General Blue Jays Thread

[Parataxis]

Espi's an All-Star!!! <3

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[polo007]

Scott Mitchell: Toronto Blue Jays’ prospect pipeline about to get important influx of talent - TSN.ca

TORONTO — Thanks to a pair of savvy one-year deals and the career years that followed for Marcus Semien and Robbie Ray, the Toronto Blue Jays are in an enviable spot heading into the 2022 MLB Draft.

When Sunday’s first round starts, the Jays and third-year scouting director Shane Farrell will have pick Nos. 23, 60, 77 and 78 — the latter two being the compensation picks the club received for Semien and Ray walking — to play with, allowing them to start restocking a farm system that’s been thinned out by trades and graduations.

While normally the Major League Baseball draft is an exercise in projection and extreme patience, there’s also a now element for the Jays and GM Ross Atkins.

With the MLB trade deadline set for Aug. 2, this draft haul is going to give the Blue Jays more leeway when it comes to packaging up prospects currently in the system for immediate help.

“All indications from preliminary discussions are that we have the depth and talent to be in play throughout the potential trade market,” Atkins said of initial trade talks. “Of course, we need to remain disciplined as we weigh those trade opportunities against how strongly we feel about the players in our system.”

At the top of the prospect pipeline sit a potential cornerstone catcher in Gabriel Moreno, a left side infielder with plenty of power — and strikeouts — in Orelvis Martinez and an emerging left-hander in Ricky Tiedemann, who Farrell and the Jays stole at pick No. 91 in last year’s draft.

Some intriguing names beyond that top trio include 2018 first-round pick Jordan Groshans, breakout outfielder Gabriel Martinez and right-handers Yosver Zulueta, Nick Frasso, Irv Carter, Sem Robberse and Dahian Santos.

Depending on the magnitude of the trade, teams often identify lower level names that may not appear on the surface to be obvious trade chips.

“We feel very good about the depth of our system, with a strong group of prospects whose names may be more recognizable,” Atkins said. “At the same time, we are excited about a number of development stories this year among lesser known prospects.”

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[polo007]

Steve Phillips: Why the Toronto Blue Jays should trade for Juan Soto - TSN.ca

This includes the Toronto Blue Jays. My initial thought was that he didn’t make sense for Toronto, but I have changed my mind. Soto in the same batting order as George Springer, Vladimir Guerrero Jr., Bo Bichette and Teoscar Hernandez would create a fearsome lineup. Soto’s extraordinary patience and plate discipline would be extremely helpful for Guerrero, Bichette and Hernandez. His approach could rub off on the rest of the lineup, which is a perfect fit for a player of Soto’s age and experience.

My initial hesitancy for the Jays stemmed from the reality that they likely couldn’t sign Soto and still sign Guerrero and Bichette and Hernandez for the long term. But so what? Having Soto may provide the Jays options on how to spend their money.

And even if Soto goes to free agency, the two-plus years he will have played in Toronto could provide the incentive for him to want to re-sign there as a free agent. If the Jays realize they can’t sign Guerrero to a long-term deal, they could sign Soto and let Guerrero walk away. Toronto likely can’t afford both, but it is good to have options.

The other thing to remember is that two-plus years is a long time. If the Jays were to acquire Soto in the next 10 days, there is nothing that says they couldn’t trade him down the road. Of course, the hope would be that they would get him for three playoff runs on the way to three World Series championships. But if things don’t go the way the Jays hope, they could always trade him at the deadline next year, or the year after, or anytime in between.

So, what are we really talking about?

Make the trade to acquire him and let him lead you to compete for three straight championships or cut your losses at any time and recoup some or all of the prospects it took to acquire him in the first place. The difference between the acquisition cost and what they could get back later if they decide to trade him is well worth the opportunity to chase a World Series or two.

The Jays would likely have to include infielder Orelvis Martinez (currently in Double-A New Hampshire), plus catcher Gabriel Moreno and pitcher Nate Pearson (both currently in Triple-A Buffalo) and possibly Cavan Biggio. Yes, it’s a significant package that would hurt some, but you don’t get a superstar for nothing.

After making the Soto deal, I would trade a package built around outfielder Lourdes Gurriel Jr., who has two years of control left after this season, to acquire pitching.

Gurriel may get the Jays a package that includes starting pitcher Martin Perez and reliever Joe Barlow or Brock Burke from the Texas Rangers. Or maybe he could help the Jays get starting pitcher Noah Syndergaard and relievers Aaron Loup and Ryan Tepera from the Los Angeles Angels. Or lefty relievers Gregory Soto and Andrew Chafin and righty Michael Fulmer from the Detroit Tigers, who need offence. Or starting pitcher Pablo Lopez from the Miami Marlins.

This has a chance to be a remarkable trade deadline. The Soto sweepstakes have everyone drooling because he is such a difference maker. The Jays can be in the mix, but they will have to beat out the Yankees, Red Sox, Mets, Dodgers, Giants, and Mariners, among others, to get him.

[Schad]

Moreno, Orelvis, Pearson and maaaaaaybe Biggio? That's an absolutely atrocious package. I'd imagine that the response to that offer would be stunned silence.

[JTT]

Moreno, Orelvis, Pearson and maaaaaaybe Biggio? That's an absolutely atrocious package. I'd imagine that the response to that offer would be stunned silence.

Agreed. Although, not sure Soto can get the package some have claimed. A mid season trade for a player of his quality seems unlikely but if the Nats are determined to go down this road, who knows?

I have A hard time with the Jays being a suitable trade partner. Phillips talked about it a little, but how do you extend all of Vladdy, Bo and Soto all at the same time? I don’t think the Jays do, especially when their still carrying the big contracts of Gaussman , Springer and Berrios.

So their question becomes’ what do you give up for two and a half years before losing at least one of the three of Bo, VLaddy or Soto ( In this case, I would imagine it would be Bo or Vladdy to hit free agency)? Would the Jays do Moreno, Orelvis, Tiedemann, and Gurriel? Even then, would the Nats consider an offer built around Moreno when they already have Keibert Ruiz?

If the Jays were involved, it just seems like an off-season trade built around Bo+Gurriel would seem more likely. That way, they would only have two very expensive extensions to deal with.

[Asianiac_24]

I’d imagine a package for Soto starts with either Bo Bichette or Kirk, along with the package above. I prefer giving them Bo as there’s no way we can keep all of them anyway

[Randle McMurphy]

Pearson has barely pitched for three years now and has been terrible when he has. I'm assuming Phillips doesn't know that?

[bluerap23]

Moreno, Orelvis, Pearson and maaaaaaybe Biggio? That's an absolutely atrocious package. I'd imagine that the response to that offer would be stunned silence.

Agreed. Although, not sure Soto can get the package some have claimed. A mid season trade for a player of his quality seems unlikely but if the Nats are determined to go down this road, who knows?

I have A hard time with the Jays being a suitable trade partner. Phillips talked about it a little, but how do you extend all of Vladdy, Bo and Soto all at the same time? I don’t think the Jays do, especially when their still carrying the big contracts of Gaussman , Springer and Berrios.

So their question becomes’ what do you give up for two and a half years before losing at least one of the three of Bo, VLaddy or Soto ( In this case, I would imagine it would be Bo or Vladdy to hit free agency)? Would the Jays do Moreno, Orelvis, Tiedemann, and Gurriel? Even then, would the Nats consider an offer built around Moreno when they already have Keibert Ruiz?

If the Jays were involved, it just seems like an off-season trade built around Bo+Gurriel would seem more likely. That way, they would only have two very expensive extensions to deal with.

Bo package makes sense. But if you do it you better be 100 that you are going to be able to keep Soto

[EH15]

Would you guys do Bo+Moreno+Orelvis+Groshans

Soto is only 1 less year than Bo. At that point, wouldn't it be better to just pay Soto? It's no guarantee Bo extends either.

[JTT]

Not sure the Nats would be interested in one shortstop plus two prospect shortstops and a catcher which is their one position that looks settled for the future. I also think it’s possible that Groshans value has diminished a lot recently. There have been pretty much zero extra base hits in that bat ( 8 doubles and 1 home run all year.) Orelvis has also seen his performance drop, but his problem has been strikeouts.

A trade like that would also leave the Jays thin at short on the major league level and their top shortstop prospect being Miguel Hiraldo at high A

They would also have a crowded outfield which would inevitably see Kirk get less at bats at DH

[JTT]

Would you guys do Bo+Moreno+Orelvis+Groshans

Soto is only 1 less year than Bo. At that point, wouldn't it be better to just pay Soto? It's no guarantee Bo extends either.

I absolutely think, yes, they would just pay Soto. They (hopefully) wouldn’t trade all that prospect capital for an unsigned Soto. But that would have major ramifications for who else they have the ability (willingness) to pay.

[JTT]

On a side note, what’s going on with Blue Jay first round drafted shortstops? Both Groshans and Austin Martin seem to have become slap hitters.

[johanliebert]

On a side note, what’s going on with Blue Jay first round drafted shortstops? Both Groshans and Austin Martin seem to have become slap hitters.

Once that shift is gone i hope slap hitters have value again. These nerds have killed the game what we see now isnt entertaining.

[JTT]

Lol. Unless you had the defensive values and speed of an Otis Nixon, I don’t think that slap hitters ever held much value. Hitting the ball hard enough to find gaps in the outfield would be great.

Besides, slap hitters should benefit from the shift. Outlawing it just reinforces the three true outcomes.

[bluerap23]

Would you guys do Bo+Moreno+Orelvis+Groshans

Soto is only 1 less year than Bo. At that point, wouldn't it be better to just pay Soto? It's no guarantee Bo extends either.

No I wouldn’t give up our only 3 viable Ss nor would that be necessary.

[Schad]

Lol. Unless you had the defensive values and speed of an Otis Nixon, I don’t think that slap hitters ever held much value. Hitting the ball hard enough to find gaps in the outfield would be great.

Besides, slap hitters should benefit from the shift. Outlawing it just reinforces the three true outcomes.

All of this. And Otis Nixon was never a good hitter overall. Insofar as he had offensive value, it was mostly derived from his ability to work walks, and his speed on the bases once he had done so.

And, I should mention, I say this despite genuinely modeling my swing after Otis Nixon.