Donovan Mitchell Thread #6 - Something might actually happen in this one!!!!!!

[G_K_F]

That game is an easy one.

C - Josh Harrelson
PF - Danilo Gallinari
SF - RJ Barrett
SG - Landry Fields
PG - Jerian Grant

Or

C - Jericho Sims
PF - Obi Toppin
SF - Landry Fields
SG - Frank Ntilikina
PG - Immanuel Quickley

both lineups are definitely in the running for victor wembenyama

I’d love that.

Instead we will be need to watch Mitchell have the fans turn on him after 4 straight first round exits because the team traded everything to get him and had nothing left to improve the roster.

[thebuzzardman]

Siakam wasn't proven as anything at that time, you can't rewrite history here, Nurse starting him was a surprise and unexpected -



https://www.sportingnews.com/ca/nba/news/toronto-raptors-nick-nurse-on-lineups-rotations-bench-mob-leonard-lowry-valanciunas-anunoby-siakam/zm1esz9xzyrd1rf7lvddoq85y


He was a bench guy that was expected to be a hustle big for the 2nd unit, he got thrown into the starting lineup because Nurse didn't want to play Jonas and Ibaka together, he wanted his team to play faster and let Siakam handle the ball in transition which is something he had never done prior to that season. You keep saying Obi isn't a defender, he was a better defender than Randle this year, what are you guys even saying at this point?

the advanced stats show that siakam was proven as a defensive player in year 2, which obi is not.

a few things with regards to defense. it's more acceptable for a "star" or an offensive player with a heavy load to not be a good defensive player. i think obi is just a role player and i want good defense out of my role players, it's really that simple. one way role players are slowly getting phased out of the league and getting less playing time, either because they can't shoot/score or can't play defense. i'm okay with trading randle just like i am obi, my post history shows that i was hoping they'd trade him last year after his all-nba season, i don't see your point?

He wasn't "proven" in any shape or form, people here would be saying he did it against bench units, the advanced stats also show Obi was a better all around player.


And I'll ask you, what I've asked everyone else, where do you think this 3 & D forward is going to come from? We're on the verge of trading for Mitchell, we're going to be capped out and with less draft capital, trying to ask for option C when only A & B are available isn't really realistic. What you want isn't on the menu once the Mitchell trade happens, either we're stuck with Randle or we play Obi at the 4, there is no other option here.

Also, the cries for defense from Obi crack me up, we're in a thread about trading for Donovan Mitchell, to par him with Jalen Brunson, defense isn't going to be good unless prime Kevin Garnett is manning the 4 for us.

By trading Randle, naturally
It's possible, and it means shedding Grimes or IQ (and of course Utah agreeing to the deal) but there's a way to retain Fournier too.
That's a $17 million slot to convert in more D, less "all around game"
Here's a nod to BX8etcetc: "call up Dallas about Bullocks"

[DaGawd]

That game is an easy one.

C - Josh Harrelson
PF - Danilo Gallinari
SF - RJ Barrett
SG - Landry Fields
PG - Jerian Grant

Or

C - Jericho Sims
PF - Obi Toppin
SF - Landry Fields
SG - Frank Ntilikina
PG - Immanuel Quickley

both lineups are definitely in the running for victor wembenyama

I’d love that.

Instead we will be need to watch Mitchell have the fans turn on him after 4 straight first round exits because the team traded everything to get him and had nothing left to improve the roster.

better than where we’ve been in recent years… this team will never build like a small market team.. we just gotta hope it works out for us one of these regimes lol

[thebuzzardman]

Rather than quibbling about exactly how meh Obi is as an asset, let me double back to what I think the Knicks ought to try to do with their few years players.

I do think a trade for Donny or SGA is a good idea, and can use up some of those protected firsts in an efficient way. I don't think the Knicks should give up anything not #1 protected for 2023. Maybe Victor turns out to be the worst possible love child of KP and Frank, but the chances of him being the best player to be drafted since at least Luka seem extremely high to me.

My view is that the Knicks should certainly trade away RJ .. and should be able to get a decent return for him .. although not from the Jazz, and Cam if that is possible, which is pretty doubtful. They should definitely try to keep IQ. And then Grimes, Obi and McBride in that order. About at even steps from IQ definitely try to keep (but of course let go in the right trade) down to basically don't care either way about Deuce.

Also try to base the salary on a trade for Donny or SGA on Rose rather than Fournier.

Outside of RJ, I think we are in a ballpark here.

[B8RcDeMktfxC]

Obi, Hartenstein and trade Mitch later next season for useful player

Mitch is less problematic than Randle in an offense, you could run spain PnR with Mitch and Obi, those sets the Hawks killed us with where Collins & Capella were setting screens at the same time? We could do that with them if they have Mitchell/Brunson as primary ball handlers.

Randle isn't a good enough finisher at the rim for that kind of thing, you can only do it with 2 skywalkers.

Good point. I'm torn on Randle, even after being really pissed at him last year.
Same for Obi, different reasons.
I suppose how I feel is a loose summary of the overall take on both

Obi is getting better and needs an expanded role - this amount of which depends on where you are on the Obi spectrum.
There are defensive concerns for Obi; generally Randle is better except last year when he mailed it in
Have some concerns for Obi in the halfcourt offense, particularly when teams zone up and he's asked to create his own offense more. 3 point shot concerns add to this.

Randle can more reliably create offense in the half court, he can certainly pass well for a big, but there's a concern Randle's passing comes with dominating the ball.
Counter argument is Randle got put in a role one level too high and can do well if asked to do less
Counter counter argument is Randle really doesn't have the inclination to play that way and is less effective in that role
Also, with Brunson and Donovan M, Knicks would have two guys who can score when "the play breaks down", so it's better to have willing cutters, stay in their lane shooters and finisher types.
I mean, Utah thrived with Uber P&R Gobert, Mitchell, with Conley, and Boj B providing spacing (not all but this is long enough) with Ingles the willing do it all glue guy and Clarkson to keep the shooting/scoring going off the bench.
Meaning, teams can do well and don't know the 3rd option to be as skilled as Randle, especially if he's not going to stay in his lane.

I'd probably sacrifice Grimes on the alter of getting DMitch and saving a future pick, probably shed Cam too, and Rose (who I like) and keep Fournier and IQ for bench shooting, Randle to see if he can embrace an uber role player mindset, and if not, that's 25 million to deal.

Yes, I know that's giving up defense, height, that Utah might say f*ck off, and the risk Randle acts like a d*ckbag.

Brunson/IQ
DMitchell/Fournier
RJ/ Feron Hunt (bootleg Cam Reddish) or mle vet
Randle/Obi
Big Mitch/Hartenstein
Various pieces (McBride traded)

Yeah. I'm very close to this. Definitely keep Fournier and trade Rose. I think Ainge will take Grimes and one of Obi and IQ just because he can, but..maybe Paschall gets substituted in to this line up in place of Obi.

[Ghetto Gospel]

Siakam wasn't proven as anything at that time, you can't rewrite history here, Nurse starting him was a surprise and unexpected -



https://www.sportingnews.com/ca/nba/news/toronto-raptors-nick-nurse-on-lineups-rotations-bench-mob-leonard-lowry-valanciunas-anunoby-siakam/zm1esz9xzyrd1rf7lvddoq85y


He was a bench guy that was expected to be a hustle big for the 2nd unit, he got thrown into the starting lineup because Nurse didn't want to play Jonas and Ibaka together, he wanted his team to play faster and let Siakam handle the ball in transition which is something he had never done prior to that season. You keep saying Obi isn't a defender, he was a better defender than Randle this year, what are you guys even saying at this point?

the advanced stats show that siakam was proven as a defensive player in year 2, which obi is not.

a few things with regards to defense. it's more acceptable for a "star" or an offensive player with a heavy load to not be a good defensive player. i think obi is just a role player and i want good defense out of my role players, it's really that simple. one way role players are slowly getting phased out of the league and getting less playing time, either because they can't shoot/score or can't play defense. i'm okay with trading randle just like i am obi, my post history shows that i was hoping they'd trade him last year after his all-nba season, i don't see your point?

He wasn't "proven" in any shape or form, people here would be saying he did it against bench units, the advanced stats also show Obi was a better all around player.

And I'll ask you, what I've asked everyone else, where do you think this 3 & D forward is going to come from? We're on the verge of trading for Mitchell, we're going to be capped out and with less draft capital, trying to ask for option C when only A & B are available isn't really realistic. What you want isn't on the menu once the Mitchell trade happens, either we're stuck with Randle or we play Obi at the 4, there is no other option here.

Also, the cries for defense from Obi crack me up, we're in a thread about trading for Donovan Mitchell, to pair him with Jalen Brunson, defense isn't going to be good unless prime Kevin Garnett is manning the 4 for us.

now you're strawmanning saying what people here would say. i'm saying that the advanced stats prove he was a good defensive player, and obi is not even good against opposing benches.

how did we get tyson chandler or jr smith for melo? melo needed star/superstar level help, not role player help. how did the miami heat or the lakers get role players? how did milwaukee get jingles this year? this isn't a 1 year build then breakup we can find a way to get guys

so what we just don't care about defense anymore if we get mitchell? fk it who cares about players playing defense? sure, let's bring in duncan robinson and davis bertans as well? reality is, it's still important for role players to play defense.

[B8RcDeMktfxC]

My snark takes don't include sober analysis.

I'm honestly not sure. Mitch is a decent/good player. He's also in the upper echelon of pay, and over 4 years, for the prototype of player he is.

This is basically a hedge, because I don't know, but neither easy nor hard - a team would have to have a need and a matching player (s) Knicks would like back or some 3 team trade.

Like, if Bam were to go on the market, even teams that have a good C would explore it, where Mitch it would be a team with a need.

So you think NBA teams would rate Bam more highly than Mitch? Controversial!!!

Look, I agree that if Mitch shot 40% from three, had Kareem's sky hook and would set a decent screen every now and then he'd be a better player. But his defence and team rebounding are top tier. He fundamentally gets basketball, even if he isn't that good at some important aspects. (And it's completely on the Knicks that they can't get him to shoot 66% from FT.) And he's basically gets on with it on court without creating drama. That makes him in the tier of Gobert, who was just traded for 17 first round picks or whatever.

Man that year mitch passed out turkeys really went a long way.
‘ more value than bam’ ?
‘ in the tier of Gobert’ ?
Man I’m really becoming an insane Knick fan like some talking about I’m starting to love this .

Let me clarify. It's pretty obvious that Bam is and should be more highly rated than Mitch. However, Mitch is pretty close in value to Gobert imo.

[Gravy]

My goodness. I cant blame them for trading out of the draft, give ainge whoever he wants.

[B8RcDeMktfxC]

Giving up Grimes and Obi isnt really giving up the house. Knicks would still have RJ, IQ, McBride, and Cam.

Pretty sure the Jazz Radio host even said the player return was meh but the picks return was a haul for Utah.

McBride hasn’t done anything in the league and has no value.

Cam Reddish sucks.

RJ will have less value at $30 million per season.

Reddish has value of (roughly) 6 million that is expiring, which Ainge may prefer. He's filler.
Ainge can probably flip him at the deadline for a 2nd rounder
Or maybe we don't know and retains enough value for a late first, but prob not

I like the optimism, but I don't see Reddish as having any value at the deadline, and Ainge pretty surely won't treat him as having such.

[NoDopeOnSundays]

the advanced stats show that siakam was proven as a defensive player in year 2, which obi is not.

a few things with regards to defense. it's more acceptable for a "star" or an offensive player with a heavy load to not be a good defensive player. i think obi is just a role player and i want good defense out of my role players, it's really that simple. one way role players are slowly getting phased out of the league and getting less playing time, either because they can't shoot/score or can't play defense. i'm okay with trading randle just like i am obi, my post history shows that i was hoping they'd trade him last year after his all-nba season, i don't see your point?

He wasn't "proven" in any shape or form, people here would be saying he did it against bench units, the advanced stats also show Obi was a better all around player.

And I'll ask you, what I've asked everyone else, where do you think this 3 & D forward is going to come from? We're on the verge of trading for Mitchell, we're going to be capped out and with less draft capital, trying to ask for option C when only A & B are available isn't really realistic. What you want isn't on the menu once the Mitchell trade happens, either we're stuck with Randle or we play Obi at the 4, there is no other option here.

Also, the cries for defense from Obi crack me up, we're in a thread about trading for Donovan Mitchell, to pair him with Jalen Brunson, defense isn't going to be good unless prime Kevin Garnett is manning the 4 for us.

now you're strawmanning saying what people here would say. i'm saying that the advanced stats prove he was a good defensive player, and obi is not even good against opposing benches.

how did we get tyson chandler or jr smith for melo? melo needed star/superstar level help, not role player help. how did the miami heat or the lakers get role players? how did milwaukee get jingles this year? this isn't a 1 year build then breakup we can find a way to get guys

so what we just don't care about defense anymore if we get mitchell? fk it who cares about players playing defense? sure, let's bring in duncan robinson and davis bertans as well? reality is, it's still important for role players to play defense.

You would have looked at Siakam's 3 point shooting percentage and trashed him over it, stop it. I been saying that since the jump, since you started quoting me, it's literally the first thing I said about Siakam. You want this to be about Obi turning into Siakam, when it's simply about you and posters like you not being able to see value in Obi, you would have done the exact same thing with Siakam cause he had a glaring hole in his game. Nevermind the fact the gap between them offensively through their first two years is larger than the defensive one, both of them were net positives, you're talking like we sucked anytime Obi stepped on the floor.


Tyson Chandler? JR Smith? That was almost 10 years ago, and ended in failure The Lakers and Heat had LeBron, can we please stop using them as an example of team builds, they had a top 3 player all-time. You wouldn't want Jingles, he's 34 coming off an ACL tear and you had no idea he was a versatile defender, we also don't have a Giannis.

[Ghetto Gospel]

He wasn't "proven" in any shape or form, people here would be saying he did it against bench units, the advanced stats also show Obi was a better all around player.

And I'll ask you, what I've asked everyone else, where do you think this 3 & D forward is going to come from? We're on the verge of trading for Mitchell, we're going to be capped out and with less draft capital, trying to ask for option C when only A & B are available isn't really realistic. What you want isn't on the menu once the Mitchell trade happens, either we're stuck with Randle or we play Obi at the 4, there is no other option here.

Also, the cries for defense from Obi crack me up, we're in a thread about trading for Donovan Mitchell, to pair him with Jalen Brunson, defense isn't going to be good unless prime Kevin Garnett is manning the 4 for us.

now you're strawmanning saying what people here would say. i'm saying that the advanced stats prove he was a good defensive player, and obi is not even good against opposing benches.

how did we get tyson chandler or jr smith for melo? melo needed star/superstar level help, not role player help. how did the miami heat or the lakers get role players? how did milwaukee get jingles this year? this isn't a 1 year build then breakup we can find a way to get guys

so what we just don't care about defense anymore if we get mitchell? fk it who cares about players playing defense? sure, let's bring in duncan robinson and davis bertans as well? reality is, it's still important for role players to play defense.

You would have looked at Siakam's 3 point shooting percentage and trashed him over it, stop it. I been saying that since the jump, since you started quoting me, it's literally the first thing I said about Siakam. You want this to be about Obi turning into Siakam, when it's simply about you and posters like you not being able to see value in Obi, you would have done the exact same thing with Siakam cause he had a glaring hole in his game. Nevermind the fact the gap between them offensively through their first two years is larger than the defensive one, both of them were net positives, you're talking like we sucked anytime Obi stepped on the floor.


Tyson Chandler? JR Smith? That was almost 10 years ago, and ended in failure The Lakers and Heat had LeBron, can we please stop using them as an example of team builds, they had a top 3 player all-time. You wouldn't want Jingles, he's 34 coming off an ACL tear and you had no idea he was a versatile defender, we also don't have a Giannis.

like i said, i'd be good with obi if he played defense like siakam and he could provide something on both ends of the floor, but right now he doesn't. if obi was a finisher that played good defense, then i don't need him to shoot 3's, though if he did shoot 3's he'd be the perfect role player and i'd love to keep him

you asked how we're going to get role players and i explained that to you. we got role players 10 years ago and we can get them again now. you're moving the goalposts

[B8RcDeMktfxC]

the advanced stats show that siakam was proven as a defensive player in year 2, which obi is not.

a few things with regards to defense. it's more acceptable for a "star" or an offensive player with a heavy load to not be a good defensive player. i think obi is just a role player and i want good defense out of my role players, it's really that simple. one way role players are slowly getting phased out of the league and getting less playing time, either because they can't shoot/score or can't play defense. i'm okay with trading randle just like i am obi, my post history shows that i was hoping they'd trade him last year after his all-nba season, i don't see your point?

He wasn't "proven" in any shape or form, people here would be saying he did it against bench units, the advanced stats also show Obi was a better all around player.


And I'll ask you, what I've asked everyone else, where do you think this 3 & D forward is going to come from? We're on the verge of trading for Mitchell, we're going to be capped out and with less draft capital, trying to ask for option C when only A & B are available isn't really realistic. What you want isn't on the menu once the Mitchell trade happens, either we're stuck with Randle or we play Obi at the 4, there is no other option here.

Also, the cries for defense from Obi crack me up, we're in a thread about trading for Donovan Mitchell, to par him with Jalen Brunson, defense isn't going to be good unless prime Kevin Garnett is manning the 4 for us.

By trading Randle, naturally
It's possible, and it means shedding Grimes or IQ (and of course Utah agreeing to the deal) but there's a way to retain Fournier too.
That's a $17 million slot to convert in more D, less "all around game"
Here's a nod to BX8etcetc: "call up Dallas about Bullocks"

Assuming Timmy's healthy, one of him, Dinwiddie and Reggie are going to be on the trade block come December. Dallas will probably want to hang on to one of Reggie, Frank and Josh Green. The latter because it turns out defence is of crucial importance if you want to actually contend for the championship or even a conference title. Which is why no-O Frank played significant minutes against the Suns (to good effect) and the Warriors (not his fault Wiggins crushed).

[KnixinSix]

Based on Alan Hahns update today...Knicks probably know no one is likely to match the combination of overall quantity/quality of the picks they are offering Ainge. So with that said they probably don't want to fork over an A1 treasure trove of picks AND too many young quality players at the same time. If the pick package is substantial I don't blame them. Ainge is getting the main thing he wants ...going after too many of our young ones is greedy

[thebuzzardman]

Is Mitch going to be hard or easy to trade in your view? If easy, why trade? If hard, how to trade?

My snark takes don't include sober analysis.

I'm honestly not sure. Mitch is a decent/good player. He's also in the upper echelon of pay, and over 4 years, for the prototype of player he is.

This is basically a hedge, because I don't know, but neither easy nor hard - a team would have to have a need and a matching player (s) Knicks would like back or some 3 team trade.

Like, if Bam were to go on the market, even teams that have a good C would explore it, where Mitch it would be a team with a need.

So you think NBA teams would rate Bam more highly than Mitch? Controversial!!!

Look, I agree that if Mitch shot 40% from three, had Kareem's sky hook and would set a decent screen every now and then he'd be a better player. But his defence and team rebounding are top tier. He fundamentally gets basketball, even if he isn't that good at some important aspects. (And it's completely on the Knicks that they can't get him to shoot 66% from FT.) And he's basically gets on with it on court without creating drama. That makes him in the tier of Gobert, who was just traded for 17 first round picks or whatever.

I just used Bam as the throw in for the next level of C that completely easy to trade.

I think Mitch is good. At least getting Hartenstein means the Knicks can throw out a 5 with more offensive variety to his game (and possibly an outside shot) - something I've talked about for 2 years, so that should be fine.

I don't know if he's Gobert as Gobert is legit a little bit taller and I think noticeably better screens, but yes, Mitch willingly stays in his lane and does it well, agreed.

Also, don't make me say stuff that encourages Shams.

[NoDopeOnSundays]

now you're strawmanning saying what people here would say. i'm saying that the advanced stats prove he was a good defensive player, and obi is not even good against opposing benches.

how did we get tyson chandler or jr smith for melo? melo needed star/superstar level help, not role player help. how did the miami heat or the lakers get role players? how did milwaukee get jingles this year? this isn't a 1 year build then breakup we can find a way to get guys

so what we just don't care about defense anymore if we get mitchell? fk it who cares about players playing defense? sure, let's bring in duncan robinson and davis bertans as well? reality is, it's still important for role players to play defense.

You would have looked at Siakam's 3 point shooting percentage and trashed him over it, stop it. I been saying that since the jump, since you started quoting me, it's literally the first thing I said about Siakam. You want this to be about Obi turning into Siakam, when it's simply about you and posters like you not being able to see value in Obi, you would have done the exact same thing with Siakam cause he had a glaring hole in his game. Nevermind the fact the gap between them offensively through their first two years is larger than the defensive one, both of them were net positives, you're talking like we sucked anytime Obi stepped on the floor.


Tyson Chandler? JR Smith? That was almost 10 years ago, and ended in failure The Lakers and Heat had LeBron, can we please stop using them as an example of team builds, they had a top 3 player all-time. You wouldn't want Jingles, he's 34 coming off an ACL tear and you had no idea he was a versatile defender, we also don't have a Giannis.

like i said, i'd be good with obi if he played defense like siakam and he could provide something on both ends of the floor, but right now he doesn't. if obi was a finisher that played good defense, then i don't need him to shoot 3's, though if he did shoot 3's he'd be the perfect role player and i'd love to keep him

you asked how we're going to get role players and i explained that to you. we got role players 10 years ago and we can get them again now. you're moving the goalposts

Obi shot 35% from three over a 45 game stretch , nice to see you finally on board.


No, I asked you how we're going to get the 3 & D forward from, teams aren't giving away starting 3 & D guys like that, and you said we got Tyson and JR 10 years ago, when player values were different. I'm not moving goalposts, I asked a specific question about a specific player type, probably the most valuable type of role player right now.


Most of the people who want Mitchell also realize he won't be enough on his own and we'd need another star, so we'd need another star & now a 3 & D forward.

[thebuzzardman]

My snark takes don't include sober analysis.

I'm honestly not sure. Mitch is a decent/good player. He's also in the upper echelon of pay, and over 4 years, for the prototype of player he is.

This is basically a hedge, because I don't know, but neither easy nor hard - a team would have to have a need and a matching player (s) Knicks would like back or some 3 team trade.

Like, if Bam were to go on the market, even teams that have a good C would explore it, where Mitch it would be a team with a need.

So you think NBA teams would rate Bam more highly than Mitch? Controversial!!!

Look, I agree that if Mitch shot 40% from three, had Kareem's sky hook and would set a decent screen every now and then he'd be a better player. But his defence and team rebounding are top tier. He fundamentally gets basketball, even if he isn't that good at some important aspects. (And it's completely on the Knicks that they can't get him to shoot 66% from FT.) And he's basically gets on with it on court without creating drama. That makes him in the tier of Gobert, who was just traded for 17 first round picks or whatever.

Man that year mitch passed out turkeys really went a long way.
‘ more value than bam’ ?
‘ in the tier of Gobert’ ?
Man I’m really becoming an insane Knick fan like some talking about I’m starting to love this .

I think you kind of missed his points.
He's making fun of the fact I said Bam is better than Mitch, which I used as a C completely easy to trade - all 30 teams would be on the line. So BXetc went with the "no sh*t" sarcasm.

The comparison to Gobert is some hyperbole on his part but he's pointing out Mitch effectively plays a very good version of the same role but Gobert went for a zillion picks.
Clearly Gobert is another level, BXetc trying to point out these kinds of players have value. That's all.

[G_K_F]

Putting Mitchell Robinson and fundamentals in the same sentence has to be one of the most ridiculous things posted here in recent memory - and Green Arrow is posting about his encounters in Thailand.

[thebuzzardman]

Mitch is less problematic than Randle in an offense, you could run spain PnR with Mitch and Obi, those sets the Hawks killed us with where Collins & Capella were setting screens at the same time? We could do that with them if they have Mitchell/Brunson as primary ball handlers.

Randle isn't a good enough finisher at the rim for that kind of thing, you can only do it with 2 skywalkers.

Good point. I'm torn on Randle, even after being really pissed at him last year.
Same for Obi, different reasons.
I suppose how I feel is a loose summary of the overall take on both

Obi is getting better and needs an expanded role - this amount of which depends on where you are on the Obi spectrum.
There are defensive concerns for Obi; generally Randle is better except last year when he mailed it in
Have some concerns for Obi in the halfcourt offense, particularly when teams zone up and he's asked to create his own offense more. 3 point shot concerns add to this.

Randle can more reliably create offense in the half court, he can certainly pass well for a big, but there's a concern Randle's passing comes with dominating the ball.
Counter argument is Randle got put in a role one level too high and can do well if asked to do less
Counter counter argument is Randle really doesn't have the inclination to play that way and is less effective in that role
Also, with Brunson and Donovan M, Knicks would have two guys who can score when "the play breaks down", so it's better to have willing cutters, stay in their lane shooters and finisher types.
I mean, Utah thrived with Uber P&R Gobert, Mitchell, with Conley, and Boj B providing spacing (not all but this is long enough) with Ingles the willing do it all glue guy and Clarkson to keep the shooting/scoring going off the bench.
Meaning, teams can do well and don't know the 3rd option to be as skilled as Randle, especially if he's not going to stay in his lane.

I'd probably sacrifice Grimes on the alter of getting DMitch and saving a future pick, probably shed Cam too, and Rose (who I like) and keep Fournier and IQ for bench shooting, Randle to see if he can embrace an uber role player mindset, and if not, that's 25 million to deal.

Yes, I know that's giving up defense, height, that Utah might say f*ck off, and the risk Randle acts like a d*ckbag.

Brunson/IQ
DMitchell/Fournier
RJ/ Feron Hunt (bootleg Cam Reddish) or mle vet
Randle/Obi
Big Mitch/Hartenstein
Various pieces (McBride traded)

Yeah. I'm very close to this. Definitely keep Fournier and trade Rose. I think Ainge will take Grimes and one of Obi and IQ just because he can, but..maybe Paschall gets substituted in to this line up in place of Obi.

I think I've landed on this possibility a few times. Probably because I've run every trade combo in my head 10 times.
Especially after you and Richard4444444444444444444444444 clarified the $ parameters around the trade for Donovan M.
This is where I think it's Grimes or IQ, and just sense the Knicks lean to keeping IQ and then, even though I think it's one player too much, maybe Obi goes (which I wouldn't like) and then Paschall is a more than adequate replacement - for the backup role.

[NoDopeOnSundays]

Putting Mitchell Robinson and fundamentals in the same sentence has to be one of the most ridiculous things posted here in recent memory - and Green Arrow is posting about his encounters in Thailand.

[Clyde_Style]

Putting Mitchell Robinson and fundamentals in the same sentence has to be one of the most ridiculous things posted here in recent memory - and Green Arrow is posting about his encounters in Thailand.