time so I don't think he's underrated. Overlooked? Probably, since if you ask cool trivia questions like "Who are the only X amount of players to win multiple MVPs?" most hoops fans forget his name.

[ceoofkobefans]

I agree but they still see the 3 MVPs and are like “yea this is a clear t20 player of all time” when he isn’t one

I think you can make quite reasonable case for Moses being top 20. I have him just a little lower myself.

I don’t think so. He’s in the late 20s to early 30s range to me and certainly not a t20 lock