Political Roundtable Part XXXI

[dckingsfan]

I genuinely wonder what the press is supposed to do about it. It used to be, you exposed the truth that some politician was lying Nazi scum and he would never win an election again. The press didn't have to editorialize at all - we were smart enough to figure it out ourselves. Now that's no longer true.

Too me it is worse than that - it is now the Democrats problem for poor messaging on issue(s) that should be obvious - and that boomerangs back to a "both sides" argument.

Climate change is a perfect example. One side can't get their agenda through (although it looks like that just changed) and the other side is actively pushing the opposition direction... and yet...

Dems are a political party. They don't face the same limits journalists do. They are as well financed as the gop. Incompetence is the only explanation.

I might not be with you there on this one. I don't put it on journalists either though. The Rs broke through with the irrational barrier which is now placed on the Ds to fix (Rs break it and Ds are criticized for not fixing it). The paradigm is a little unwinnable.

Example: Rs are the party of being fiscally conservative. That has totally flipped but the Ds are now being asked about how they are going to fix the budget.

Rs are the party of making sure they evil immigrants don't come in - D's are labeled as soft on immigration. Republican businesses and farmers pushed hard for cheap immigration labor and by and large have kept the illegal immigrants employed. But the Ds are now being asked how they are going to fix immigration.

You get my drift.

[Zonkerbl]

It's fair to say the Republicans have the advantage in that they focus on fear and hate, which is very powerful in our stupid lizard brains, and the Dems don't. And I'm fine with that. But there's no excuse for the Dems to be constantly losing the MSM manipulation war. Republicans are constantly screaming about unfairness when they don't have a leg to stand on. All the Dems have to do is scream just as loudly -- and they have the truth on their side, which journalists are supposed to be motivated by! And yet they still fail, because they're incompetent.

Republicans are humble. They have no illusions about how smart they are, so they hire consultants and they train like crazy on how to stay on message. Since everyone takes the same training, everyone is always, always on message. Down to the last state senator in podunk.flyover-state.gov. Dems political appointees and politicians are smart - they're all from Harvard and Yale and etc. but they're arrogant, thinking they can go it alone. The Republicans work together as a team, the Dems are a bunch of highly educated cats constantly hissing at each other. It's a deliberate choice they make, because of their egos, and that's why they fail, and that's why I call them incompetent. You're facing an opponent that is organized and has tools to use against you that are more powerful than the tools you have. You can't, in the face of that, choose to not be inclusive of every constituency you can, and to figure out a message to hold all those constituencies together. Inclusiveness is that message, and yet the Dems allowed the Republicans to turn "wokeness" and "CRT" into cursewords. And I suspect it's because there are powerful members of the Dem party who agree with the Republicans, they're constantly badmouthing the most passionate members of their own party for "overreach" and not being realistic. Is overturning Roe v Wade unrealistic? That didn't stop the GOP from pursuing it relentlessly for 40 years. If the Dems had pursued global warming legislation as relentlessly as the GOP pursued Roe for the last 40 years, the world wouldn't be on the verge of catastrophe right now.

[Zonkerbl]

I am pleasantly surprised by the Manchin - Schumer bill, two of the Dems who have done the most damage to the Dems prospects by 1) dismissing passionate Dem constituents (Manchin) and 2) being incompetent (Schumer)

Blind squirrels, nuts, etc.

[dckingsfan]

Agree to disagree on the aforementioned explanation of why Rs are winning. I do think you have hit part of the nail on the head with the lizard brain side of their arguments.

In my pea brain, it is still clear to me that emotional arguments beat facts and logic 90 times out of a 100 with the current voters that are in the US.

Take climate change as an example. It is only now that folks are realizing it is important with the mega drought, heat waves and flooding. NOW the Ds could use lizard brain messaging before it was a bunch of scientists talking - pretty much talk that the average person in the population couldn't understand. Physics is hard for some (okay most).

Add Atmospheric and Physical Sciences of Climatology, Meteorology, Atmospheric dynamics, Atmospheric physics, Atmospheric chemistry, Solar physics & Historical climatology to general physics and well - not sure the Ds could have made their point before.

Now add the Earth Sciences which need to be understood, Soil Science, Oceanography, Glaciology, Palaeoclimatology,
Palaeoenvironmental reconstruction and now I am lost.

But then add the Biological Sciences, Ecology, Synthetic biology, Biochemistry, Global change biology, Biogeography, Ecophysiology
and Ecological genetics Mathematics... ouch.

But we aren't done, there is the how study of Statistics and Computational analysis, Applied mathematics, Mathematical modelling, Computer science, Numerical modelling, Bayesian inference, Mathematical statistics and Time series analysis (okay, back to my comfort level).

But I struggle to get through many basic books and studies on climate change. Some of the concepts are way past my complexity ceiling.

And yet, we wanted a logical message to our voters? No chance.

Now however, show the floods, show the heat (as best you can), show the dams running dry - now we have something for the lizard brain to fear.

Edit: Sorry - that was doc long without the prose.

[Wizardspride]

Read on Twitter

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[Wizardspride]

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[Zonkerbl]

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[Wizardspride]

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[Zonkerbl]

:-?

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wtf

[Zonkerbl]

This is not a gotcha question. Yes I am a Democrat, of course I want my party to control the Senate. What is wrong with Democrats that they can't impose any discipline at all???

Like dude, don't say **** like that in public. It hurts YOU. WE are the people you negotiate with. Use your common sense.

[pancakes3]

RIP Bill Russell.

[Wizardspride]

This is not a gotcha question. Yes I am a Democrat, of course I want my party to control the Senate. What is wrong with Democrats that they can't impose any discipline at all???

Like dude, don't say **** like that in public. It hurts YOU. WE are the people you negotiate with. Use your common sense.

That sounds nice but you know that wouldn't work with Manchin...or Sinema for that matter.

I can't believe he said that on national tv....and what makes it crazier is he was just on local WV radio complaining about how he has been ostracized by his fellow Democrats.

Well no **** Joe.

[FAH1223]

Watch on YouTube

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He REALLY wants this bill to pass. Got his credibility on it too.

[Zonkerbl]

I will say that renaming it the "Inflation Reduction Act" is the kind of communications savvy I've been begging the Dems for. Whoever's idea that was, kudos

[Pointgod]

I will say that renaming it the "Inflation Reduction Act" is the kind of communications savvy I've been begging the Dems for. Whoever's idea that was, kudos

Imagine that’s all it took to get Manchin on board lmao. Kind of like the idea of making Republicans vote for Democratic legislation by labeling it as something against Democrats.

[Pointgod]

I’m not a fan of platforming right wing disinformation disguised as news however this is how you do it. Democrats need to find more messengers people that can hammer Republicans on single issues. This is how the disinformation ecosystem works on the right hand side. They create these media bites(mostly just lies) that get amplified through social media and the intention is to always hurt Democrats. There needs to be a 24/7 media machine hammering Republicans, because the big media platforms aren’t going to do it.

Read on Twitter

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[Zonkerbl]

I will say that renaming it the "Inflation Reduction Act" is the kind of communications savvy I've been begging the Dems for. Whoever's idea that was, kudos

Imagine that’s all it took to get Manchin on board lmao. Kind of like the idea of making Republicans vote for Democratic legislation by labeling it as something against Democrats.

I mean, it is a completely different bill. Interestingly it accomplishes much of what the $3+ trillion bill was trying to do - it basically cut out all the "social investment" pork from it and then added in some revenue recovery measures to make it a deficit reducing bill instead of a deficit increasing one. Fox' only talking point is "well technically it does increase taxes which is bad" but it's like arguing "well everybody is already driving 90 and actually enforcing the speed limit would slow everybody down" I think obeying the law is more important than the economy, maybe that's just me. Do you want a booming kleptocracy or a slightly more stagnant democracy with the rule of law?

[Pointgod]

This is not a gotcha question. Yes I am a Democrat, of course I want my party to control the Senate. What is wrong with Democrats that they can't impose any discipline at all???

Like dude, don't say **** like that in public. It hurts YOU. WE are the people you negotiate with. Use your common sense.

That sounds nice but you know that wouldn't work with Manchin...or Sinema for that matter.

I can't believe he said that on national tv....and what makes it crazier is he was just on local WV radio complaining about how he has been ostracized by his fellow Democrats.

Well no **** Joe.

Joe Manchin is what happens when you’ve built your career and every talking point around going against your party. The guy isn’t some secret Republican or wannabe right winger, he’s just an absolute moron. I’ve just recently started watching Veep and I believe that show is a good representation of Washington politics. Just a bunch on incompetent people who work with other incompetent people who often have their own agendas and priorities.

[Zonkerbl]

Read on Twitter

Diehard forced birth couple make choice after choice to have the baby anyway as they learn more and more what's wrong with it. Finally find out it doesn't have a skull and its cerebral fluid is leaking into the placenta and rotting, which will kill the mother. Forced to have an abortion. Tennessee's draconian law goes into effect hours before the scheduled procedure, she's forced to go to Georgia.

Still no "pretty white girl dies from botched back alley abortion" stories yet, thank god. Interesting that all the stories we are hearing are about white girls though.

My biggest concern is that uninsured women will die invisibly - she didn't have insurance, but was covered by medicare. I don't know, maybe we'll survive this stupidity. I feel like black drug addicted women are going to be the ones who die and everyone's just going to shrug their shoulders and say "well they were subhuman anyway"

[Zonkerbl]

Forced birth constitutional amendment in Kansas roundly thumped 58%-41%, a crushing defeat with polls (44% for, 47% against) much closer than the final tally, indicating planned parenthood was able to mobilize a huge turnout from the Democrats.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-abortion-vote-in-kansas-looks-like-its-going-to-be-close/

Having shot themselves in the foot by publicly beheading the Roe v. Wade hostage, the Republicans' go to "minority rule" tactic, to get one issue voters motivated to turn out, should be turned against them at least until the abortion rule is reversed. A large majority of this country does not want to be ruled by policies from the 1860s. I predict the House and Senate will stay in Dem hands and the Dems will gain enough seats in the Senate to potentially overturn the filibuster and stuff the court. I don't think they will though, so it'll be interesting to see if the Dems' disdain for their base ends up backfiring on them in 2024. Now is not the time to be cowardly. Biden is our Neville Chamberlain. Weak, appeasing, fearful, his cowardice will end up encouraging the bullies to push harder. Democracy only works if you take courageous steps to stand up to the bullies in your country. If you cower and snivel they will take over.