Peak Harden closer to peak Derozan or Jordan?

[TheLand13]

Peak Harden was an all time great. He's definitely closer to Jordan than DeRozan.

An all time great is, at the very least, a good defender.

[Lockdown504090]

Peak Harden was an all time great. He's definitely closer to Jordan than DeRozan.

An all time great is, at the very least, a good defender.

Peak harden played pretty decent on defense with the scheme the rockets ran. 17, 18, and 19 I thought his switching actually caused problems for opposing teams running goood offense, yeah he sucks at what you typically want from a guard, but he did certainly have a niche, and we give guys like steph and jokic a pass for being the same as well

[dhsilv2]

Peak Harden was an all time great. He's definitely closer to Jordan than DeRozan.

An all time great is, at the very least, a good defender.

Peak harden played pretty decent on defense with the scheme the rockets ran. 17, 18, and 19 I thought his switching actually caused problems for opposing teams running goood offense, yeah he sucks at what you typically want from a guard, but he did certainly have a niche, and we give guys like steph and jokic a pass for being the same as well

I mean was magic a good defender? He wasn't a bad one by any means, but good? Moses was likely a good defender but not really vs other big men of similar stature. Given Harden is more like a top 35 guy than a top 15-20 guy, you'd have him around a lot of other guys who were good at one side or the other. And to your point, harden in his best years was actually a solid average defender who did cause team's problems with his defense.

[NBA4Lyfe]

Peak Harden was an all time great. He's definitely closer to Jordan than DeRozan.

An all time great is, at the very least, a good defender.

explain, stephen curry, steve nash, and dirk nowitizi

[TheLand13]

Peak Harden was an all time great. He's definitely closer to Jordan than DeRozan.

An all time great is, at the very least, a good defender.

explain, stephen curry, steve nash, and dirk nowitizi

I would definitely argue that Curry is a good defender at his best.

Nash and Dirk, at least in my view, are not all time greats.

[LarsV8]

An all time great is, at the very least, a good defender.

explain, stephen curry, steve nash, and dirk nowitizi

I would definitely argue that Curry is a good defender at his best.

Nash and Dirk, at least in my view, are not all time greats.

In no way, shape or form, is Curry a good defender.

[sp6r=underrated]

Peak Harden was an all time great. He's definitely closer to Jordan than DeRozan.

An all time great is, at the very least, a good defender.

Magic Johnson is a consensus top 10 player all-time and spent most seasons being a below average defender.

[YogurtProducer]

An all time great is, at the very least, a good defender.

explain, stephen curry, steve nash, and dirk nowitizi

I would definitely argue that Curry is a good defender at his best.

Nash and Dirk, at least in my view, are not all time greats.

Damn all these former MVPs aren’t all time greats?!?!?!

[TheLand13]

explain, stephen curry, steve nash, and dirk nowitizi

I would definitely argue that Curry is a good defender at his best.

Nash and Dirk, at least in my view, are not all time greats.

Damn all these former MVPs aren’t all time greats?!?!?!

If you want to consider a top 30 to be all time, then sure. But to me, an all time great is top ten or near that ranking. None of those guys apart from Curry are in that conversation.

I'll gladly eat crow for the Magic Johnson one (which multiple people have pointed out). I completely forgot about him when I made that statement.

[TheLand13]

explain, stephen curry, steve nash, and dirk nowitizi

I would definitely argue that Curry is a good defender at his best.

Nash and Dirk, at least in my view, are not all time greats.

In no way, shape or form, is Curry a good defender.

Not to turn this into a thread about Curry, but what are you basing this off of? Curry is elite at playing the passing lanes with very good off ball instincts. He doesn't get caught ball watching like a lot of players tend to do and he will typically stick to his man. And he's even proven himself to have pretty good awareness at that end.

And since people love using statistics so much when evaluating someone's defense, I guess I'll do the same using stats showcasing how well players do when guarded by Curry.

https://bluemanhoop.com/2022/05/25/stephen-curry-underrated-defender-whole-career/#:~:text=Stephen%20Curry%20is%20receiving%20plaudits,automatic%20target%20for%20opposition%20offenses.

But when we glance back to Curry’s earlier years, was he wrongly painted as a straight up bad defender? Looking back to the Warriors first championship in 2015, Curry had a defensive field goal percentage of 38.7%.

Again, in contrast, players like DeRozan, his teammate at the time Kyle Lowry, Mike Conley and C.J McCollum all sat above 48%. Throughout the past six postseasons, Curry’s highest defensive field goal percentage has been 44.7%.

In 2017-18, he was matched up defensively on James Harden for just over 17 minutes of the classic seven game series. Harden made 19 of his 45 field goal attempts, the 42.2% basically mirroring his overall shooting percentage for those playoffs.

In that same series, Curry was the primary defender on Chris Paul for 15 field goal attempts – he made six. Come the NBA Finals he was switched onto LeBron James for nearly ten minutes across the four games, with Curry too keeping James to 6-for-15 from the field.

Fast-forward back to the current postseason and Curry has done a fantastic job when switched onto superstars Doncic and Ja Morant. That pair is a combined 7-for-20 (35%) from the field when defended by Curry, including 4-for-11 (36.4%) from three-point range.

That's just from the first article I found. There are in fact multiple on the first page alone pointing out that Curry doesn't get the credit he deserves for his defense. And why, might that be? I have three theories:

1. People know that Curry is the weakest link at that end with his best Warriors teams. But that doesn't necessarily mean he's a bad defender. Draymond and Klay are all team worthy defenders, as was Bogut. Barnes was no slouch at that end himself. Durant became a really great defender once he joined the Warriors. Iggy literally won a finals MVP award for his defense on LeBron James. Of course teams are going to target the smallest player who isn't capable of switching on other players.

2. There are people out there who just assume that, due to Curry's weak defensive ratings, lack of defensive accolades (even though he led the league in steals at one point, although that doesn't necessarily mean that person is a great defender, just ask Iverson), and weak reputation in that department, that Curry is some slouch at that end. I've seen people do the same thing with Kyle Lowry, and that's just a stupid way to evaluate how good someone is at that end.

3. The Kyrie Irving shot. We all know how that went. Cavaliers forced a switch to get Curry on Irving and the rest is history. But why is this proof that he's not a good defender? Of course he's going to want Curry to be the one defending him. It's either that or Thompson, who I just said is an all team worthy defender.

With the improvements Curry's made at that end this past season, I would have thought by now that people would have stopped claiming Curry isn't a good defender. But I guess not.

[God Squad]

Peak Harden getting underrated with time. Definitely closer to Jordan than DeMar, but still way off from Jordan.

[NBA4Lyfe]

I would definitely argue that Curry is a good defender at his best.

Nash and Dirk, at least in my view, are not all time greats.

In no way, shape or form, is Curry a good defender.

Not to turn this into a thread about Curry, but what are you basing this off of? Curry is elite at playing the passing lanes with very good off ball instincts. He doesn't get caught ball watching like a lot of players tend to do and he will typically stick to his man. And he's even proven himself to have pretty good awareness at that end.

And since people love using statistics so much when evaluating someone's defense, I guess I'll do the same using stats showcasing how well players do when guarded by Curry.

https://bluemanhoop.com/2022/05/25/stephen-curry-underrated-defender-whole-career/#:~:text=Stephen%20Curry%20is%20receiving%20plaudits,automatic%20target%20for%20opposition%20offenses.

But when we glance back to Curry’s earlier years, was he wrongly painted as a straight up bad defender? Looking back to the Warriors first championship in 2015, Curry had a defensive field goal percentage of 38.7%.

Again, in contrast, players like DeRozan, his teammate at the time Kyle Lowry, Mike Conley and C.J McCollum all sat above 48%. Throughout the past six postseasons, Curry’s highest defensive field goal percentage has been 44.7%.

In 2017-18, he was matched up defensively on James Harden for just over 17 minutes of the classic seven game series. Harden made 19 of his 45 field goal attempts, the 42.2% basically mirroring his overall shooting percentage for those playoffs.

In that same series, Curry was the primary defender on Chris Paul for 15 field goal attempts – he made six. Come the NBA Finals he was switched onto LeBron James for nearly ten minutes across the four games, with Curry too keeping James to 6-for-15 from the field.

Fast-forward back to the current postseason and Curry has done a fantastic job when switched onto superstars Doncic and Ja Morant. That pair is a combined 7-for-20 (35%) from the field when defended by Curry, including 4-for-11 (36.4%) from three-point range.

That's just from the first article I found. There are in fact multiple on the first page alone pointing out that Curry doesn't get the credit he deserves for his defense. And why, might that be? I have three theories:

1. People know that Curry is the weakest link at that end with his best Warriors teams. But that doesn't necessarily mean he's a bad defender. Draymond and Klay are all team worthy defenders, as was Bogut. Barnes was no slouch at that end himself. Durant became a really great defender once he joined the Warriors. Iggy literally won a finals MVP award for his defense on LeBron James. Of course teams are going to target the smallest player who isn't capable of switching on other players.

2. There are people out there who just assume that, due to Curry's weak defensive ratings, lack of defensive accolades (even though he led the league in steals at one point, although that doesn't necessarily mean that person is a great defender, just ask Iverson), and weak reputation in that department, that Curry is some slouch at that end. I've seen people do the same thing with Kyle Lowry, and that's just a stupid way to evaluate how good someone is at that end.

3. The Kyrie Irving shot. We all know how that went. Cavaliers forced a switch to get Curry on Irving and the rest is history. But why is this proof that he's not a good defender? Of course he's going to want Curry to be the one defending him. It's either that or Thompson, who I just said is an all team worthy defender.

With the improvements Curry's made at that end this past season, I would have thought by now that people would have stopped claiming Curry isn't a good defender. But I guess not.

Curry is not a great defender, the warriors have to overspend on switchable wings like kelly oubre,klay, wiggins, iggy, otto porter, gp2, and draymond. Curry would be trae young if he had to handle the play-making duties he shares with draymond and then also have to defend, we saw a little bit of this in 2021

[NBA4Lyfe]

I would definitely argue that Curry is a good defender at his best.

Nash and Dirk, at least in my view, are not all time greats.

Damn all these former MVPs aren’t all time greats?!?!?!

If you want to consider a top 30 to be all time, then sure. But to me, an all time great is top ten or near that ranking. None of those guys apart from Curry are in that conversation.

I'll gladly eat crow for the Magic Johnson one (which multiple people have pointed out). I completely forgot about him when I made that statement.

20 years from now, steph curry is gonna fall further and further down peoples list. he has barely 20k points for his career in his 14th season and is known as a scoring guard, never made an all-defensive team, harden was also drafted in 2009 like curry, but harden has a higher career vorp, bpm, and win shares per 48 than curry. Plus harden is top 3 all time in 3 pointers made ever. So whats really currys advantage over harden. That he had an owner that was willing to spend more money than any other team to get the warriors to win

[NBA4Lyfe]

Peak Harden was an all time great. He's definitely closer to Jordan than DeRozan.

An all time great is, at the very least, a good defender.

Magic Johnson is a consensus top 10 player all-time and spent most seasons being a below average defender.

stephen curry as a talent is closer to steve nash than he is too magic. Magic was just way more well rounded. He unlike curry could control the tempo of a game. Its something you either have or you dont have. A few of the guards who can do that in todays game are luka, cp3, harden, and lebron( although he rarely plays pg)

[NBA4Lyfe]

Peak Harden getting underrated with time. Definitely closer to Jordan than DeMar, but still way off from Jordan.

harden will be viewed like wilt years after he retires. Wilt actually was not as liked as a player back when he played. The players would routinely vote againist him for mvps( that was back when the players voted on awards). He was seen as a black hole on offense that chased stats and numbers. Off the court he was also similar to harden as he was just naturally gifted and didnt have to work out or train( loved to party), harden in the past would routinely come into a season overweight but still finish top 1 or 2 in mvp voting

their is no current or past comparison for james harden. You wanna say he is carmelo anthony( carmelo was never efficent and certainly not the floor general harden is). You wanna say he is kobe( harden was more efficent than kobe as well) or bill simmons calls him george gervin( but gervin averaged what 2 maybe 3 assists for his career). Harden 15-20 years after he retires it wouldnt shock me at all if he is viewed as top 15-20 all-time. The closest player we have seen to harden is oscar robertson according to basketball reference. same height, same build. Both guards who led tremendous offenses and were huge effiecent volume scorers

[TheLand13]

Curry is not a great defender, the warriors have to overspend on switchable wings like kelly oubre,klay, wiggins, iggy, otto porter, gp2, and draymond. Curry would be trae young if he had to handle the play-making duties he shares with draymond and then also have to defend, we saw a little bit of this in 2021

When did I say Curry was a great defender?

20 years from now, steph curry is gonna fall further and further down peoples list. he has barely 20k points for his career in his 14th season and is known as a scoring guard, never made an all-defensive team, harden was also drafted in 2009 like curry, but harden has a higher career vorp, bpm, and win shares per 48 than curry. Plus harden is top 3 all time in 3 pointers made ever. So whats really currys advantage over harden. That he had an owner that was willing to spend more money than any other team to get the warriors to win

And what makes you think Harden isn't going to fall further and further down people's lists and Curry will? Curry just won another championship whilst dominating the best defensive team he ever faced in the finals, including the DPOY who was guarding him for most of the series. Harden on the other hand is coming off of another disappointing playoff series with an embarrassing elimination game performance and will more than likely have another this season given his track record in that department.

What advantages does Curry have over Harden? Is this a series question? Despite only have 20k points for his career, he has more career three pointers made, he's broken multiple NBA records, he has more MVP's than Harden, more championships, and the simple fact of the matter is that he was a better player on both ends of the floor. He was a more efficient scorer (despite shooting far more threes), he's a better playmaker, a better defender, and all around just a much better teammate. I guess you can give Harden the advantage at drawing fouls and passing? Doesn't seem to have done him much good over the course of his career.

stephen curry as a talent is closer to steve nash than he is too magic. Magic was just way more well rounded. He unlike curry could control the tempo of a game. Its something you either have or you dont have. A few of the guards who can do that in todays game are luka, cp3, harden, and lebron( although he rarely plays pg)

Harden has never, at any point in his career, proven that he's capable of controlling the tempo of a game. Don't try to tell us otherwise, we know you have a man crush on the dude and are going to say anything to defend him.

harden will be viewed like wilt years after he retires.

This is almost as laughable as that time you claimed Harden would get the largest max contract in NBA history. How'd that work out for him by the way?