Post random, interesting NBA player facts you feel might be relatively unknown

[henshao]

Not a player fact per se but my favorite what if:

Spoiler:

https://www.basketballnetwork.net/old-school/a-trade-that-almost-changed-nba-history-jordan-hakeem-and-drexler-in-houston

In his autobiography, Living the Dream, Olajuwon mentions an intriguing draft trade offered to the Rockets that would have sent Clyde Drexler and the number two pick in the 1984 NBA draft from Portland in exchange for Ralph Sampson. Rockets were offered Clyde “The Glide” Drexler and the 1984 #2 pick in exchange for Ralph Sampson. They already had the #1 pick in that 1984 draft, which they used to take Hakeem. They could have then used the #2 pick to take Michael Jordan, who famously went #3 to the Bulls after the Blazers took Sam Bowie at #2.

Olajuwon, Drexler and Jordan all on the Rockets from youth would have probably been as or more ridiculous than Shaq/Penny or KD/Westbrook/Harden

[trex_8063]

I saw the Wizards game where Rod Strickland got bored and bought and ate a hot dog from a vendor during play. I wish I'd seen the one where Manute Bol tried to set a pick for Muggsy Bogues and Bogues dribbled through his legs; Warner Wolf must have showed it 20 times on his TV show though.

Not much in the way of trivia.

I tried to find a video of this on YouTube, but was unsuccessful. If you know of a clip, please link it. I would love to see it.
I did find myself watching like an 11-minute Muggsy Bogues tribute video, though. That dude was amazing.

Was walking the dog with the fam last night and telling my wife and son [he's 12] about shortest man to ever play in the NBA......a man who's shorter than either of them. And he didn't just make a brief dabble in the league......he was there nearly 14 seasons, had a legit GOOD career. Again, just amazing.

[f4p]

Not a player fact per se but my favorite what if:

Spoiler:

https://www.basketballnetwork.net/old-school/a-trade-that-almost-changed-nba-history-jordan-hakeem-and-drexler-in-houston

In his autobiography, Living the Dream, Olajuwon mentions an intriguing draft trade offered to the Rockets that would have sent Clyde Drexler and the number two pick in the 1984 NBA draft from Portland in exchange for Ralph Sampson. Rockets were offered Clyde “The Glide” Drexler and the 1984 #2 pick in exchange for Ralph Sampson. They already had the #1 pick in that 1984 draft, which they used to take Hakeem. They could have then used the #2 pick to take Michael Jordan, who famously went #3 to the Bulls after the Blazers took Sam Bowie at #2.

Olajuwon, Drexler and Jordan all on the Rockets from youth would have probably been as or more ridiculous than Shaq/Penny or KD/Westbrook/Harden

just olajuwon plus jordan would already be the greatest duo in league history, especially considering overlaps of primes. not only both top 10 players ever but top 5 playoff performers. considering jordan/pippen won 6 and the best other duo in the league was stockton/malone, it would honestly be hard to see just hakeem/jordan not winning basically every year starting in 1987 (and maybe even 1986) out to 1998. and that's even if they didn't have drexler.

[tsherkin]

Pete Maravich, in a 1974 interview with the Beaver County Times, said: “I don't want to play 10 years in the NBA and die of a heart attack at age 40.” He played pro ball for 10 years, from 1970 to 1980, and died of a heart attack at 40.

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1988-01-07-sp-34024-story.html

OK, this one's a bit freaky too.

I vaguely recall having heard this before, but had forgotten.

Yeah, that one hits the Eerie Meter with some force, heh.

[SHAQ32]

Not only did Robert Horry make the playoffs in every season of his career but he never lost in the first round.

[Laimbeer]

Read on Twitter

Watch on YouTube

[penbeast0]

I read that Bill Laimbeer is one of the few modern players who took a pay cut to play in the NBA as his family were millionaires and he had a job waiting in the family business that paid more.

[falcolombardi]

Bob pettit was born as Robert E. Lee pettit

For those unaware with the name, Robert E lee was the main confederate general in usa civil war (in the secessionist/pro slavery side)

[Ein Sof]

Zion had 41 PER and 20 BPM in college, both all-time records

[O_6]

I think people kind of ignore or just don't really care about Gary Payton's offensive game. Among the non-Magic/Curry PG group of Nash/Stockton/CP3/Kidd/Frazier/Thomas etc. that he's typically placed in, his offensive game is the least "sexy" and memorable of the group. When it comes to Payton, it always goes back to people talking about his defense. But he brought some skills to the offensive end as well.

Payton averaged 21.8 PPG on slightly above league average efficiency from '97 to '03. He averaged 19.7 PPG from '93 to '04. Those aren't amazing numbers, but certainly more than respectable for a PG who is also averaging 8 assists at the same time.

But more specifically, Gary Payton was absolutely elite at scoring inside the paint for a guard. The following are his ranks in terms of "Points in the Paint" for each of these seasons...

1997: 2nd
1998: 12th
1999: 5th
2000: 6th
2001: 6th
2002: 4th
2003: 5th

This is just ridiculous paint scoring volume for a point guard. For reference, Tony Parker finished in the top 10 for PITP during 3 seasons with his best finish at 8th ('06 and '09). Russell Westbrook finished Top 10 for PITP during 5 seasons with his best finish at 3rd ('20) but he had no other seasons ranked better than 7th. Allen Iverson finished in the top 10 for PITP during 3 seasons with his best finish at 8th ('05). Chris Paul finished 12th and 18th in '08 and '09 respectively, those are his only seasons in the Top 45 of paint scoring. Jason Kidd finished 34th in '99 and Nash finished 38th in '03, their only Top 50 appearances in Paint Scoring. Billups never finished in the Top 100. Kobe finished in the top 10 one time (8th in '02).

Bottom-line, Gary Payton got buckets inside. Even guys like Parker/Westbrook/Iverson who are known for getting inside a ton didn't quite match up to The Glove in that area. He was perennially in the Top 5 mix for an extended stretch. His ability to post-up smaller PGs, his open court game, and his driving led to Payton being a really unique scorer for a PG.

2nd, 2nd, 8th, 3rd, 3rd, 6th, 9th, 10th, 5th... these are the Sonics' ORtg rankings from '94 to '02 when Payton was there running the show. That is a really great stretch of team offense with different casts that Payton led. And I'm sure his unique ability to inverse the defense with his paint scoring had a positive spacing effect that led to better looks for his team.

20 points, 8 assists, best paint scorer in the league for a guard, average to slightly above average efficiency, consistently led elite offensive teams

I think Gary Payton is underrated or underappreciated offensively. Ironically, I think he's probably a hair overrated on defense but overall I think he deserves some more love. He was a two-way stud in his prime.

[tsherkin]

I think Gary Payton is underrated or underappreciated offensively. Ironically, I think he's probably a hair overrated on defense but overall I think he deserves some more love. He was a two-way stud in his prime.

Scoring inside doesn't mean a ton compared to overall scoring profile, though. In the end, he was a decent but mostly unremarkable scorer and a good overall offensive weapon. Rates well enough in WOWYR and BPM. Unremarkable ScoreVal. Looks quite solid in Box Creation and again solid in Passer Rating. Etc, etc. He doesn't feel underrated. His teams were often pretty good on O and peaked well. He is more overshadowed by true offensive ATGs than underrated, and people may be remembering his weak perimeter game as a portability issue beyond his own era, particularly if their last memories of him are from his time in Miami.

[O_6]

I think Gary Payton is underrated or underappreciated offensively. Ironically, I think he's probably a hair overrated on defense but overall I think he deserves some more love. He was a two-way stud in his prime.

Scoring inside doesn't mean a ton compared to overall scoring profile, though. In the end, he was a decent but mostly unremarkable scorer and a good overall offensive weapon. Rates well enough in WOWYR and BPM. Unremarkable ScoreVal. Looks quite solid in Box Creation and again solid in Passer Rating. Etc, etc. He doesn't feel underrated. His teams were often pretty good on O and peaked well. He is more overshadowed by true offensive ATGs than underrated, and people may be remembering his weak perimeter game as a portability issue beyond his own era, particularly if their last memories of him are from his time in Miami.

I disagree, being able to score inside holds a certain value and double that when it comes from a perimeter main ball-handler/passer. That's literally LeBron's greatest strength over anything else.

Imagine how much better Kemp was inside because Payton was so adept at getting in there himself. Kemp was a beast, don't get me wrong, but Payton definitely knew how to take advantage of his skills. Their alley oop compilation is just dirty. Payton being a transition stud also led to some of those great highlights.

I rank CP3/Nash/Kidd/Frazier over Payton. Peak Frazier over all of them peak wise, CP3 best overall, Nash best on offense, Kidd best on defense/transition. Payton carved out his spot though and he's right there with that group.

A CP3 vs. Payton playoff matchup would be one of my favorites all-time. Would Payton's size and attitude get the best of CP3? Would CP3 be too quick and too skilled? Would be classic, especially if we're talking Blake Clips and Kemp Sonics.

[penbeast0]

I think people kind of ignore or just don't really care about Gary Payton's offensive game. Among the non-Magic/Curry PG group of Nash/Stockton/CP3/Kidd/Frazier/Thomas etc. that he's typically placed in, his offensive game is the least "sexy" and memorable of the group. When it comes to Payton, it always goes back to people talking about his defense. But he brought some skills to the offensive end as well.

Payton averaged 21.8 PPG on slightly above league average efficiency from '97 to '03. He averaged 19.7 PPG from '93 to '04. Those aren't amazing numbers, but certainly more than respectable for a PG who is also averaging 8 assists at the same time.

But more specifically, Gary Payton was absolutely elite at scoring inside the paint for a guard. The following are his ranks in terms of "Points in the Paint" for each of these seasons...

1997: 2nd
1998: 12th
1999: 5th
2000: 6th
2001: 6th
2002: 4th
2003: 5th

This is just ridiculous paint scoring volume for a point guard. For reference, Tony Parker finished in the top 10 for PITP during 3 seasons with his best finish at 8th ('06 and '09). Russell Westbrook finished Top 10 for PITP during 5 seasons with his best finish at 3rd ('20) but he had no other seasons ranked better than 7th. Allen Iverson finished in the top 10 for PITP during 3 seasons with his best finish at 8th ('05). Chris Paul finished 12th and 18th in '08 and '09 respectively, those are his only seasons in the Top 45 of paint scoring. Jason Kidd finished 34th in '99 and Nash finished 38th in '03, their only Top 50 appearances in Paint Scoring. Billups never finished in the Top 100. Kobe finished in the top 10 one time (8th in '02).

Bottom-line, Gary Payton got buckets inside. Even guys like Parker/Westbrook/Iverson who are known for getting inside a ton didn't quite match up to The Glove in that area. He was perennially in the Top 5 mix for an extended stretch. His ability to post-up smaller PGs, his open court game, and his driving led to Payton being a really unique scorer for a PG.

2nd, 2nd, 8th, 3rd, 3rd, 6th, 9th, 10th, 5th... these are the Sonics' ORtg rankings from '94 to '02 when Payton was there running the show. That is a really great stretch of team offense with different casts that Payton led. And I'm sure his unique ability to inverse the defense with his paint scoring had a positive spacing effect that led to better looks for his team.

20 points, 8 assists, best paint scorer in the league for a guard, average to slightly above average efficiency, consistently led elite offensive teams

I think Gary Payton is underrated or underappreciated offensively. Ironically, I think he's probably a hair overrated on defense but overall I think he deserves some more love. He was a two-way stud in his prime.

Did you read the title of the thread? This isn't a post random defense of a favorite player thread but more a fun trivia thread.

[tsherkin]

I disagree, being able to score inside holds a certain value and double that when it comes from a perimeter main ball-handler/passer. That's literally LeBron's greatest strength over anything else.

I would agree if it led to efficient offense and if your lack of perimeter offense wasn't a noteworthy concern. I see where you're coming from, in that it tends to lead to efficient buckets, higher draw rates and decent opportunities to draw extra coverage and create kick-out opportunities. But then you'd expect to see that repped a little better in some of his passing metrics and his scoring efficiency.

Maybe I'm wrong, maybe there's more value than what I'm affording this, but when I look at a player whose scoring profile is relatively limited and they aren't dominating relative efficiency, I find it a little challenging to give that player too much more respect than what their basic scoring profile suggests. Particularly when that player's team offenses tended to do better when he scored a little less than he did at his peak.

[falcolombardi]

I disagree, being able to score inside holds a certain value and double that when it comes from a perimeter main ball-handler/passer. That's literally LeBron's greatest strength over anything else.

I would agree if it led to efficient offense and if your lack of perimeter offense wasn't a noteworthy concern. I see where you're coming from, in that it tends to lead to efficient buckets, higher draw rates and decent opportunities to draw extra coverage and create kick-out opportunities. But then you'd expect to see that repped a little better in some of his passing metrics and his scoring efficiency.

Maybe I'm wrong, maybe there's more value than what I'm affording this, but when I look at a player whose scoring profile is relatively limited and they aren't dominating relative efficiency, I find it a little challenging to give that player too much more respect than what their basic scoring profile suggests. Particularly when that player's team offenses tended to do better when he scored a little less than he did at his peak.

I am unsure there

A player team doing bettwr when he scores less may sometimes be an "correlation is not causation" thingh. As the better teammates you have, the least you will be asked to carry the scoring load

The inverse correlatiom between scoring volume and team success applies to even the best superstars

[tsherkin]

A player team doing bettwr when he scores less may sometimes be an "correlation is not causation" thingh. As the better teammates you have, the least you will be asked to carry the scoring load

I agree that it is not a rigorous assessment. I am questioning the idea that someone with a limited scoring profile whose efficiency isn't dominant should be treated as being better than his basic numbers suggest when that impact doesn't appear to be felt quite so much in the relevant metrics.

Simply because the teams did better when he scored less doesn't account for Kemp's departure to Cleveland, for example, and that's not a trivial factor either.

[SickMother]

Gene Conley won three straight NBA Championships with the Boston Celtics in 1959, 1960 and 1961.

He also won the World Series as a pitcher on the Milwaukee Braves in 1957. The Braves were in the 1958 World Series too, but lost to the Yankees.

Almost had five straight rings in two different sports. Believe he is still the only player ever with rings in two of MLB, NBA or NFL though.