Political Roundtable Part XXXI

[Zonkerbl]

More evidence that Republican forced birth policy is based on hate - they simply hate women and don't want them to have any say over their bodies

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/07/abortion-ban-life-of-the-mother-exception/670582/

[Zonkerbl]

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[pancakes3]

There is a long tradition of blaming consumers for problems caused by bad industrial actors. Recycling - we could just ban the use of plastics, for example, why are consumers responsible for a problem plastic producers are creating?

Conservation is a nice idea but it is really blaming the victim, and what is the incentive? People are rational, they will turn off lights and monitor thermostats as much as it makes sense for them to do so, without adding a carbon tax into electrical prices there is no incentive to conserve any more than we already are.

I think that most people act rationally. Although I do think there are a few bad actors that could burden the energy sector. For instance, my friend takes 1 hour showers everyday. I know someone who used the gas fireplace in Spring. Most people are rational (maybe) but there are also irrational people.

americans are really desensitized towards water conservation because it's so cheap - see e.g. lawn care, golf courses, pool ownership

[Zonkerbl]

There is a long tradition of blaming consumers for problems caused by bad industrial actors. Recycling - we could just ban the use of plastics, for example, why are consumers responsible for a problem plastic producers are creating?

Conservation is a nice idea but it is really blaming the victim, and what is the incentive? People are rational, they will turn off lights and monitor thermostats as much as it makes sense for them to do so, without adding a carbon tax into electrical prices there is no incentive to conserve any more than we already are.

I think that most people act rationally. Although I do think there are a few bad actors that could burden the energy sector. For instance, my friend takes 1 hour showers everyday. I know someone who used the gas fireplace in Spring. Most people are rational (maybe) but there are also irrational people.

americans are really desensitized towards water conservation because it's so cheap - see e.g. lawn care, golf courses, pool ownership

John Oliver did a piece on this recently, particularly the relationship between the western states and the Colorado river.

The Western states are experiencing ACUTE, life threatening droughts right now, and yet they've done nothing to curb the MASSIVE use of fresh water for irrigation, particularly almond producers. It's mind numbing to me. Prices matter. That's how you get people to conserve - make wasting water expensive. Including farmers!!!

It's a problem in all our client countries also. Paying any price at all for water is completely alien to a lot of these countries. It's a neoliberal idea that doesn't always get a lot of traction, particularly because it will put a disproportional burden on poor people.

[popper]

I've never understood why coastal Washington doesn't collect, sell and transport via pipelines, their abundant supply of fresh water to drought stricken western states. Maybe I'm missing something.

[pancakes3]

^I assume Popper's proposal is what Zonk was talking about when he said that Republicans are very pro-climate adaptation

And frustratingly, there's complete stonewalling when it comes to adaptation proposals that Dems are interested in. There's a great wailing and gnashing of teeth when it comes to GND, but at the same time, enormous GOP voter appetite for proposals that build sea walls to combat rising levels, or water pipelines.

fwiw, https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/05/25/the-disappearing-river

here is a long-form piece that discusses the complexities of water rights and the Colorado river specifically.

[Zonkerbl]

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[dobrojim]

A case study^ in how to get just about everything wrong in setting up and running
a clinical trial/study. I studied this awful story in a bioethics class I took for my MS.

[dobrojim]

I've never understood why coastal Washington doesn't collect, sell and transport via pipelines, their abundant supply of fresh water to drought stricken western states. Maybe I'm missing something.

With all due respect, there are a number of very good reasons why this is not a practical idea.
Borrowing from Peter to pay Paul or more explicitly, damaging one ecosystem in an attempt
to fix another.

Kinda like trying to get people to not say Gay (or curly hair). For every complicated problem,
there is a simple answer, and that answer is generally wrong.

[dobrojim]

There is a long tradition of blaming consumers for problems caused by bad industrial actors. Recycling - we could just ban the use of plastics, for example, why are consumers responsible for a problem plastic producers are creating?

Conservation is a nice idea but it is really blaming the victim, and what is the incentive? People are rational, they will turn off lights and monitor thermostats as much as it makes sense for them to do so, without adding a carbon tax into electrical prices there is no incentive to conserve any more than we already are.

I'm not sure I understand when you say conservation is blaming the victim.
Because of the outstanding ROI, conservation investments are and have been
widely adapted for decades. Investing in using (and needing) less energy to
achieve the same or better result has been a windfall for consumers.

[Zonkerbl]

There are questions being asked about the second sentence of my post that are answered in the first sentence of my post

If the coal lobby was not so successful in 1) denying climate change even exists and 2) preventing us from switching to alternative fuels we wouldn't need to conserve in the first place.

[Zonkerbl]

^I assume Popper's proposal is what Zonk was talking about when he said that Republicans are very pro-climate adaptation

And frustratingly, there's complete stonewalling when it comes to adaptation proposals that Dems are interested in. There's a great wailing and gnashing of teeth when it comes to GND, but at the same time, enormous GOP voter appetite for proposals that build sea walls to combat rising levels, or water pipelines.

fwiw, https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/05/25/the-disappearing-river

here is a long-form piece that discusses the complexities of water rights and the Colorado river specifically.

The neoliberal solution to this problem is to assign property rights to water (to someone) and let everyone who wants to use it bid on it. Maybe Washington will sell water to LA, maybe almond farmers will cut their production in half.

[Wizardspride]

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[Zonkerbl]

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Omg I saw this going around yesterday. If the Jan 6 rioters were black they would ALL BE DEAD, you ignorant racist

[dobrojim]

There are questions being asked about the second sentence of my post that are answered in the first sentence of my post

If the coal lobby was not so successful in 1) denying climate change even exists and 2) preventing us from switching to alternative fuels we wouldn't need to conserve in the first place.

Things that make excellent economic sense are never NOT needed.

(edit to add - well maybe I should not have stated that quite that way given how
economic benefits are distributed and I generally try to stay away from absolute statements
such as ones using the words always or never)

Investments in conservation are typically very good investments.
Conservation has been and likely will continue to be one of if not
the most cost effective sources of energy that we have.

[Zonkerbl]

My ideal world is a socialist Star Trek "technology has eliminated scarcity" thing where we don't judge people by what they consume but rather what they create

[Zonkerbl]

Intentionally vague forced birth legislation is hate-fueled murder

"It was because of the state law which forbids termination of a pregnancy as long as there is fetal cardiac activity. The law, which still remains in effect, does contain one exception – for a "medical emergency." But there is no definition for that term in the statute. No one really knows what the legislature means by that, and they are afraid of overstepping."

This is someone who is INSURED

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[Wizardspride]

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[Zonkerbl]

Finally

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Ponder swung a pole at a Capitol police officer on the Capitol’s West Plaza, breaking it against the officer’s shield. After retreating into the crowd, Ponder grabbed a sturdier pole colored in red, white, and blue stripes. He used it to assault two other officers, hitting one of them in the left shoulder, before police detained and handcuffed him.

[pancakes3]

law and order