Jazz seeking picks and not starting talent for Mitchell

[Ballerhogger]

If they do a trade like this who are jazz fans going watch Jordan Clarkson?

[Memories]

Great, they're giving me zero reasons to watch their team this season. Wonderful.

Your team has ZERO chance of winning anything. And it had zero chance before the Gobert trade. So blowing it up is by far the best option. Especially for next year’s draft class.

That’s very exciting and a front office recognizing this fact ahead of time should be exciting for you.

I don't care if they have ZERO chance of winning anything. I care about being able to watch a product on the court that is worth watching.

Without a team having any chance of competing, is not a product worth watching at all. If you don’t recognize that fact, than you never really cared about the team’s success at all.

[BostonCouchGM]

I don't get some fans. Are you seriously enthralled watching regular season success only to lose in the first or second round of the playoffs?

In an 82 game season, yes, winning during it means more than losing during it.

But it's not even about regular season success. It's about having some sort of reason to watch. If I'm a fan of OKC now, I don't believe they are making the playoffs, but they do have guys like SGA, Giddy, and now Holmgren. That's worth watching, at least to see how they'll do. The Jazz have nobody now, at least if Mitchell gets traded. Now if they can get a guy like Toppin I can at least talk myself into him being a player worth watching.

I think I hear where you're coming from. It's one thing to tank when you have potential high upside but very raw guys you can watch develop but it's another thing entirely to tank when it's a bunch of guys with role playing upside and vets you hope to move at the deadline? I will remind you that Ainge has been down this road before. He traded KG, Pierce and Rondo and was left with a bunch of reclamation projects, draft picks and young players. He acquired a bunch of picks from the Nets, IT from PHO and Crowder from DAL. He had young guys recently drafted in AB, Smart and Olynyk with role playing upside only. Then with the picks he drafted Rozier, Brown, Tatum and with the cap space signed Horford. Ainge went from complete teardown to becoming more successful than any Gobert/Mitchell team has been, reaching the ECF, all within 3 years.

He's pretty much duplicating that strategy in Utah. It's hard to see the forest from the trees right now and see how anyone currently on the roster can be worth watching or part of a future contender but it's there. I promise you. Kessler has a chance to be your Olynyk. Butler has a chance to be your AB. There's likely going to be a few more of these types acquired via trades before the season and certainly by the deadline. Sprinkle in some high draft picks with talent like Brown and Tatum then add a FA and you'll be in business. The roster as it currently sits is nothing like it'll be on opening night. I think by the trade deadline 75% of the roster will be gone. Maybe it's just me but I like watching young talent developing and thinking about reclamation projects carving out a role for themselves to part of a winning team. It's not all gloom and doom.

[Nate505]

Your team has ZERO chance of winning anything. And it had zero chance before the Gobert trade. So blowing it up is by far the best option. Especially for next year’s draft class.

That’s very exciting and a front office recognizing this fact ahead of time should be exciting for you.

I don't care if they have ZERO chance of winning anything. I care about being able to watch a product on the court that is worth watching.

Without a team having any chance of competing, is not a product worth watching at all. If you don’t recognize that fact, than you never really cared about the team’s success at all.

Not really. The Jazz have been one of the more competitive teams in the past 30 years or so, despite not having a ton of high round draft picks.

[Nate505]

I don't get some fans. Are you seriously enthralled watching regular season success only to lose in the first or second round of the playoffs?

In an 82 game season, yes, winning during it means more than losing during it.

But it's not even about regular season success. It's about having some sort of reason to watch. If I'm a fan of OKC now, I don't believe they are making the playoffs, but they do have guys like SGA, Giddy, and now Holmgren. That's worth watching, at least to see how they'll do. The Jazz have nobody now, at least if Mitchell gets traded. Now if they can get a guy like Toppin I can at least talk myself into him being a player worth watching.

I think I hear where you're coming from. It's one thing to tank when you have potential high upside but very raw guys you can watch develop but it's another thing entirely to tank when it's a bunch of guys with role playing upside and vets you hope to move at the deadline? I will remind you that Ainge has been down this road before. He traded KG, Pierce and Rondo and was left with a bunch of reclamation projects, draft picks and young players. He acquired a bunch of picks from the Nets, IT from PHO and Crowder from DAL. He had young guys recently drafted in AB, Smart and Olynyk with role playing upside only. Then with the picks he drafted Rozier, Brown, Tatum and with the cap space signed Horford. Ainge went from complete teardown to becoming more successful than any Gobert/Mitchell team has been, reaching the ECF, all within 3 years.

He's pretty much duplicating that strategy in Utah. It's hard to see the forest from the trees right now and see how anyone currently on the roster can be worth watching or part of a future contender but it's there. I promise you. Kessler has a chance to be your Olynyk. Butler has a chance to be your AB. There's likely going to be a few more of these types acquired via trades before the season and certainly by the deadline. Sprinkle in some high draft picks with talent like Brown and Tatum then add a FA and you'll be in business. The roster as it currently sits is nothing like it'll be on opening night. I think by the trade deadline 75% of the roster will be gone. Maybe it's just me but I like watching young talent developing and thinking about reclamation projects carving out a role for themselves to part of a winning team. It's not all gloom and doom.

Agreed. If they get some young talent you are correct. My issue is that, if this report is correct, is that they don't want young talented players, at least this season. They just want draft picks. Which is great for next year. It's great for draft night in 2023. It's not great from October to April of 2022-2023.

Like I said, my standards aren't high on potential players to watch. Just give me someone. If Kessler is as good as it gets, it doesn't move the needle in terms of excitement.

[Nate505]

I don't get some fans. Are you seriously enthralled watching regular season success only to lose in the first or second round of the playoffs?

In an 82 game season, yes, winning during it means more than losing during it.

But it's not even about regular season success. It's about having some sort of reason to watch. If I'm a fan of OKC now, I don't believe they are making the playoffs, but they do have guys like SGA, Giddy, and now Holmgren. That's worth watching, at least to see how they'll do. The Jazz have nobody now, at least if Mitchell gets traded. Now if they can get a guy like Toppin I can at least talk myself into him being a player worth watching.

If they trade Mitchell for a ton of picks you’ll be correct that this season won’t be much worth watching. Next season will be.

Take it from a Magic fan that had to watch Vucevic and Fournier for a decade before they finally blew it up. Now i have Paolo, Franz and co. to look forward to watching. Much better outcome and infinitely more watchable despite knowing they aren’t winning anything this year.

If that's true, I'll enjoy watching them in October of 2023. I won't waste my time watching them this year though if they are doing nothing but accumulating draft picks.

Keep in mind, I'm not some bandwagon casual fan either. I've bought League Pass for the past 20+ years just to watch the Jazz. I would set my dvr manually to make sure when I was on vacation I could come home and watch 6 games in a row, without a fear of missing games that went into OT (and also avoiding any sports scores for a week). I'm a mod on a Jazz message board. I've been a member here for over 20 years. I wouldn't call myself the biggest die hard fan, but I'm up there. And I'm just not a fan of the tanking mentality. If people are so be it. I get the arguments for it. I just don't care for it. I'm looking for any reason to watch them next season, but so far, there is none (if Mitchell is traded for nothing but draft picks).

[cgf]

I can live with Quickley + 2 unprotected NYK FRPs + 3 or 4 protected FRPs from DAL / DET / MIL / WAS.

That should leave us enough ammo for a future Brunson/Mitchell + Randle/Toppin ++ trade, and a coherent rotation in the interim if Mitchell & Brunson's minutes are staggered.

[Johnny Bball]

Great, they're giving me zero reasons to watch their team this season. Wonderful.

This mindset is why I respect what Ainge is doing even more. I’ve never viewed the Jazz as a team serious about contending. Always saw them as a team fine with a treadmill team that gets in the playoffs and keep their fans happy without ever having a real shot at the title.

That the front office is decided to rock the boat away from that is admirable, despite possibly upsetting fans that were perfectly happy just making the playoffs.

Ainge is going to trade away a team that was in the middle of making the playoffs for 15 straight years but never winning it all, into a different team that makes the playoffs for 15 straight years 5 years from now and never wins it all.

[sp6r=underrated]

Great, they're giving me zero reasons to watch their team this season. Wonderful.

This mindset is why I respect what Ainge is doing even more. I’ve never viewed the Jazz as a team serious about contending. Always saw them as a team fine with a treadmill team that gets in the playoffs and keep their fans happy without ever having a real shot at the title.

That the front office is decided to rock the boat away from that is admirable, despite possibly upsetting fans that were perfectly happy just making the playoffs.

And if it fails it could also kill off professional basketball in Utah.

Great, they're giving me zero reasons to watch their team this season. Wonderful.

This mindset is why I respect what Ainge is doing even more. I’ve never viewed the Jazz as a team serious about contending. Always saw them as a team fine with a treadmill team that gets in the playoffs and keep their fans happy without ever having a real shot at the title.

That the front office is decided to rock the boat away from that is admirable, despite possibly upsetting fans that were perfectly happy just making the playoffs.

Ainge is going to trade away a team that was in the middle of making the playoffs for 15 straight years but never winning it all, into a different team that makes the playoffs for 15 straight years 5 years from now and never wins it all.

Yup, people really overrate the average outcome of tank jobs. The average tanking franchise never reaches the level of the Gobert-Mitchell Jazz

[sp6r=underrated]

In an 82 game season, yes, winning during it means more than losing during it.

But it's not even about regular season success. It's about having some sort of reason to watch. If I'm a fan of OKC now, I don't believe they are making the playoffs, but they do have guys like SGA, Giddy, and now Holmgren. That's worth watching, at least to see how they'll do. The Jazz have nobody now, at least if Mitchell gets traded. Now if they can get a guy like Toppin I can at least talk myself into him being a player worth watching.

If they trade Mitchell for a ton of picks you’ll be correct that this season won’t be much worth watching. Next season will be.

Take it from a Magic fan that had to watch Vucevic and Fournier for a decade before they finally blew it up. Now i have Paolo, Franz and co. to look forward to watching. Much better outcome and infinitely more watchable despite knowing they aren’t winning anything this year.

If that's true, I'll enjoy watching them in October of 2023. I won't waste my time watching them this year though if they are doing nothing but accumulating draft picks.

Keep in mind, I'm not some bandwagon casual fan either. I've bought League Pass for the past 20+ years just to watch the Jazz. I would set my dvr manually to make sure when I was on vacation I could come home and watch 6 games in a row, without a fear of missing games that went into OT (and also avoiding any sports scores for a week). I'm a mod on a Jazz message board. I've been a member here for over 20 years. I wouldn't call myself the biggest die hard fan, but I'm up there. And I'm just not a fan of the tanking mentality. If people are so be it. I get the arguments for it. I just don't care for it. I'm looking for any reason to watch them next season, but so far, there is none (if Mitchell is traded for nothing but draft picks).

Let's be real here, if the NBA allowed it, Ainge would have the Jazz forfeit the next 2 seasons to go 0-82 to maximize his lottery ball odds.

This is why Ainge's strategy is risky for the Jazz. The ones who regularly buy tickets or League pass, like Nate505, quite understandably are not interested in watching a garbage team for 3-4 years. Ainge assume these fans will stick around. It is quite understandable if they don't. As I said before Ainge, like Hinkie before him, is intentionally trying to lose games. He's intentionally trying to field unwatachable rosters. If enough of the Nate505s stop watching, and the lottery balls don't bounce Utah's way, professional basketball is at risk in Utah. This is not a huge market like Philly.

This is also why Ainge's strategy is bad for the NBA. Victor is going to be in the NBA no matter what in 2023. All Ainge is doing is lowering 2022 Jazz winning %, and thereby revenue, to increase the odds he ends up in Utah. This inspires other teams to do the same. And so we get to a race to the bottom with 5-7 fielding unwatchable rosters which makes for tons of gross basketball

[sp6r=underrated]

Your team has ZERO chance of winning anything. And it had zero chance before the Gobert trade. So blowing it up is by far the best option. Especially for next year’s draft class.

That’s very exciting and a front office recognizing this fact ahead of time should be exciting for you.

I don't care if they have ZERO chance of winning anything. I care about being able to watch a product on the court that is worth watching.

Without a team having any chance of competing, is not a product worth watching at all. If you don’t recognize that fact, than you never really cared about the team’s success at all.

Basketball is anti-parity. Every year a majority of franchises start the year without a shot at a title. If you're correct, everyone who buys tickets for 2/3s of the NBA doesn't care about their team. Quite insane if you ask me,

[JoseRizal]

Brick for Vic!

[Richard Miller]

Isn't this basically admitting to tanking?

It's not like they have to admit or anything, the long-time coach is gone, Gobert is gone and now if Mitchell is gone they won't be a playoff team anyway

[Clav]

Brick for Vic!

The tagline for Utah's Season

[Lockdown504090]

this team without trading mitchell is going to be WAAAY too good to get a top 3 pick odds.
Conley/beverly
Mitchell/clarkson
bojan/beasly
Vanderbilt/ Rudy Gay
Whiteside/azibuke

Aside from the 5 position, this team will still win 35+games unless serious tanking measures are taken and i dont think anyone other than victor is worth tanking for (domestically, havent watched intl prospects yet) in snyder's system, this team might score more than last years.

So, yeah, they cant really take back talent for Don

[Jadoogar]

Great, they're giving me zero reasons to watch their team this season. Wonderful.

Tanking can be fun especially when a generational talent is in the draft. The sad part for Knicks fans is the ping pong balls

I remember the tank in 2014 that the Jazz were in. I don't remember it being fun, except on Lottery Day and Draft Day. And that draft was hyped to an amazing point. And the Jazz got...Dante Exum. Great.

I mean if the Jazz go this route where the most interesting player on their roster is Jared Butler and Walker Kessler, great. I'm not going to watch it, but hey, I can find other things to do until the Lottery next May and the draft next June.

this is the problem. Most tanking teams have interesting young players to get excited about. If Jazz only get picks in this trade, they will have nothing to watch this year. It might be one of the least interesting teams of all time.

[whitehops]

i know the mavs pick situation is a little sticky but something like bertans, bullock and picks sounds like it would benefit both teams. mavs would probably have to give up a ton of picks though to get rid of bertans' contract and bring back mitchell. even then i doubt their picks would be attractive enough for ainge, considering they'll be a playoff team for the foreseeable future.

[John Murdoch]

[Domejandro]

Ainge is going to accumulate a million picks and hoard them, and waste them like he did in Boston

The Brooklyn picks literally turned into Jaylen Brown and Jayson Tatum. Hardly a "waste".

[Pharmcat]

I thought jazz radio hosts said it was done deal a few weeks ago ?