Let Danny Ainge Rot

[ProcessDoctor]

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I can’t imagine what value Brooklyn and Utah would be getting out of this. If KD and Mitchell are in the same trade, Mitchell ought to be going to Brooklyn.

[D1SGRUNTL3D]

It’s not even about fun… it’s the market being ruined but we are the NY Knicks, we attract players. Minnesota had to give up what they gave up to get a player of goberts level… they arent signing top tier free agents.

Who the hell have you attracted, or signed?

You’re coming off a little angry in this thread, man. Have a Snickers.

I wish. I come off as angry but it’s supposed to be laughing at the guy who said the Knicks attract players

[Nate505]

[list=][/list]

Unless the Jazz have other teams trying to give them the farm for Mitchell I don't know why the Knicks would raise their offer. The idea is to get the player you want with the lowest possible package going the other way. No reason to outbid yourself.

The Knicks are bidding against the Jazz keeping Mitchell for another year or two.

Yeah, I know everyone here (and many elsewhere, including a lot of jazz fans) think this trade has to be made, but I don't know why. He's under contract for three more years.

[TroyD92]

Mitchell seems like the perfect tank commander to me lol

[OrangeBlueSkies]

Who the hell have you attracted, or signed?

You’re coming off a little angry in this thread, man. Have a Snickers.

I wish. I come off as angry but it’s supposed to be laughing at the guy who said the Knicks attract players

We have a market that attracts players . Melo, Stat
Durants actual first choice … who has Minnesota signed over the seasons ?

[OrangeBlueSkies]

[list=][/list]

Unless the Jazz have other teams trying to give them the farm for Mitchell I don't know why the Knicks would raise their offer. The idea is to get the player you want with the lowest possible package going the other way. No reason to outbid yourself.

The Knicks are bidding against the Jazz keeping Mitchell for another year or two.

Yeah, I know everyone here (and many elsewhere, including a lot of jazz fans) think this trade has to be made, but I don't know why. He's under contract for three more years.

Exactly, which is why I’m good. Let Danny hold on to him. There’s a deal to be made that can benefit both sides…

[bisme37]

[list=][/list]

Unless the Jazz have other teams trying to give them the farm for Mitchell I don't know why the Knicks would raise their offer. The idea is to get the player you want with the lowest possible package going the other way. No reason to outbid yourself.

The Knicks are bidding against the Jazz keeping Mitchell for another year or two.

Yeah, I know everyone here (and many elsewhere, including a lot of jazz fans) think this trade has to be made, but I don't know why. He's under contract for three more years.

The Jazz don't have to trade him. It just makes sense to move him and rebuild if that's what they're doing. No reason to have a really good player ruining your tank.

[Dick Tate]

You’re coming off a little angry in this thread, man. Have a Snickers.

I wish. I come off as angry but it’s supposed to be laughing at the guy who said the Knicks attract players

We have a market that attracts players . Melo, Stat
Durants actual first choice … who has Minnesota signed over the seasons ?

If you’re using the T-wolves as your counter-argument comparative, you’ve already lost the argument.
Durant’s first choice…

[Dick Tate]

First of all, as good as Mitchell is, I am not one who believes that the Jazz will be able to utterly clean out the Knicks (or anyone else) in exchange for him. Some of my fellow Jazz fans may need to temper their expectations a little.

With that said:

If these assets weren't so valuable, why is Ainge so adamant about grabbing as many as he can?

is not a great argument in favour of the Knicks' assets. If these nickels I have aren't so valuable, why are you demanding 20 of them for your dollar?

Then why is he even bothering to literally give up his most valuable asset for those same nickels?

It’s like playing nickel slots. Gotta have a lotta nickels if you want a chance to win.

[JimmyPlopper]

You’re coming off a little angry in this thread, man. Have a Snickers.

I wish. I come off as angry but it’s supposed to be laughing at the guy who said the Knicks attract players

We have a market that attracts players . Melo, Stat
Durants actual first choice … who has Minnesota signed over the seasons ?

Ever heard of Joe Smith?

[Catchall]

[list=][/list]

The Knicks are bidding against the Jazz keeping Mitchell for another year or two.

Yeah, I know everyone here (and many elsewhere, including a lot of jazz fans) think this trade has to be made, but I don't know why. He's under contract for three more years.

The Jazz don't have to trade him. It just makes sense to move him and rebuild if that's what they're doing. No reason to have a really good player ruining your tank.

The problem with the Jazz is that their development timeline is out of whack. They need to flush out the old players, gather assets and rebuild with young talent that's aligned agewise. This theoretically creates a 7 or 8-year window to build a new iteration of the team.

With Mitchell only having a few years left on his current deal, it doesn't give the Jazz enough runway to really rebuild properly. In the meantime, Mitchell isn't going to enjoy losing a lot of games. So it makes some sense for both sides to move on.

[JimmyPlopper]

[list=][/list]
Yeah, I know everyone here (and many elsewhere, including a lot of jazz fans) think this trade has to be made, but I don't know why. He's under contract for three more years.

The Jazz don't have to trade him. It just makes sense to move him and rebuild if that's what they're doing. No reason to have a really good player ruining your tank.

The problem with the Jazz is that their development timeline is out of whack. They need to flush out the old players, gather assets and rebuild with young talent that's aligned agewise. This theoretically creates a 7 or 8-year window to build a new iteration of the team.

With Mitchell only having a few years left on his current deal, it doesn't give the Jazz enough runway to really rebuild properly. In the meantime, Mitchell isn't going to enjoy losing a lot of games. So it makes some sense for both sides to move on.

This is precisely why I see the Jazz as the motivated sellers at this point. Cats out of the bag after the Gobert and O'Neal deals. This is a rebuilding ship and that's not an ideal spot for a star coming into his prime.

Knicks are heading in the right direction slowly and have less of an urgency to do something right now. Knicks would be wise to allow some time to pass until Jazz come back to the table with better offer. Time is on the side of NYK

[Catchall]

The Jazz don't have to trade him. It just makes sense to move him and rebuild if that's what they're doing. No reason to have a really good player ruining your tank.

The problem with the Jazz is that their development timeline is out of whack. They need to flush out the old players, gather assets and rebuild with young talent that's aligned agewise. This theoretically creates a 7 or 8-year window to build a new iteration of the team.

With Mitchell only having a few years left on his current deal, it doesn't give the Jazz enough runway to really rebuild properly. In the meantime, Mitchell isn't going to enjoy losing a lot of games. So it makes some sense for both sides to move on.

This is precisely why I see the Jazz as the motivated sellers at this point. Cats out of the bag after the Gobert and O'Neal deals. This is a rebuilding ship and that's not an ideal spot for a star coming into his prime.

Knicks are heading in the right direction slowly and have less of an urgency to do something right now. Knicks would be wise to allow some time to pass until Jazz come back to the table with better offer. Time is on the side of NYK

Jazz don't need to move Mitchell this offseason. They can wait until the trade deadline or next offseason. They can tell the Knicks to come back with a top-10 pick in the next draft. Jazz are the team with time on their side. The Pels held onto Jrue Holiday an extra year after they traded AD. Basically, it's the same situation.

[OrangeBlueSkies]

The problem with the Jazz is that their development timeline is out of whack. They need to flush out the old players, gather assets and rebuild with young talent that's aligned agewise. This theoretically creates a 7 or 8-year window to build a new iteration of the team.

With Mitchell only having a few years left on his current deal, it doesn't give the Jazz enough runway to really rebuild properly. In the meantime, Mitchell isn't going to enjoy losing a lot of games. So it makes some sense for both sides to move on.

This is precisely why I see the Jazz as the motivated sellers at this point. Cats out of the bag after the Gobert and O'Neal deals. This is a rebuilding ship and that's not an ideal spot for a star coming into his prime.

Knicks are heading in the right direction slowly and have less of an urgency to do something right now. Knicks would be wise to allow some time to pass until Jazz come back to the table with better offer. Time is on the side of NYK

Jazz don't need to move Mitchell this offseason. They can wait until the trade deadline or next offseason. They can tell the Knicks to come back with a top-10 pick in the next draft. Jazz are the team with time on their side. The Pels held onto Jrue Holiday an extra year after they traded AD. Basically, it's the same situation.

Yeah jazz have time on their side.. I guess we keep our haul and you guys keep time on your side Mitchell…

[Ducklett]

Knicks have all the leverage, nobody outside OKC can afford the price of picks

If Banchero is NBA ready from the get go and forces Orlando to be competitive I could see them putting together a competitive offer around Isaac, Anthony, Suggs, Den 1st, Bulls, 1st and then they still got their own 1sts to add if more value is needed.

Mitchell
Harris
Wagner
Banchero
WCJ

I actually like ORL as a darkhorse and Paolo may be immediatley good enough to justify making a win-now (But with a large window due to Mitchells age) type move. But it would take more.

Issac
Suggs
Filler
ORL 23 UNP
CHI 23 Top-4
ORL 24 Swap UNP
ORL 25 UNP
ORL 26 Swap Top-8

Big price for ORL to pay, but Mitchell, Banchero and Wagner make for one hell of a young core. Fultz, Okeke, Mo as defenders off the bench. WCJ + Harris + Wagner as plus starting defenders. Banchero as a wildcard that IMO is at least a neutral defender. Cole as potentially a bench scorer (Albeit not sure the minutes are there w/ Mitch, Fultz, Harris.

IDK, I like it. Think Paolo is for-real and those UNP picks go late lotto in 23 then end up in the 20s.

Way too much for Mitchell. If the Magic were serious, they would wait and see what other teams were offering and then snipe Mitchell with a bit more. Can anyone beat the offer or come close to the offer you guys just listed? Magic UNP has top value with how meh we have been for the last decade.

[Catchall]

This is precisely why I see the Jazz as the motivated sellers at this point. Cats out of the bag after the Gobert and O'Neal deals. This is a rebuilding ship and that's not an ideal spot for a star coming into his prime.

Knicks are heading in the right direction slowly and have less of an urgency to do something right now. Knicks would be wise to allow some time to pass until Jazz come back to the table with better offer. Time is on the side of NYK

Jazz don't need to move Mitchell this offseason. They can wait until the trade deadline or next offseason. They can tell the Knicks to come back with a top-10 pick in the next draft. Jazz are the team with time on their side. The Pels held onto Jrue Holiday an extra year after they traded AD. Basically, it's the same situation.

Yeah jazz have time on their side.. I guess we keep our haul and you guys keep time on your side Mitchell…

So Obi, Grimes, Fournier, 4 or 5 1st-rd picks and 3 swaps is your haul then, huh?

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[JimmyPlopper]

Jazz don't need to move Mitchell this offseason. They can wait until the trade deadline or next offseason. They can tell the Knicks to come back with a top-10 pick in the next draft. Jazz are the team with time on their side. The Pels held onto Jrue Holiday an extra year after they traded AD. Basically, it's the same situation.

Yeah jazz have time on their side.. I guess we keep our haul and you guys keep time on your side Mitchell…

So Obi, Grimes, Fournier, 4 or 5 1st-rd picks and 3 swaps is your haul then, huh?

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I know you weren't talking to me, but that sure does sound like an enormous haul to me.

[Pointgod]

He won’t budge on his ask of SIX first round picks? No problem, let Mitchell ruin your tank and just have yourself a disgruntled superstar. We have all the assets and therefore we, the Knicks, can dictate how this goes down.

Don’t wanna trade us D Mitchell? Hey Brooklyn, how’s Randle, 4 firsts, and D Rose for KD?

We have 8 firsts at our disposal, don’t mess this up, and like I been saying since this regime took over, I’ve got faith in them not messing this up.

Even four firsts is a lot of picks, but if we can do fournier, Reddish, 4 firsts, I’m into it. If not let Danny [and unfortunately, Donovan] rot.

The less we give up in a Mitchell deal the more we have for a follow up deal to pair another star next to RJ:Brunson:Mitchell.

Yes, Randle and 3 or 4 firsts can get you something in this market.

THE Demolition Man


You know everyone wants to claim Ainge got soooo much for Gorbert. I'm not so sure. Minnesota got none of the Wolves top four players ... maybe not even a top six guy. That's a lot of salary filler. Would Beasley, Beverly or Vanderbilt get you a FRP in a heads up trade? I'm not so sure.

So Utah gets lots of bits of value stretched out over seven years. You might expect your value to double in seven years. So real immediate value must be discounted then as well. What would Gorbert be worth in just FRP value? Two, maybe (probably) three.

So, if you discount the eight FRPs over seven years against a package delivering value now. Maybe you get Four FRPs in value maybe five. Still, everyone agrees that four quarters aren't worth a dollar in the NBA ... so ten dimes is probably worth even less.

I'm not saying Minnie didn't overpay somewhat, but given they think they are ready to compete and Gorbert can add to what the have nicely ... it's not that bad a move.


As for getting a haul for Mitchell ... same thing only if it pays out over a decade.


Last point - Randle, D Rose and four FRPs is probably the fourth best offer the Nets and KD might agree upon. New Orleans, Phoenix and Toronto can all give far better assets up front ... even to the point of only needing to include 3 FRPs to still edge you out. Now include Barrett and you may be in the running. Fournier and Reddish will put on par with the Lakers.

I’ve said it before but draft picks get overrated by NBA fans and media and in an effort to fluff Danny Ainge people haven’t really critically analyzed the Gobert trade and the implications.

Minnesota Timberwolves, who sent Malik Beasley, Patrick Beverley, Jarred Vanderbilt, Leandro Bolmaro, the rights to No. 22 overall pick Walker Kessler, unprotected first-round picks in 2023, 2025 and 2027 and a top-five-protected pick in 2029 to the Utah Jazz for three-time Defensive Player of the Year Rudy Gobert.

Like you said Minnesota kept their 4 best players for a guy who’s teams have finished the following in defense since he’s been in the league.

It was about defense, and Gobert has essentially been a top-10 defense unto himself for his entire career: Utah ranked seventh, third, second, second, 13th, fourth and ninth in defensive efficiency in Gobert’s seven full seasons as the team’s starting center, despite routinely employing subpar perimeter defenders.

Based on the numbers Gobert should have the Timberwolves as a top 10 defense. They extended KAT for another 6 years and Anthony Edwards is heading into his 3rd year and will be on the roster for another 5-7 years. If Edwards even reaches the level of Donovan Mitchell the Wolves will be a perrenial playoff team with KAT, Mitchell and Gobert as long as they don’t surround them with garbage. Those picks in 2023,2025 and 2027 will probably be outside of the lottery as long as all 3 don’t suddenly drop off a cliff. The 2029 pick is the worrying one, but at that time if it’s looking not so great the Wolves can always just trade Edwards and whoever else for picks and tank because it’s top 5 protected. I think the Wolves overpaid for Gobert, but only by a pick considering they didn’t give up any of their 4 best players. We’re going to look back at this trade down the line and be like the return for Gobert was meh while it brought some legitimacy to Minnesota.

[JimmyPlopper]

Mike Conley / Jordan Clarkson / Patrick Beverley / Jared Butler
Malik Beasley / Quentin Grimes / Nickeil Alexander-Walker
Evan Fournier / Rudy Gay / Leandro Bolmaro
Bojan Bogdanovic / Obi Toppin / Simone Fontecchio
Jarred Vanderbilt / Udoka Azubuike / Walker Kessler

Jalen Brunson / Derrick Rose / Miles McBride
Donovan Mitchell / Immanuel Quickley
R.J. Barrett / Cam Reddish
Julius Randle / Jericho Sims
Mitchell Robinson / Isaiah Hartenstein

[Scoots1994]

It's not Ainge, it's the owners that keep hiring him.