Current State of Donovan

[ForeverRDjazz]

The jazz will have to win for DM to maintain Allstar status . It’s just the landscape of the selection process now.

It’s will depend on the strength of the tank and it’s intent . By most accounts intents look strong so having a playoff type record would mean not executing the FOs plan which can be a major setback .They can also pivot I’m not here to be doom and gloom guy.

In short My reality is:
Jazz executes tank
DM loses AS status

I haven't pulled any history but I'm sure there's been players miss the playoffs yet still voted in as a all star. Mitchell stays in Utah next year he'll without question be AS player win or lose he'll be there. I'd bet his numbers would be a career best and value will be all time high at trade deadline. Hard to win a argument with someone smart.

If you look at the last 2 years players for tanking teams will not be selected to an allstar game.
You have to be in the playin picture or only a few games below .500 and you might get considered. Few games below means 5 to 6 games.
Go ahead and pull history, you will not find it in the last 2 years.
zion, close to .500 or playin
beal close to .500 or playin

if you want to execute a tank you gonna have to be well below that threshold and the nba has shown they no longer reward players from those teams.
Being smart is great
but that doesnt change nba reality

You think the jazz keep DM they're going to tank? Hardly the case. I've seen players play almost zero games voted into All star games. Fans are stupid. Stockton and Malone was always voted in by the coaches. T Mac missed almost every game and was voted in by Chinese back in Yao Ming days.

[bearadonisdna]

I haven't pulled any history but I'm sure there's been players miss the playoffs yet still voted in as a all star. Mitchell stays in Utah next year he'll without question be AS player win or lose he'll be there. I'd bet his numbers would be a career best and value will be all time high at trade deadline. Hard to win a argument with someone smart.

If you look at the last 2 years players for tanking teams will not be selected to an allstar game.
You have to be in the playin picture or only a few games below .500 and you might get considered. Few games below means 5 to 6 games.
Go ahead and pull history, you will not find it in the last 2 years.
zion, close to .500 or playin
beal close to .500 or playin

if you want to execute a tank you gonna have to be well below that threshold and the nba has shown they no longer reward players from those teams.
Being smart is great
but that doesnt change nba reality

You think the jazz keep DM they're going to tank? Hardly the case. I've seen players play almost zero games voted into All star games. Fans are stupid. Stockton and Malone was always voted in by the coaches. T Mac missed almost every game and was voted in by Chinese back in Yao Ming days.

Not sure what the jazz plans would be this season if they kept Donovan .
They would be considerably a worse team .
Rumors are they want to dump more salary in a DM move so idk if they still do that if they keep him .

You’re telling me their is a chance you keep Donovan Mitchell and play to win this season ?
Even if their ceiling is a sub 49 win team ?
If you told me yes then I guess I respect it and good luck .
Playing to win is the most integral way to conduct business .

[Catchall]

If you look at the last 2 years players for tanking teams will not be selected to an allstar game.
You have to be in the playin picture or only a few games below .500 and you might get considered. Few games below means 5 to 6 games.
Go ahead and pull history, you will not find it in the last 2 years.
zion, close to .500 or playin
beal close to .500 or playin

if you want to execute a tank you gonna have to be well below that threshold and the nba has shown they no longer reward players from those teams.
Being smart is great
but that doesnt change nba reality

You think the jazz keep DM they're going to tank? Hardly the case. I've seen players play almost zero games voted into All star games. Fans are stupid. Stockton and Malone was always voted in by the coaches. T Mac missed almost every game and was voted in by Chinese back in Yao Ming days.

Not sure what the jazz plans would be this season if they kept Donovan .
They would be considerably a worse team .
Rumors are they want to dump more salary in a DM move so idk if they still do that if they keep him .

You’re telling me their is a chance you keep Donovan Mitchell and play to win this season ?
Even if their ceiling is a sub 49 win team ?
If you told me yes then I guess I respect it and good luck .
Playing to win is the most integral way to conduct business .

I'm not sure what you're getting at. Even if Donovan isn't happy losing games this year, the Jazz can move him at the trade deadline or next offseason. This same situation played out with Jrue Holiday in New Orleans. OKC continues to lose games and tank seasons with SGA hanging out on the roster.

Danny Ainge doesn't care whether Donovan is named an All Star this year. He'll move Donovan, as it's about to make sense for both parties, but not until he gets a return he's happy with.

[bearadonisdna]

You think the jazz keep DM they're going to tank? Hardly the case. I've seen players play almost zero games voted into All star games. Fans are stupid. Stockton and Malone was always voted in by the coaches. T Mac missed almost every game and was voted in by Chinese back in Yao Ming days.

Not sure what the jazz plans would be this season if they kept Donovan .
They would be considerably a worse team .
Rumors are they want to dump more salary in a DM move so idk if they still do that if they keep him .

You’re telling me their is a chance you keep Donovan Mitchell and play to win this season ?
Even if their ceiling is a sub 49 win team ?
If you told me yes then I guess I respect it and good luck .
Playing to win is the most integral way to conduct business .

I'm not sure what you're getting at. Even if Donovan isn't happy losing games this year, the Jazz can move him at the trade deadline or next offseason. This same situation played out with Jrue Holiday in New Orleans. OKC continues to lose games and tank seasons with SGA hanging out on the roster.

Danny Ainge doesn't care whether Donovan is named an All Star this year. He'll move Donovan, as it's about to make sense for both parties, but not until he gets a return he's happy with.

Sure ainge wouidnt care about his Allstar status it’s not his career at stake .

[ForeverRDjazz]

If you look at the last 2 years players for tanking teams will not be selected to an allstar game.
You have to be in the playin picture or only a few games below .500 and you might get considered. Few games below means 5 to 6 games.
Go ahead and pull history, you will not find it in the last 2 years.
zion, close to .500 or playin
beal close to .500 or playin

if you want to execute a tank you gonna have to be well below that threshold and the nba has shown they no longer reward players from those teams.
Being smart is great
but that doesnt change nba reality

You think the jazz keep DM they're going to tank? Hardly the case. I've seen players play almost zero games voted into All star games. Fans are stupid. Stockton and Malone was always voted in by the coaches. T Mac missed almost every game and was voted in by Chinese back in Yao Ming days.

Not sure what the jazz plans would be this season if they kept Donovan .
They would be considerably a worse team .
Rumors are they want to dump more salary in a DM move so idk if they still do that if they keep him .

You’re telling me their is a chance you keep Donovan Mitchell and play to win this season ?
Even if their ceiling is a sub 49 win team ?
If you told me yes then I guess I respect it and good luck .
Playing to win is the most integral way to conduct business .

Only real player they've traded is Rudy because Royce is a plus being gone and the return was so high I believe Jazz won't miss the playoffs and tank mode is off. Do what all the other teams are doing and that's playing small ball. Rudy and Mitchell didn't have the best relationship. Retool year if Danny doesn't get the trade he wants why do it? 3 more years maybe 4 with Mitchell if they choose to keep him. Only going to dump salary if they get PICKS back. Rebuild mode isn't the same as retool mode.

[ForeverRDjazz]

If you look at the last 2 years players for tanking teams will not be selected to an allstar game.
You have to be in the playin picture or only a few games below .500 and you might get considered. Few games below means 5 to 6 games.
Go ahead and pull history, you will not find it in the last 2 years.
zion, close to .500 or playin
beal close to .500 or playin

if you want to execute a tank you gonna have to be well below that threshold and the nba has shown they no longer reward players from those teams.
Being smart is great
but that doesnt change nba reality

You think the jazz keep DM they're going to tank? Hardly the case. I've seen players play almost zero games voted into All star games. Fans are stupid. Stockton and Malone was always voted in by the coaches. T Mac missed almost every game and was voted in by Chinese back in Yao Ming days.

Not sure what the jazz plans would be this season if they kept Donovan .
They would be considerably a worse team .
Rumors are they want to dump more salary in a DM move so idk if they still do that if they keep him .

You’re telling me their is a chance you keep Donovan Mitchell and play to win this season ?
Even if their ceiling is a sub 49 win team ?
If you told me yes then I guess I respect it and good luck .
Playing to win is the most integral way to conduct business .

next year, if they keep Mitchell and play to win a lot will ride on what the new coach brings and if players buy into his system? We keep Mitchell the Jazz will for sure want to win games and lots of them. Mitchell is move other players on the team will also go soon after. Bogey Jordan Conley. Mitchell isn't moved they'll most likely hold on to others and keep trying to win games next year. If things don't look good by trade deadline they'll look and really moving Mitchell and others. Great offer comes jazz will then jump on full rebuild. It's really a wait and see game at this point.

[Inigo Montoya]

This has Danny Ainge written all over it...

Six Teams Have Joined Knicks In Pursuit Of Donovan Mitchell
https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/268064/Six-Teams-Have-Joined-Knicks-In-Pursuit-Of-Donovan-Mitchell

[red4hf]

This has Danny Ainge written all over it...

Six Teams Have Joined Knicks In Pursuit Of Donovan Mitchell
https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/268064/Six-Teams-Have-Joined-Knicks-In-Pursuit-Of-Donovan-Mitchell

It sure does........

[AingesBurner]

This has Danny Ainge written all over it...

Six Teams Have Joined Knicks In Pursuit Of Donovan Mitchell
https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/268064/Six-Teams-Have-Joined-Knicks-In-Pursuit-Of-Donovan-Mitchell

I would imagine there is some truth to some of the teams.

[SoCalJazzFan]

Knicks can’t slit their wrist for DM.
That’s why they can’t send 4 unprotected .
Btw Ainge is misjudging the market completely .
Just because Gobert got it but it’s a different landscape now.
Minny was dealing was a perennial playoff team selling their foundation.
The jazz are now a lottery team selling their foundation.
This mean the price to buyer can be lower.

As far as dangling players so freely in trade talks for them just to stall , it’s not normal precedent for the PLAYER to not take control of his destiny
Ainge or jazz can’t feel too empowered they are in the driver seat because thatvysntvthecwst it works out any more in the player empowered nba.
Right now they are operating at the mercy of DM not the other way around.

It’s better to settle on fair deal than than try to extract most value at the opposing teams dismay because the greed may backfire.

You seem like a nice guy, but the fact that you've been posting on our Jazz forum for the past 2 weeks shows how desperate the Knicks are to get Donovan Mitchell.

Your front office will convince themselves that Brunson, Mitchell, RJ Barrett, and Robinson will be good, and that they will then be able to attract other free agents. They might be right. Obviously, if this deal goes through, we hope that they are wrong. I think that there is tremendous pressure from the fans, and perhaps owner, for the Knicks front office to pull this off. If they don't, and their season is crap, it is probably their jobs on the line.

Also, the Jazz have only traded Gobert. They have essentially the rest of the team and a ton of picks to pivot to a retool if necessary. They could use one of their many picks to acquire Myles Turner who would provide rim protection and space the floor better than Gobert and probably still make the playoffs and perhaps do surprisingly well.

The Jazz are in the position of power in the negotiations.

[bearadonisdna]

Knicks can’t slit their wrist for DM.
That’s why they can’t send 4 unprotected .
Btw Ainge is misjudging the market completely .
Just because Gobert got it but it’s a different landscape now.
Minny was dealing was a perennial playoff team selling their foundation.
The jazz are now a lottery team selling their foundation.
This mean the price to buyer can be lower.

As far as dangling players so freely in trade talks for them just to stall , it’s not normal precedent for the PLAYER to not take control of his destiny
Ainge or jazz can’t feel too empowered they are in the driver seat because thatvysntvthecwst it works out any more in the player empowered nba.
Right now they are operating at the mercy of DM not the other way around.

It’s better to settle on fair deal than than try to extract most value at the opposing teams dismay because the greed may backfire.

You seem like a nice guy, but the fact that you've been posting on our Jazz forum for the past 2 weeks shows how desperate the Knicks are to get Donovan Mitchell.

Your front office will convince themselves that Brunson, Mitchell, RJ Barrett, and Robinson will be good, and that they will then be able to attract other free agents. They might be right. Obviously, if this deal goes through, we hope that they are wrong. I think that there is tremendous pressure from the fans, and perhaps owner, for the Knicks front office to pull this off. If they don't, and their season is crap, it is probably their jobs on the line.

Also, the Jazz have only traded Gobert. They have essentially the rest of the team and a ton of picks to pivot to a retool if necessary. They could use one of their many picks to acquire Myles Turner who would provide rim protection and space the floor better than Gobert and probably still make the playoffs and perhaps do surprisingly well.

The Jazz are in the position of power in the negotiations.

Well I tried to explain to my Knicks friends , leverage is something that can be exerted .
If the Knicks can’t exert anything they likely have no leverage,
So I agree that jazz has the position of power but the Knicks still have good position .
Also I feel the Knicks aren’t desperate .
Both sides are fronting the my can walk away amicably but outside perception is that both side are in too far not to make deal done.

What I told my Knick friends is that Knicks need to conjure leverage that is not reliant on DM. Meaning waiting on his to ask out etc.
Because right now the Knicks have no other options other than maintaining course on their rebuild and youth which is becoming a brighter proposition everyday. Hence the not desperate .

[Inigo Montoya]

If the Knicks wait they run the risk of Mitchell being traded to another team, so there's that. Yes, the Knicks have a lot of picks but historically they haven't made good use of them in terms of drafting stars.

[iLLmatic860]

If the Knicks wait they run the risk of Mitchell being traded to another team, so there's that. Yes, the Knicks have a lot of picks but historically they haven't made good use of them in terms of drafting stars.

I’m fine with someone outbidding us tbh. Jazz can only have 1 of the following Grimes, Iq or Obi if they want there picks.

I’m thinking

Grimes
Mcbride
Fournier
5 FRP (2 unprotected)

Take it or leave it Ainge

[Crunch 99]

If the Knicks wait they run the risk of Mitchell being traded to another team, so there's that. Yes, the Knicks have a lot of picks but historically they haven't made good use of them in terms of drafting stars.

I’m fine with someone outbidding us tbh. Jazz can only have 1 of the following Grimes, Iq or Obi if they want there picks.

I’m thinking

Grimes
Mcbride
Fournier
5 FRP (2 unprotected)

Take it or leave it Ainge

Dolan has a very rare opportunity to trade for a marketable young All Star, a face of franchise type guy, who actually wants to play for the Knicks. I expect Dolan will reach a little to make this deal happen. It was just three summers ago that the Knicks had the most cap space in the league, enough space to sign two major All Star free agents, and came away with nothing.

Alternatively, I wouldn't be disappointed if the Jazz kept Donovan for now, while being careful not to eventually lose him for nothing. I think young DM still has upside and will improve his two way game.

[MalonesElbows]

If the Knicks wait they run the risk of Mitchell being traded to another team, so there's that. Yes, the Knicks have a lot of picks but historically they haven't made good use of them in terms of drafting stars.

I’m fine with someone outbidding us tbh. Jazz can only have 1 of the following Grimes, Iq or Obi if they want there picks.

I’m thinking

Grimes
Mcbride
Fournier
5 FRP (2 unprotected)

Take it or leave it Ainge

Dolan has a very rare opportunity to trade for a marketable young All Star, a face of franchise type guy, who actually wants to play for the Knicks. I expect Dolan will reach a little to make this deal happen. It was just three summers ago that the Knicks had the most cap space in the league, enough space to sign two major All Star free agents and came away with nothing.

Alternatively, I wouldn't be disappointed if the Jazz kept Donovan for now, while being careful not to eventually lose him for nothing. I think young DM still has upside and will improve his two way game.

The NY market + Mitchell might be enough to get another star to sign there in the future. So it becomes a big "what if" if they pass on Mitchell. NY has struggled with signings in recent history due to abysmal drafting and rosters. Do they really want to keep playing the draft game?

[ForeverRDjazz]

If the Knicks wait they run the risk of Mitchell being traded to another team, so there's that. Yes, the Knicks have a lot of picks but historically they haven't made good use of them in terms of drafting stars.

I’m fine with someone outbidding us tbh. Jazz can only have 1 of the following Grimes, Iq or Obi if they want there picks.

I’m thinking

Grimes
Mcbride
Fournier
5 FRP (2 unprotected)

Take it or leave it Ainge

Dolan has a very rare opportunity to trade for a marketable young All Star, a face of franchise type guy, who actually wants to play for the Knicks. I expect Dolan will reach a little to make this deal happen. It was just three summers ago that the Knicks had the most cap space in the league, enough space to sign two major All Star free agents and came away with nothing.

Alternatively, I wouldn't be disappointed if the Jazz kept Donovan for now, while being careful not to eventually lose him for nothing. I think young DM still has upside and will improve his two way game.

Mitchell is 25 Jordan didn't win title until he was 28. Bet Jordan had a ton of Naysayers before winning. Part of me is wanting to see what we can do before trade deadline this year.

[UnbelievablyRAW]

If the Raptors were theoretically able to move OG to a 3rd team for picks (lets say Orlando gives up their top 4 protected Chicago pick and another protected first for OG) and add 3-4 of our own with Trent as the main piece coming back, would that be enough for Don?

Trent, Thad or Birch, Chi 23, Orl protected 23, Raptors unprotected 23, + 3 future picks +/- swaps for Mitchell

You'd have to pay Trent, but he's a 23 year old talent that has been improving his creation skills. He's good enough to have upside but still not good enough to not compromise your draft position. If anything he can be moved again once resigned. I don't think the Knicks can offer a better young player unless they give up RJ.

They can beat the offer if they loosen protections on their own picks but I don't think they want to do that whereas the Raptors may be more willing to give up picks with looser protections with the assumption that we will be good

[dr0welf]

If the Raptors were theoretically able to move OG to a 3rd team for picks (lets say Orlando gives up their top 4 protected Chicago pick and another protected first for OG) and add 3-4 of our own with Trent as the main piece coming back, would that be enough for Don?

Trent, Thad or Birch, Chi 23, Orl protected 23, Raptors unprotected 23, + 3 future picks +/- swaps for Mitchell

You'd have to pay Trent, but he's a 23 year old talent that has been improving his creation skills. He's good enough to have upside but still not good enough to not compromise your draft position. If anything he can be moved again once resigned. I don't think the Knicks can offer a better young player unless they give up RJ.

They can beat the offer if they loosen protections on their own picks but I don't think they want to do that whereas the Raptors may be more willing to give up picks with looser protections with the assumption that we will be good

I think it could be something to look at if we included say Lakers in on this. Send Trent and Thad along with Conley to Lakers for 2 picks. Costs you guys the same but gets us 2 more 1st round picks.

Toronto in: Mitchell
Lakers in: Trent, That, Conley
Utah in: Westbrook, Chi 21, Orl protected 23, Raptors unprotected 23, 25, 27; Raptors 24 Swap, Lakers 2 1st round picks

[UnbelievablyRAW]

If the Raptors were theoretically able to move OG to a 3rd team for picks (lets say Orlando gives up their top 4 protected Chicago pick and another protected first for OG) and add 3-4 of our own with Trent as the main piece coming back, would that be enough for Don?

Trent, Thad or Birch, Chi 23, Orl protected 23, Raptors unprotected 23, + 3 future picks +/- swaps for Mitchell

You'd have to pay Trent, but he's a 23 year old talent that has been improving his creation skills. He's good enough to have upside but still not good enough to not compromise your draft position. If anything he can be moved again once resigned. I don't think the Knicks can offer a better young player unless they give up RJ.

They can beat the offer if they loosen protections on their own picks but I don't think they want to do that whereas the Raptors may be more willing to give up picks with looser protections with the assumption that we will be good

I think it could be something to look at if we included say Lakers in on this. Send Trent and Thad along with Conley to Lakers for 2 picks. Costs you guys the same but gets us 2 more 1st round picks.

Toronto in: Mitchell
Lakers in: Trent, That, Conley
Utah in: Westbrook, Chi 21, Orl protected 23, Raptors unprotected 23, 25, 27; Raptors 24 Swap, Lakers 2 1st round picks

Agreed on the framework. If the Raptors are expected to add that many unprotected picks then I’d hope we’d get another bench piece (Beasley?) back ad well. If not, the 25 and 27th picks are coming with probably top 4-5 and top 10 protections. It’s 7 picks and a swap, more than you’d get anywhere else

[YogurtProducer]

If the Raptors were theoretically able to move OG to a 3rd team for picks (lets say Orlando gives up their top 4 protected Chicago pick and another protected first for OG) and add 3-4 of our own with Trent as the main piece coming back, would that be enough for Don?

Trent, Thad or Birch, Chi 23, Orl protected 23, Raptors unprotected 23, + 3 future picks +/- swaps for Mitchell

You'd have to pay Trent, but he's a 23 year old talent that has been improving his creation skills. He's good enough to have upside but still not good enough to not compromise your draft position. If anything he can be moved again once resigned. I don't think the Knicks can offer a better young player unless they give up RJ.

They can beat the offer if they loosen protections on their own picks but I don't think they want to do that whereas the Raptors may be more willing to give up picks with looser protections with the assumption that we will be good

I think it could be something to look at if we included say Lakers in on this. Send Trent and Thad along with Conley to Lakers for 2 picks. Costs you guys the same but gets us 2 more 1st round picks.

Toronto in: Mitchell
Lakers in: Trent, That, Conley
Utah in: Westbrook, Chi 21, Orl protected 23, Raptors unprotected 23, 25, 27; Raptors 24 Swap, Lakers 2 1st round picks

Agreed on the framework. If the Raptors are expected to add that many unprotected picks then I’d hope we’d get another bench piece (Beasley?) back ad well. If not, the 25 and 27th picks are coming with probably top 4-5 and top 10 protections. It’s 7 picks and a swap, more than you’d get anywhere else

There is 0 chance the raptors give up Gary AND Anunoby AND picks. Literallly 0 chance