Team Canada Basketball Thread V3.0

[mojo13]

Argentina cuts their WCQ roster down to 14 already.

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Notable absenses from the 24 man list are the Buck's camp invite Luca Vildoza (PG/SG), Francisco Cáffaro (C) (inj.), Gonzalo Bressan (C) & Nicolás Romano (PF).

With the an already thin front court and the loss of three depth bigs we are likely going to see them rely heavily on 19 year old prospect Juan Fernandez and mediocre Euro big Marcos Delia. Or we will see allot of small ball from Argentina (probably both).

I'd expect a starting line up something like:
Campazzo (5'10)
Bolmaro (6'6)
Deck (6'6)
Fernandez (6'9)(or Garino 6'7)
Delía (6'10)

Argentina went a lot to small-ball last couple games, not even bothering with a natural 5. So maybe see line-ups of even
Campazzo (5'10)
Bolmaro (6'6)
Deck (6'6)
Brussino (6'8)
Vaulet (6'6)

Either way, pretty good talent assembly by Argentina - almost all their best, but they have declined over the recent years. The 2019 World Cup silver was a dream run with them playing way over their heads, but still proof that when they are feeling it, they are really good. They still have enough to dance circles around Canada if they are flowing, but if Canada has at least the same team (or better) featuring SGA and Olynyk it should be enough to overcome the Argies at home. Lose either SGA or KO and I wouldnt be feeling too good.

[Hair Canada]

I really hope they come fully loaded at the end of the month, including also Barrett and Dort (or dare I hope Brooks), who can all be very useful playing against small-ball. And then how about taking it forward to the Americup?

[Hair Canada]

I was watching some basketball today from the Canadian Nationals. Team SK beat Team BC in the U15 category after 2 overtimes in a pretty wild game.

Which made me think: When was the last time that Team BC performed well in these games? In both the U17 and U15 categories they used to be a regular top-3 team in the country. But over the last decade, it only happened once in the U17 and not at all in the U15, where they now usually finish outside of the top-5 (the U15 is where most provinces send their strongest team; by U17 many top prospects don't show up anymore). It's no longer only Alberta that passed BC in its basketball quality. It seems that provinces with around 1mil population like Manitoba, Saskatchewan, New Brunswick, and especially Nova Scotia (two borderline NBA players in recent years and a couple of championships in the U15 and U17 nationals) have made a leap and caught up to BC, even though the population of all 4 combined is still smaller than that of BC.

Which then made me think: What happened to basketball in Canada's 3rd most populated province? This is the province that only two decades ago gave Canada its best player ever, as well as producing NBA players like Kelly Olynyk and Robert Sacre and NT steadies like the Scrubb brothers. And yet, since Phil and Tommy (who are already around 30 by the way), I believe there hasn't been a single significant NT player from BC (mojo, correct me if I'm wrong). Unless you consider Connor Morgan significant, but he's also 28 already. During this time, there have also been very few BC players in the junior teams and none of them was able to make a mark.

So what happened?

This is a province with former success in raising good (and even great) basketball players and a population of about 5 million (more than twice the size of small European basketball powerhouses like Latvia, Lithuania, Slovenia, and Montenegro and also bigger than Croatia). It has a nice basketball tradition and culture, fans who know and love basketball, and even had an NBA franchise for a while.

Why is BC doing so poorly now? Is there a way for it to come back? Anyone here with an insider's insight (or without) who could shed some light on this?

[Hair Canada]

Despite what I said above, this year's U17 BC team has been quite a ride and really fun to watch. They pressure the ball and make life miserable for opposing guards (26 steals per game).

But even more, their offensive prowess has been out of this world.

In their 3 games so far they've scored (sit tight) 135 points per game! And that's under FIBA rules, which means playing only 40 minutes per game.

They're also jacking up 3s like their lives depend on it, shooting nearly 50 (!) 3-pointers per game.

The game today against a pretty decent Nova Scotia team (I like guard Kanan Chrismas) has brought all of this to a new level. BC had 61 3-point attempts, made 32 of these (the NBA record for a team is 29, in 48 minutes), and won by 63 points, 159-96. Nova Scotia still led at the end of the first quarter, but BC scored 60 points (!) in the second quarter, forcing one TO after the other and raining 3s.

BC hasn't met any of Ontario, Quebec, or Alberta yet. But it did play decent Nova Scotia and Manitoba teams and beat them with ease, so they seem real and are probably true medal contenders this year. If they continue to shoot like this, no one will be able to stop them.

On an individual level, can't say I've seen anyone who rocked my world in terms of long-term potential. Cole Bekkering (6'5) is a nice SF with some size and good shooting. And PG Torian Lee has been their best player, posting 17 points and 6 assists, and more than 5 steals per game. He's really quick, a good athlete, and plays a heady game. But he's also just 5'10...

[mojo13]

I don't know what's up with B.C. I left a long time ago. I will say, it has gotten extremely expensive over the last couple decades and Vancouver is now is the most overpriced (housing prices / local income) housing market in North America. I've pondered the last decade on my return visits how teachers, coaches etc can afford to live anywhere near Vancouver/Victoria and that geography has now stretched well into the suburbs and beyond.
The schools seemed to have hollowed out the closer you get to Vancouver and there has never really been any immigrant driven, urban basketball culture in B.C.
B.C. basketball players seemed to be born out of the middle class sub-urbs or smaller interior communities. Maybe that is still there and stayed flat while the rest of the country has moved to higher levels. Or perhaps even that well is drying up as good teachers, coaches and familes who love the sport are forced to move on?

Fardaws Aimaq is a B.C. lad...so maybe a few will continue to trickle through...






Anyways - some pieces of info on the SMNT coming out of this interview with Mike Barlett.
https://www.cbc.ca/sports/olympics/summer/basketball/canada-basketball-michael-bartlett-four-medals-1.6538737

Beyond the egregiously optimistic headline and main premise of the article the most pertinent nugget is:

"The SMNT is "laser-focused" on an upcoming August WCQ window. He doesn't expect significant participation for September's AmeriCup, which bears no qualifying importance.

"I think what you're going to see is a mix of next-generation guys that will be part of our system for a long time that aren't on the senior team right now. And then perhaps a mixture of some of our winter core guys just to kind of give some veteran & FIBA presence," Bartlett said."

I expected the NBA players to skip the AmeriCup but am a little pissy about it, as this is a big missed opportunity. I really think keeping the NBA players out of the AmeriCup (and not even using a full “winter core”) shows a lack of seriousness by Canada Basketball about truly building chemistry, FIBA experience and a team structure among the “Core 14”.

Nurse and Barrett talk a talked a big game about gaining experience playing together. But what truly does the “core 14” gain from a few day camp and laying 40 point beat downs on the likes of USVI and Panama. They should be seeking more competitive games vs Argentina, Brazil, DR, PR and USA wherever they can. Like years past their camp(s) are too short and they don't play enough high level games - despite their proclamations, not much has changed.

As a comparison Argentina pulls together pretty much their 14 best players, begin their camp August 4th and will keep that team together through the AmeriCup. That’s how you build chemistry and why Argentina usually punches way above their weight class. How else do you explain thier silver medal run in the 2019 World Cup lead by a 40 something year old Luis Scola? I know Canada doesn’t have the DNA to train like Argentina, but they can do better.

[Hair Canada]

I totally agree. This is very disappointing and I don't get it.

More than 40 NBA players are going to play in the Eurobasket next month. Among them are the NBA MVPs over the last 4 years, as well as the favorite for MVP next year (Doncic). Many of these players will be in training camps and then playing for about a month and a half. A real bonding experience and then some tough competition, gaining invaluable FIBA experience, though most of them already have much more of it than the Canadians. The same is true, by the way, for the American teams, who plan to suit up with their best squads, even if most of them do not have NBA players.

But the Canadian "core" cannot even commit to something like a two-week period before the start of NBA training camps?

Unfortunately, we are taking our cue from the US rather than from the rest of the world, looking down at this competition. But we're not the US. We don't have any achievements on the world stage (or the continent stage for that matter) and don't have the level of talent that would allow us to just come together for 2 weeks and still swift away the title (to be sure, it doesn't even always work for the US).

And another thing: The US also doesn't need the ranking points in order to avoid groups of death in these competitions. We do. And a tournament like this, where we have a very good chance to beat the likes of Argentina, Brazil, and also the #1 ranked US, if we show up with our best players (or some of them at least) could go a long way in considerably improving our ranking.

As for the approach from basketball Canada, it might be that Barlett is just trying to make lemonade out of lemons (that is, the players won't commit, so he prefers to say that the tournament is not important and they don't really want them to come, thus they don't break their word on being committed). But I still don't like this defeatist approach. Why not at least try to hold their feet to the fire? You committed? Well, that includes some *real* bonding experience and some real matches where you will be tested. At least have them publicly come up with some lame excuse for why they don't come to this rather than just tell them it's not important and no one expects them to (like anyone would even want to come now...)

For that matter, I also don't like the message that the Olympics is all that really matters. That poorly designed (why on earth is it limited to 12 teams?) basketball event. Again, this is taking our cue from the Americans. But what's wrong with instead setting the goals high for the WC next year, seeing it as a goal in its own right, and focusing on getting a medal there, rather than just treating it as a qualifier for the Olympics? Again, it's not like Canada has tons of medals in World competitions and can just afford to take a pass. The way the mindset and message go, they will surely celebrate qualifying for the Olympics even if we finish in the 10th place, one above the next non-US American team. But why should that be the goal in such a tournament? Why not aim higher with a team full of NBA players and even a few NBA stars?

I feel like I'm going on a rant every time I talk about this, but I just don't get it. Why are Canadian fans being so complacent about it? If we don't care, why should the players and managers?

[Jstock12]

I expected the NBA players to skip the AmeriCup but am a little pissy about it, as this is a big missed opportunity. I really think keeping the NBA players out of the AmeriCup (and not even using a full “winter core”) shows a lack of seriousness by Canada Basketball about truly building chemistry, FIBA experience and a team structure among the “Core 14”.

Nurse and Barrett talk a talked a big game about gaining experience playing together. But what truly does the “core 14” gain from a few day camp and laying 40 point beat downs on the likes of USVI and Panama. They should be seeking more competitive games vs Argentina, Brazil, DR, PR and USA wherever they can. Like years past their camp(s) are too short and they don't play enough high level games - despite their proclamations, not much has changed.

As a comparison Argentina pulls together pretty much their 14 best players, begin their camp August 4th and will keep that team together through the AmeriCup. That’s how you build chemistry and why Argentina usually punches way above their weight class. How else do you explain thier silver medal run in the 2019 World Cup lead by a 40 something year old Luis Scola? I know Canada doesn’t have the DNA to train like Argentina, but they can do better.

It's certainly an interesting contrast in how different countries view these tournies like AmeriCup or the EuroBasket. Some give it no thought and don't feel like it's important, while others (Argentina, Euro countries) have a lot of national pride and want to win the gold medal for their country even if it doesn't qualify you to the World Cup, or the Olympics.

As a Lithuanian, I can't talk much about it, since this whole concept of viewing these tournaments as unimportant just feels alien to me. The upcoming Eurobasket is everything people/journalists/podcasts are talking about here right now. Just completely different worlds I guess.

[frumble]

For that matter, I also don't like the message that the Olympics is all that really matters. That poorly designed (why on earth is it limited to 12 teams?) basketball event. Again, this is taking our cue from the Americans. But what's wrong with instead setting the goals high for the WC next year, seeing it as a goal in its own right, and focusing on getting a medal there, rather than just treating it as a qualifier for the Olympics?

I could not agree more. The WC is a better tournament and a far more realistic qualifaction goal, and absolutely should be the focus of the program. The prioritization of Olympics basketball, at the expense of the Worlds, drives me bonkers.

[mojo13]

For that matter, I also don't like the message that the Olympics is all that really matters. That poorly designed (why on earth is it limited to 12 teams?) basketball event. Again, this is taking our cue from the Americans. But what's wrong with instead setting the goals high for the WC next year, seeing it as a goal in its own right, and focusing on getting a medal there, rather than just treating it as a qualifier for the Olympics?

I could not agree more. The WC is a better tournament and a far more realistic qualifaction goal, and absolutely should be the focus of the program. The prioritization of Olympics basketball, at the expense of the Worlds, drives me bonkers.

Everyone in the world seems to agree except USA and Canada.

And my feeling is that FIBA's long term plan is to de-emphasize the Olympics in favor of the World Cup. With he Olympics eventually losing 5x5 altogether or it going to to a U23 competion.

FIBA wants the World Cup to be FIFA-like as they'll have full control of the revenue streams rather the IOC stealing away their product. The NBA is getting in on this as well. Mark Cuban has said before that this is their product, their assets and they get nothing but risk from the Olympics. The NBA has wanted to restrict the Olympics to u23 for a long time - at least back a decade. All it takes is for the owners to to say "no-NBA players" (or u23) in the Olympics in the next CBA. Maybe offer to revenue share the World Cup with the players.

The plan already seems well afoot.

First the new(ish) WC Qualfication process lays the groundwork to making the WC the more important event world wide. Dragging out home/home games across multiple windows over two years helps build branding, a culture and expectations of home games. A constant drip of events for the fanbases (like FIFA).

3x3 seems a big step towards diluting the pain of reducing 5x5 to the IOC and fanbases. More countries participating in the Olympics = broader appeal and interest. Something new and exciting(?) to watch. A replacment product?

Even Global Jam seems a precursor as they are setting the stage for an U23 division and gauging the product and fan response.

Moving the FIBA World Cup to odd years to avoid FIFA's WC has now put the FIBA WC and Olys in back to back years. This was not well recieved by the NBA or NBA players and has reduced NBA player participation. As we know too well, the 2019 WC was not a good turnout of NBA players. I don't think this is sustainable, FIBA knows this, and this is yet another sign they are prepping to bail on the Olympics.

Further the NBA, FIBA and the EuroLeague have been holding an annual meeting and I'm sure they are talking about this.

It almost seems it is a "when", not an "if" at this point...

[steadysoul]

For that matter, I also don't like the message that the Olympics is all that really matters. That poorly designed (why on earth is it limited to 12 teams?) basketball event. Again, this is taking our cue from the Americans. But what's wrong with instead setting the goals high for the WC next year, seeing it as a goal in its own right, and focusing on getting a medal there, rather than just treating it as a qualifier for the Olympics? Again, it's not like Canada has tons of medals in World competitions and can just afford to take a pass. The way the mindset and message go, they will surely celebrate qualifying for the Olympics even if we finish in the 10th place, one above the next non-US American team. But why should that be the goal in such a tournament? Why not aim higher with a team full of NBA players and even a few NBA stars?

I feel like I'm going on a rant every time I talk about this, but I just don't get it. Why are Canadian fans being so complacent about it? If we don't care, why should the players and managers?

You know what's really annoying? FIBA has tried to expand the field for the Olympics numerous times and the IOC continues to say no. That's why they changed the FWC and the OQT. I'm all for every region getting represented, but there needs to be more teams. It should be no less than 18 and even that doesn't seem like enough.

[steadysoul]

FIBA wants the World Cup to be FIFA-like as they'll have full control of the revenue streams rather the IOC stealing away their product. The NBA is getting in on this as well. Mark Cuban has said before that this is their product, their assets and they get nothing but risk from the Olympics. The NBA has wanted to restrict the Olympics to u23 for a long time - at least back a decade. All it takes is for the owners to to say "no-NBA players" (or u23) in the Olympics in the next CBA. Maybe offer to revenue share the World Cup with the players.

The FWC also has an abysmal media presence here. I know it's not completely FIBAs fault, but it's way too much work to watch any of the games in the states. Honestly, the best it's been was the 2007 Americup.

Aside from that I think the national team stuff will always exist as a divide between owners and players. I think the best thing that could happen is having the US host the FWC again and partnering directly with the NBA not only with promotion but actual cost and revenue.

[metafisical]

Just bought tickets to the Aug 25 game. My son and I have never been to s basketball game ever. Should be fun.

[DoctaJ]

Saw Simi signed with Orlando. Don't know the details of it - guessing just a camp invite but honestly can't say I expected to see his name.

Anyone been watching him the last bit?

[WaltFrazier]

U23 in the Olympics would be great, better shot at getting the best Canadians all playing.

But 3 on 3 is a gimmick, not a great spectator sport. It won't replace 5on 5

[Hair Canada]

Saw Simi signed with Orlando. Don't know the details of it - guessing just a camp invite but honestly can't say I expected to see his name.

Anyone been watching him the last bit?

He played in Israel last year and really didn't impress. 17 minutes per game, 7ppg, 3.5rpg, more TOs than assists, lots of fouls, mediocre shooting from the field, and horrible shooting from the line (39% on 56 attempts). I also didn't think he looked particularly good in summer league. And he's been struggling on defense for quite some time now, going back to his Vanderbilt days (remember when he and Darius Garland were expected to co-lead Vanderbilt to being a college contender? Their careers couldn't have developed in more opposite directions).

In short, I highly doubt this leads to anything. He's been one of the more disappointing Canadians in recent years relative to expectations when he was in high school. Would be nice if he can turn things around, but I didn't see any evidence that's going to happen.

[mojo13]

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I wouldnt call this official, but the uniquness of many of the names seems to indicate it is most probabably it.

A team like this built around SGA and Olynyk with a solid supporting cast should be good enough to beat Argentina (maybe not as they have been training since early August). We are super shallow up front, but so is Argentia (more so). Expect both teams to run allot of small ball.

Allot of three gaurd line ups with SGA and/or NAW as defacto wings here. Really no natural SFs to speak of here (Makuma?) and terrible depth up front at both PC and C. It is KO & Powell then I guess Edey/Kennedy/Posthumus?

Still a line up of
SGA/CoJo (or Pangos)/NAW/Olynyk/Powell is going to be pretty good. Good shooter off the bench in Robertson, size in Edey. TBH is solid if there are minutes for him.

Only 7 of them here, so where are the rest of the "Core 14"? Especially Brissett, Barrett, Brooks who seem healthy (all the SFs)? Dort and Birch should be healthy but maybe are being overly cautious? I never expected Murray to be here.

Where the heck are all the Winter Core guys? Or even the rest of the decent European players. Perhaps they are called to their Euro clubs already? (seems too soon).

It is a big drop down to the CEBL level players who likley are the ones going to the Americup (plus Edey, Robertson, TBH).

[Huskies1947]

There is no reason why Canada should not be consistenly 2nd or playing for a medal at the olympics. Hopefully with the 3 year committments we can see a team that can finally mesh together.

[mojo13]

I've heard that the 18 man prelin list FIBA posted is not accurate (once again FIBA with the f-up).

Don't know much more than they supposedly combined the WC Qualfier and AmeriCup lists. I can only assume all 18 of these guys are particpating on one team or another but perhaps there are names missing for either (or both) the WCQ team and AmeriCup team.

Official Canada Basketball list should be out tomorrow or Friday.

[mojo13]

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So we looking at a final 12 like:

Guards
SGA
CoJo
Pangos
NAW
Robertson
P Scrubb
TBH

Wing
Brissett
Scrubb
Ejim

Frount Court
Wiltjer
Olynyk
Powell
Edey
Young

Looks great!

So cuts are likley TBH, Young and who??? Wiltjer? A Scrubb? Ejim? Edey? That 12th cut is going to be a tough one. Probably a Scrubb. I really want Robertson and Wiltjers shooting. Ejim and Edey are part of the "Core 14".


And for starting 5? Still seems SGA/NAW/Olynyk/Powell are very likely. But I'm hoping Brissett is inserted at the 3.
He is a nice do everything wing. Athletic, plays good D, fairly big and rebounds really well. Bit of a streaky shooter but a career 36% 3pt shooter in the NBA. Ejim looked slow, heavy and frankly not very good the last window.

[Kenter16]

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So we looking at a final 12 like:

Guards
SGA
CoJo
Pangos
NAW
Robertson
P Scrubb
TBH

Wing
Brissett
Scrubb
Ejim

Frount Court
Wiltjer
Olynyk
Powell
Edey
Young

Looks great!

So cuts are likley TBH, Young and who??? Wiltjer? A Scrubb? Ejim? Edey? That 12th cut is going to be a tough one. Probably a Scrubb. I really want Robertson and Wiltjers shooting. Ejim and Edey are part of the "Core 14".


And for starting 5? Still seems SGA/NAW/Olynyk/Powell are very likely. But I'm hoping Brissett is inserted at the 3.
He is a nice do everything wing. Athletic, plays good D, fairly big and rebounds really well. Bit of a streaky shooter but a career 36% 3pt shooter in the NBA. Ejim looked slow, heavy and frankly not very good the last window.

This is a fantastic roster. Of course we have to continue to wait to have Jamal and Shai on the court at the same time, but this press release gives me hope that will actually happen.

My starting 5 would be Cojo-Shai-Wiltjer-Olynyk-Powell. Lots of size/length. A couple bigs who can shoot and spread the floor for Shai to get to the basket. Powell is the pick and roll master. Stick Cojo on Campazzo. But, Brissett is a obviously a solid choice to start at the 3.

Really curious if this roster goes to the Americup. They have 15 in camp, does that mean 3 of the core 14 will drop out after the qualifiers? That's probably wishful thinking. Most likely from what I am seeing online is that there will be none of the guys there. I hope that's wrong.