Donovan Mitchell Thread #6 - Something might actually happen in this one!!!!!!

[Jeff Van Gully]

lol shout out Zach Lowe

Watch on YouTube

well done, zach lowe

[Jeff Van Gully]

True story. A Knicks PF receives the ball out near the 3pt line and a 6'-4" defender is switched on to him. One scenario: two different results.

1. Knick's PF automatically switches into tunnel vision "I must shoot this ball no matter WHAT because mismatch!". The smaller guy is a good defender and holds his ground....Knicks PF is hell-bent on trying to dribble past the defender and turns it over.....or tries to back him down, fails, and forces & bricks a contested long 2 with one or two defenders in his face... or realizes he can't get a comfortable shot after completely running down the shot clock and finally passes it with 3 seconds left: shot clock violation or bailout air ball.

2. In the same situation, a different Knicks PF, aware of his limitations, simply passes the ball with no hesitation and looks to move without the ball towards the paint for a quick score...or passes it and the ball quickly finds its way to a guard that has a big switched on to him. Guard torches the big and scores easily, or collapses the defense, resulting in a Knicks high percentage shot in the paint or wide open 3 ball and the Knicks score.

The same scenario plays out multiple times during the course of the game....

Who is PF in outcome #1 and who is PF in outcome #2?

You're ignoring the other scernario where PF #2 passes the ball, moves, goes to post, receives the ball posting up the 6'4" guard and get bodied out of position and balance.
And no, I don't mean Porzingis.

Obi is decent, but he has his flaws.

love obi. PF1 also has an all-nba season in which he demonstrated the ability to manage both scenarios appropriately. i don't hate the idea of giving him a chance to find that again. even if you want to trade him, that's useful.

[NoDopeOnSundays]

True story. A Knicks PF receives the ball out near the 3pt line and a 6'-4" defender is switched on to him. One scenario: two different results.

1. Knick's PF automatically switches into tunnel vision "I must shoot this ball no matter WHAT because mismatch!". The smaller guy is a good defender and holds his ground....Knicks PF is hell-bent on trying to dribble past the defender and turns it over.....or tries to back him down, fails, and forces & bricks a contested long 2 with one or two defenders in his face... or realizes he can't get a comfortable shot after completely running down the shot clock and finally passes it with 3 seconds left: shot clock violation or bailout air ball.

2. In the same situation, a different Knicks PF, aware of his limitations, simply passes the ball with no hesitation and looks to move without the ball towards the paint for a quick score...or passes it and the ball quickly finds its way to a guard that has a big switched on to him. Guard torches the big and scores easily, or collapses the defense, resulting in a Knicks high percentage shot in the paint or wide open 3 ball and the Knicks score.

The same scenario plays out multiple times during the course of the game....

Who is PF in outcome #1 and who is PF in outcome #2?

You're ignoring the other scernario where PF #2 passes the ball, moves, goes to post, receives the ball posting up the 6'4" guard and get bodied out of position and balance.
And no, I don't mean Porzingis.

Obi is decent, but he has his flaws.

love obi. PF1 also has an all-nba season in which he demonstrated the ability to manage both scenarios appropriately. i don't hate the idea of giving him a chance to find that again. even if you want to trade him, that's useful.

Problem with that all-nba season is that he was top 10 in touches per game, he had the ball more than Giannis, Embiid, Lillard, DONOVAN, Tatum, Curry and a host of other players and of course no fans. I don't think he can play without the ball, and I don't think he'd be able to simply get out of the way of plays and let them develop on their own.


Randle's stats are almost in lock step with his touches, meaning he's far less effective when the offense isn't revolving around him completely. Brunson and Mitchell have both shown they can play off the ball, both of them averaged less touches per game this season than Randle did. But here, you'd want to see them kick that up a notch and have the ball more than they did on their previous teams. So lets say Brunson and Mitchell end up combing for 155 touches per game, that would knock Randle down into the low 60s for touches per game, and his stats will be nowhere near All-nba level.

[Chanel Bomber]

[robillionaire]

You're ignoring the other scernario where PF #2 passes the ball, moves, goes to post, receives the ball posting up the 6'4" guard and get bodied out of position and balance.
And no, I don't mean Porzingis.

Obi is decent, but he has his flaws.

love obi. PF1 also has an all-nba season in which he demonstrated the ability to manage both scenarios appropriately. i don't hate the idea of giving him a chance to find that again. even if you want to trade him, that's useful.

Problem with that all-nba season is that he was top 10 in touches per game, he had the ball more than Giannis, Embiid, Lillard, DONOVAN, Tatum, Curry and a host of other players and of course no fans. I don't think he can play without the ball, and I don't think he'd be able to simply get out of the way of plays and let them develop on their own.


Randle's stats are almost in lock step with his touches, meaning he's far less effective when the offense isn't revolving around him completely. Brunson and Mitchell have both shown they can play off the ball, both of them averaged less touches per game this season than Randle did. But here, you'd want to see them kick that up a notch and have the ball more than they did on their previous teams. So lets say Brunson and Mitchell end up combing for 155 touches per game, that would knock Randle down into the low 60s for touches per game, and his stats will be nowhere near All-nba level.

that's fine, we wouldn't want him carrying a team on his back anymore and that's the only way he can be an all NBA player. we should hope he averages like 16 and 8 with 3 or 4 assists a game, to me that would be good from the pf position. Maybe that's not worth what they're paying him but that's about what you'd want out of a 3rd or 4th option, you'd basically want his stats to drop like chris bosh 2013 2014 after he joined the heat, he wasn't putting up the numbers he did in Toronto but that was good for the team. I think there's a better chance randle respects players like brunson and donovan to let them run the show

[TrueWarrior]

Say what u want about Obi, but he’s a 6’9” athletic freak, who can score with ease off ball and shows signs as a shooter/defender. He still has some upside. The small guys can be replaced more easily.

[robillionaire]

damn ima have to go IQ, Frank, RJ, Knox, Jericho

[Priggy Smalls]

What an awful franchise

Quick
Shump
Fields
Sims
Jorts or knox I guess? Doesn't really matter.

[Ghetto Gospel]

frank
thj
rj
chandler
sims

i dont feel good about this team

[Chanel Bomber]

frank
thj
rj
chandler
sims

i dont feel good about this team

You shouldn't

[Ghetto Gospel]

frank
thj
rj
chandler
sims

i dont feel good about this team

You shouldn't

i was getting way too dizzy thinking about thj vs shump, i rly liked shumps defenses when he was young and here and think it would be good for this team, but i'll take the real basketball player

[Richard4444]

Where are the latest unverified juicy rumors on Donovan"s trade from completely unknown sources???

[Guano]

I see you trying to be slick with gallo for 50 and chandler for 25

[Iron Mantis]

True story. A Knicks PF receives the ball out near the 3pt line and a 6'-4" defender is switched on to him. One scenario: two different results.

1. Knick's PF automatically switches into tunnel vision "I must shoot this ball no matter WHAT because mismatch!". The smaller guy is a good defender and holds his ground....Knicks PF is hell-bent on trying to dribble past the defender and turns it over.....or tries to back him down, fails, and forces & bricks a contested long 2 with one or two defenders in his face... or realizes he can't get a comfortable shot after completely running down the shot clock and finally passes it with 3 seconds left: shot clock violation or bailout air ball.

2. In the same situation, a different Knicks PF, aware of his limitations, simply passes the ball with no hesitation and looks to move without the ball towards the paint for a quick score...or passes it and the ball quickly finds its way to a guard that has a big switched on to him. Guard torches the big and scores easily, or collapses the defense, resulting in a Knicks high percentage shot in the paint or wide open 3 ball and the Knicks score.

The same scenario plays out multiple times during the course of the game....

Who is PF in outcome #1 and who is PF in outcome #2?

You're ignoring the other scernario where PF #2 passes the ball, moves, goes to post, receives the ball posting up the 6'4" guard and get bodied out of position and balance.
And no, I don't mean Porzingis.

Obi is decent, but he has his flaws.

Every player has flaws, but the total sum of one player is positive and the other, negative.

The scenario with PF #2 you mentioned is a strength issue, not an IQ or ego issue. So in your mentioned scenario, he generally passes it and doesn't force it..If so, it doesn't happen to the extent that it's detrimental to the team. One reason he is a career + player.

PF1 predictably plays out his scenario to the team's detriment over and over and over and especially at momentum-shifting moments.

[Jeff Van Gully]

You're ignoring the other scernario where PF #2 passes the ball, moves, goes to post, receives the ball posting up the 6'4" guard and get bodied out of position and balance.
And no, I don't mean Porzingis.

Obi is decent, but he has his flaws.

love obi. PF1 also has an all-nba season in which he demonstrated the ability to manage both scenarios appropriately. i don't hate the idea of giving him a chance to find that again. even if you want to trade him, that's useful.

Problem with that all-nba season is that he was top 10 in touches per game, he had the ball more than Giannis, Embiid, Lillard, DONOVAN, Tatum, Curry and a host of other players and of course no fans. I don't think he can play without the ball, and I don't think he'd be able to simply get out of the way of plays and let them develop on their own.


Randle's stats are almost in lock step with his touches, meaning he's far less effective when the offense isn't revolving around him completely. Brunson and Mitchell have both shown they can play off the ball, both of them averaged less touches per game this season than Randle did. But here, you'd want to see them kick that up a notch and have the ball more than they did on their previous teams. So lets say Brunson and Mitchell end up combing for 155 touches per game, that would knock Randle down into the low 60s for touches per game, and his stats will be nowhere near All-nba level.

great point and data to back it up.

i don't necessarily care about randle's stats or him becoming all-nba again. i think he could be valuable as is if he is going to play winning ball. i do get the point that he doesn't seem to play as well or as engaged when he's not the show. could be great if he could find that player within the team structure.

i like what we have without the mitchell trade. i don't see it as some kind of championship contender, but something that can grow. we should do the addition by subtraction thing if randle is going to stifle that growth. i don't think he... WANTS to?

[Jeff Van Gully]

love obi. PF1 also has an all-nba season in which he demonstrated the ability to manage both scenarios appropriately. i don't hate the idea of giving him a chance to find that again. even if you want to trade him, that's useful.

Problem with that all-nba season is that he was top 10 in touches per game, he had the ball more than Giannis, Embiid, Lillard, DONOVAN, Tatum, Curry and a host of other players and of course no fans. I don't think he can play without the ball, and I don't think he'd be able to simply get out of the way of plays and let them develop on their own.


Randle's stats are almost in lock step with his touches, meaning he's far less effective when the offense isn't revolving around him completely. Brunson and Mitchell have both shown they can play off the ball, both of them averaged less touches per game this season than Randle did. But here, you'd want to see them kick that up a notch and have the ball more than they did on their previous teams. So lets say Brunson and Mitchell end up combing for 155 touches per game, that would knock Randle down into the low 60s for touches per game, and his stats will be nowhere near All-nba level.

that's fine, we wouldn't want him carrying a team on his back anymore and that's the only way he can be an all NBA player. we should hope he averages like 16 and 8 with 3 or 4 assists a game, to me that would be good from the pf position. Maybe that's not worth what they're paying him but that's about what you'd want out of a 3rd or 4th option, you'd basically want his stats to drop like chris bosh 2013 2014 after he joined the heat, he wasn't putting up the numbers he did in Toronto but that was good for the team. I think there's a better chance randle respects players like brunson and donovan to let them run the show

yeah. wish i had read this first. something like this.

[god shammgod]

jesus. look at that chart. i'm just gonna keep my dollar.

[Jeff Van Gully]

i have no words

[Jeff Van Gully]

jesus. look at that chart. i'm just gonna keep my dollar.

i don't even know where to start. some of these placements.

[DaGawd]

lol shout out Zach Lowe

Watch on YouTube

well done, zach lowe

he said he was gonna throw up in his mouth before he said us.. points deducted