Is Tatum a #1 option on a Championship team

[Optms]

He is a bum first option. He already was exposed by the Warriors.

[ryan in Maine]

He just made the finals in that role. So yes....how are their people voting otherwise?

Ballternative facts.

[Harry Garris]

Well, yeah. The Celtics got to the championship and came at least fairly close to winning it. Obviously the dude is capable of being a #1 option on a championship team because he's already come very close to doing it.

I really hate the concept of "can this guy be the #1 guy" because it's SO context dependent.

What sort of team are you surrounding him with? If he has an incredible supporting cast, he probably doesn't need to be one of the five best players in the league and could still win a title. If his support cast is pretty weak he could be the best player in the league and still wouldn't be good enough to lead the team to a championship.

It also depends a lot on the competition. In a year like last year when we had a bunch of impactful injuries to star players all throughout the league the quality of competition was a bit lower than it typically is, and so the barrier to entry for "being a #1 guy" was not as high.

[skones]

Lacking so much talent? It feels like the league has more true superstars now than in the last 20 years. There are like 9 dudes who could legitimately win MVP next year and not be a total surprise.

What? The current NBA has the deepest pool of talent ever. Next year’s MVP favorites are all foreign players, which gives you an idea of how deep the overall player pool is.

Hmm no.

You basically have Giannis, Jokic, and Doncic as true superstars in the league right now, with Embiid borderline. Everyone else is close too or already on decline.

Compared to 2010-2020 where you had prime / peak Lebron, Paul, Durant, Harden, Curry, Kawhi, and to a lesser extent Lillard, Davis, Westbrook, Howard...

From a competitive standpoint, the NBA right now is a terrible product. Hoping the last few drafts (Ant, Cade, Green, Mobley, Chet, Barnes, Banchero) can restock the talent pool, because its a bit of a joke right now.

This is pretty dishonest. A player doesn't need to be in their physical prime to actually win MVP. To act like Curry, LeBron, Tatum, or Durant couldn't absolutely win it next year feels entirely like you're intentionally putting blinders on. Then you've got prospective leap guys in Ja Morant and Devin Booker who could put their names into the mix.

Nevermind that Lillard, Davis, and Kawhi were never serious contenders for the award.

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[KrazyP]

We had these same bad takes on Giannis the 2 years before he won. A bad matchup in the playoffs or even a bad series doesn't suddenly drop a player out of being able to play at this level of a playoff run. The warriors did a number on him, but they were a top tier defense all year and they matched up well with boston. Just like the raptors and heat were well suited to build that "wall" on giannis. Just like Curry "chokes, is too small, always gets hurt" and then 2022 he powers his team through to a title.

What are you trying to say here? You think Tatum is in the same tier as guys that recently won championship like Curry/Giannis/Lebron/Kawhi/Durant?

He's certainly as good an offensive player as Giannis. The last few winners outside of Giannis either had an unusually exceptional run (leonard) or are just all time great offensive players (Curry and Lebron).

Giannis during the Bucks championship run, put up 30pts on .600 TS%. During the regular season over the last several years he's been hovering around .630 TS% on high usage.

Saying Kawhi Leonard had an unusually exceptional run is disingenuous ---- he had track record of massively impactful playoff performances. In 2016-2017 he looked like he might have a chance to single handedly take out the Warriors before getting injured by Zaza on a dirty play.

If you look at the last 10 or so championships ---- 30 ppg on 30%+ usage and .600 TS% is generally the benchmark for 1st option types that can will their teams to victory in tough games. Tatum hasnt had a single season with that level of output and efficiency yet (regular season or playoffs).

When people ask, is so and so a 1st option championship type player, they are generally asking if they are in the Curry/Lebron/Durant/Kawhi/Giannis level....guys who have been 1st options on like the last 10 championship teams. Tatum is not in this tier. In order to get there, he has to up his scoring efficiency significantly and/or improve his playmaking.

[Stan]

To flat out say no, when the guy's 24 years old is absolutely ludicrous lol. Most players hit their peak in their mid to late 20's, and there's no reason to believe Tatum won't improve and potentially hit that BITW conversation. And even if he doesn't, he seems like he's, at worst, a Paul Pierce/PG level player.

To answer the question, I'd expect Tatum to reach a level where he could be the best player on a championship team, hell, he was JUST two wins away from doing it this season lol.

[LarsV8]

This is pretty dishonest. A player doesn't need to be in their physical prime to actually win MVP. To act like Curry, LeBron, Tatum, or Durant couldn't absolutely win it next year feels entirely like you're intentionally putting blinders on. Then you've got prospective leap guys in Ja Morant and Devin Booker who could put their names into the mix.

Nevermind that Lillard, Davis, and Kawhi were never serious contenders for the award.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using RealGM mobile app

This has nothing to do with MVP.

A Tatum led Boston team isn't doing **** in the past ten years with the powerhouses I listed previously.

Only because the talent pool is so watered down now that Boston is in the mix.

[3toheadmelo]

No. Not until his dribble improves and he stops being a liability as a playmaker. I don't think anyone, Tatum's teammates.included, trusts Tatum to make the right pass in pressure situations.

If it's not a pass directly leading to an assist Tatum and Brown get serious tunnel vision.

They're basically glorified Melo's at this point in time...

Blasphemy. I’m a big Melo fan and I can say Tatum is a far superior playmaker.

[NO-KG-AI]

Y'all have to realize how stupid these threads are, if Steph Curry twists his ankle once in the series, suddenly Tatum has championship pedigree, and the ability to lead title teams.

[dhsilv2]

What are you trying to say here? You think Tatum is in the same tier as guys that recently won championship like Curry/Giannis/Lebron/Kawhi/Durant?

He's certainly as good an offensive player as Giannis. The last few winners outside of Giannis either had an unusually exceptional run (leonard) or are just all time great offensive players (Curry and Lebron).

Giannis during the Bucks championship run, put up 30pts on .600 TS%. During the regular season over the last several years he's been hovering around .630 TS% on high usage.

Saying Kawhi Leonard had an unusually exceptional run is disingenuous ---- he had track record of massively impactful playoff performances. In 2016-2017 he looked like he might have a chance to single handedly take out the Warriors before getting injured by Zaza on a dirty play.

If you look at the last 10 or so championships ---- 30 ppg on 30%+ usage and .600 TS% is generally the benchmark for 1st option types that can will their teams to victory in tough games. Tatum hasnt had a single season with that level of output and efficiency yet (regular season or playoffs).

When people ask, is so and so a 1st option championship type player, they are generally asking if they are in the Curry/Lebron/Durant/Kawhi/Giannis level....guys who have been 1st options on like the last 10 championship teams. Tatum is not in this tier. In order to get there, he has to up his scoring efficiency significantly and/or improve his playmaking.

Tatum was right around 28 at around 60 TS% until the finals last year. You're working backwards to then draw a conclusion. The reality is ultimately guys who win also shoot well, a LOT of that is good matches, some luck, and yes being EXTREMELY good. Tatum had a bad series vs the warriors, an all time level defense this year, who peaked in the playoffs and matched up well. Tatum may have just had a few bad shooting nights as well. That's part of the playoffs.

And Leonard played 24 minutes vs the warriors LMFAO! He came nowhere close to doing ANYTHING against the warriors. He maybe could have won a SINGLE game lol!

[Johnny Bball]

Obviously, not yet he isn't.

And its' weird but really don't recall him being close winning the league MVP like Giannis. Either I missed something in the voting or that's just another typical narrative just for arguments sake.

[skones]

This is pretty dishonest. A player doesn't need to be in their physical prime to actually win MVP. To act like Curry, LeBron, Tatum, or Durant couldn't absolutely win it next year feels entirely like you're intentionally putting blinders on. Then you've got prospective leap guys in Ja Morant and Devin Booker who could put their names into the mix.

Nevermind that Lillard, Davis, and Kawhi were never serious contenders for the award.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using RealGM mobile app

This has nothing to do with MVP.

A Tatum led Boston team isn't doing **** in the past ten years with the powerhouses I listed previously.

Only because the talent pool is so watered down now that Boston is in the mix.

Huh? A Tatum led Boston team isn't doing **** against the powerhouses you listed? Must've missed that, but there's a difference between a lesser talent pool and competitive balance. You're falsely equating the two.

Like I said, active blinders, the competitive balance in the league is a bad thing right now and makes a bad product? Wut? That's an entirely different argument all together that has nothing to do with talent pool.

[rtiff68]

If it really is such a no brainer, then why isn't "yes" dominating the poll?

…because instead of answering the actual question in the OP, people use it as a platform to give their opinion on Tatum’s skill-set, where he ranks currently, whether he is a “superstar” (something that is subjective in its own right) or not, etc.

Tatum has been the number 1 option on teams that reached the ECF and the Finals, thus he’s good enough to be the #1 option on a championship team. It’s pretty cut and dry.

let me trim that down for you; everyone is wrong but me. great answer

making the conference finals or finals doesn't automatically make someone capable of winning titles as the #1, there are many who have accomplished those feats who never won and probably could not win unless the deck was stacked in their favor. this year the deck was kinda stacked in Bostons favor and they didn't win

My answer wasn't "great" because it didn't need to be-- you are basically arguing against common sense for whatever reason (you don't like Boston or Tatum as a Bucks fan, perhaps?).

To address your "accomplished feats only because the deck was stacked in their favor" comment, we aren't talking about an outlier like 2004 Rip Hamilton, who was technically the top option and leading scorer on a Pistons team that won the title. We are talking about a guy who, in the last 3 years, has...

-Made the All Star team all 3 years
-Made 2 All NBA Teams, including 1st team last year
-Was the leading scorer and number 1 option on all of these teams, one that made it to Game 6 of the ECF, and another that made it to Game 6 of the Finals

If a player is capable of doing that, he is capable of being the top option on a championship winning team. Again, notice that I am not arguing whether or not Tatum is better than Player X or Player Y, whether he is top 5/10/15, whether he's an MVP caliber player, etc.

Lastly, I think it's a pretty big stretch to say that the "deck was stacked in Boston's favor" this past year. They had to go through Durant and Kyrie, Giannis (yes, I know, without Middleton, which certainly could have swung the series), a good Heat team, and the Curry Warriors.

There have been many, MANY teams that had easier paths to the title than that (yes, counting the injuries). If you disagree, I would LOVE to hear that argument.

[LarsV8]

Huh? A Tatum led Boston team isn't doing **** against the powerhouses you listed? Must've missed that, but there's a difference between a lesser talent pool and competitive balance. You're falsely equating the two.

Like I said, active blinders, the competitive balance in the league is a bad thing right now and makes a bad product? Wut? That's an entirely different argument all together that has nothing to do with talent pool.

I am not falsely equating anything.

You are not following my argument and are not close to addressing the point I made.

[jokeboy86]

All he has to do is shore up his handles and not fall in love with the 3s and I think he's there. He also needs to learn to get low when driving because sometimes he plays way too upright. Almost like something's wrong with his back or something.

[bisme37]

My guy just led all postseason players in total assists as a #1 option on his way to the Finals and the first response is he can't be the #1 option on a title team because he lacks playmaking. What a world haha.

[skones]

Huh? A Tatum led Boston team isn't doing **** against the powerhouses you listed? Must've missed that, but there's a difference between a lesser talent pool and competitive balance. You're falsely equating the two.

Like I said, active blinders, the competitive balance in the league is a bad thing right now and makes a bad product? Wut? That's an entirely different argument all together that has nothing to do with talent pool.

I am not falsely equating anything.

You are not following my argument and are not close to addressing the point I made.

You didn't make an argument at all. You threw out statements without evidence and neglected to back them up. There's literally nothing to follow. I'm done here. Might want to brush up on what an argument actually is.

[Ballerhogger]

Nope. TO way too much. 99% of the time your best player has to be your best playmaker.

[Ballerhogger]

My guy just led all postseason players in total assists as a #1 option on his way to the Finals and the first response is he can't be the #1 option on a title team because he lacks playmaking. What a world haha.

Tatum now holds the record for most turnovers in the playoffs, with 100. He averaged seven assists per game in the finals and is a willing passer, but it is also an obvious weakness. “One thing that he's always done throughout the season was seeing multiple different coverages and (he) figured it out,”

But he also cant hold onto the ball. Ast are nice but not when your the record hold for most TO in the playoffs. They had bring another player to become the playmaker for them.

[Soulyss]

Tatum is not the issue, honestly the Celtics should let this ride, they are in a good, extended window right now.