What were Kareem’s strengths/weaknesses on defense?

[1993Playoffs]

I usually see Kareem‘s defense rate pretty highly but not quite as high as the all-time great defensive centers like Hakeem , Russell, wilt , Duncan etc

Why is that? Was he not as committed defensively? Did his defense decline earlier?

[kcktiny]

Alcindor/Jabbar was named to the all-defensive team 10 times in 15 seasons - all-defensive 1st team 5 times, all-defensive 2nd team 5 times.

There's been 3400+ players play in the NBA since 1968-69, when the league first started naming all-defensive players. I'm guessing few have also been named all-defense 10+ times, and fewer still were committed defensively like he was. He was named to an all-defensive team when he was age 23, and when he was the age of 36.

Anyone that does not consider him an all-time great defender on par with the best likely did not see him play over the length of his career.

[wojoaderge]

Perhaps he wasn't as good guarding other offensive-minded centers. For example:

https://stathead.com/basketball/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&player_id1=abdulka01&player_id2=malonmo01
https://stathead.com/basketball/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&player_id1=abdulka01&player_id2=gilmoar01
https://stathead.com/basketball/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&player_id1=abdulka01&player_id2=isselda01
https://stathead.com/basketball/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&player_id1=abdulka01&player_id2=carrojo01

[ODanseTron]

I watched a lot of his prime and definitely his Lakers years. Pretty good shot blocker and rim protector though not on the level of say Russell, Hakeem, peak Shaq, Wilt, Duncan, etc. Struggled against bigger bodied players which leads to his rating in man to man post defense as average at best. Not the best pick & roll defender nor was he capable of switching out to the perimeter and recovering or guarding perimeter players the way a more agile and mobile big like Giannis or Garnett could. Defensively he did not have the impact the elite wings of all time did either.

Overall Wilt was definitely a better 2-way player. Hakeem is questionable as well due to his far superior defense, though likely not because of the gap in offense.

[falcolombardi]

His mobility and lenght made him a huge block threath ans deterrent inside, think of him like a slightly less quick and somewhat slower to react rudy gobert

I thought watching him he was not as active in hustle plays (thingh diving for a loose ball) plays and didnt step too much off the paint which granted was not too needed at the time (i have watched his 77 version more here dunno about his bucks years D)

I dont think he lacked strenght (at least by 77') he looks stronger than walton in their matchup and able to push big bill off his spots (on both ends)

Maybe is walton who was not as strong as he looked but regardless he looks out-strenght'd by kareem

[capfan33]

Great rim protector and his length generally made him intimidating.
Very mobile for his size and could switch out on perimeter players for the time and was good in the pick and roll.
Good help defender and rarely made egregious errors.

Didn't have a great motor, especially after his 1st few years.
When he wasn't going all out his reactions were inconsistent.
Had some bad habits like jumping and landing out of position, not good jumping quickly/off 2 feet, etc.
Not a great post-defender, not physical enough.

70sFan had some great data/film on him that suggests he was a notch below the best ever but still very good. When fully engaged he was comparable but a bit worse than Russell, Hakeem, Robinson, etc.

[Cavsfansince84]

Worth noting that the Bucks were rated #1 on DRtg in 71&72 and #2 in 73&74 which usually reflects well on whichever player is the defensive anchor, more so back then. I think chances are Kareem wins 1 or 2 dpoys if they'd been around which changes the perception of him somewhat now or at least adds weight to his goat credentials.

[Samurai]

Perhaps he wasn't as good guarding other offensive-minded centers. For example:

https://stathead.com/basketball/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&player_id1=abdulka01&player_id2=malonmo01
https://stathead.com/basketball/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&player_id1=abdulka01&player_id2=gilmoar01
https://stathead.com/basketball/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&player_id1=abdulka01&player_id2=isselda01
https://stathead.com/basketball/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&player_id1=abdulka01&player_id2=carrojo01

While I think it is true that he was a better help defender than a man defender, particularly during his physical prime in the 70's, many of the match-ups selected include a heavy reliance on data from the 80's when Kareem was past his prime. From what I have seen, he was a better defender between 71-77 than he was in the 80's; quicker, more agile and better endurance/motor when he was in his 20's than when he was in his 30's and 40's.

[wojoaderge]

Perhaps he wasn't as good guarding other offensive-minded centers. For example:

https://stathead.com/basketball/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&player_id1=abdulka01&player_id2=malonmo01
https://stathead.com/basketball/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&player_id1=abdulka01&player_id2=gilmoar01
https://stathead.com/basketball/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&player_id1=abdulka01&player_id2=isselda01
https://stathead.com/basketball/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&player_id1=abdulka01&player_id2=carrojo01

While I think it is true that he was a better help defender than a man defender, particularly during his physical prime in the 70's, many of the match-ups selected include a heavy reliance on data from the 80's when Kareem was past his prime. From what I have seen, he was a better defender between 71-77 than he was in the 80's; quicker, more agile and better endurance/motor when he was in his 20's than when he was in his 30's and 40's.

That's what we have access to unfortunately. Tried to do Lanier and McAdoo and it was incomplete

[DQuinn1575]

Perhaps he wasn't as good guarding other offensive-minded centers. For example:

https://stathead.com/basketball/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&player_id1=abdulka01&player_id2=malonmo01
https://stathead.com/basketball/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&player_id1=abdulka01&player_id2=gilmoar01
https://stathead.com/basketball/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&player_id1=abdulka01&player_id2=isselda01
https://stathead.com/basketball/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&player_id1=abdulka01&player_id2=carrojo01

While I think it is true that he was a better help defender than a man defender, particularly during his physical prime in the 70's, many of the match-ups selected include a heavy reliance on data from the 80's when Kareem was past his prime. From what I have seen, he was a better defender between 71-77 than he was in the 80's; quicker, more agile and better endurance/motor when he was in his 20's than when he was in his 30's and 40's.

That's what we have access to unfortunately. Tried to do Lanier and McAdoo and it was incomplete

Against a McAdoo, like Issel in your example, and Cowens he did not go out to guard the perimeter so all 3 were able to score vs him.
Big strong guys like Gilmore and Moses also gave him trouble, especially as he aged.
He wouldn't go out on the perimeter and guard jump shooters or guards, he learned to stay home in the lane, block shots, and rebounds.

[tsherkin]

From what I have seen, he was a better defender between 71-77 than he was in the 80's; quicker, more agile and better endurance/motor when he was in his 20's than when he was in his 30's and 40's.

Makes sense, really.

[Statlanta]

Wilt said he didn't go as hard for rebounds.

Waiting for 70sFan to way in on the thread.

[capfan33]

While I think it is true that he was a better help defender than a man defender, particularly during his physical prime in the 70's, many of the match-ups selected include a heavy reliance on data from the 80's when Kareem was past his prime. From what I have seen, he was a better defender between 71-77 than he was in the 80's; quicker, more agile and better endurance/motor when he was in his 20's than when he was in his 30's and 40's.

That's what we have access to unfortunately. Tried to do Lanier and McAdoo and it was incomplete

Against a McAdoo, like Issel in your example, and Cowens he did not go out to guard the perimeter so all 3 were able to score vs him.
Big strong guys like Gilmore and Moses also gave him trouble, especially as he aged.
He wouldn't go out on the perimeter and guard jump shooters or guards, he learned to stay home in the lane, block shots, and rebounds.

This was an issue at times for Wilt as well.

Also, earlier on in his career he did sometimes go out and guard perimeter players on switches/pick and roll, but as he aged it got rarer even though he was still capable of doing it.