Bill Russell is the most impactful player ever, and at least #4 all time

[sp6r=underrated]

I think you are mixing up Russell and Cousy. Auerbach wanted Russell and traded an established All-Star (Ed Macauley) and the 3rd pick in the draft (Cliff Hagan) to get him because he had not been truly competitive despite his high octane offenses and needed defense. Cousy was the hometown star that the fans wanted and Red didn't, but Cousy fell to him when his franchise folded and the players Red preferred went to other teams in the dispersal draft.

I will agree that Red's coaching probably gets overrated, but his GM skills probably underrated. He may not be the GOAT coach but he might be the GOAT GM, constantly getting good depth veterans and drafting well.

You're right I was confusing some stories I read between the early Celtics and the Russell/Chamberlain book. I was thinking of Cousy!

I skimmed the books and I did see that Red tried to bribe Wilt Chamberlain play for a college in the Boston area so he can draft him as a territorial pick. But then again that was Wilt Chamberlain.

There is one lesson that is consistently hammered home for me anytime I read about major collegiate basketball/football programs: they are enormous scams designed to not pay their full-time, revenue generating employees.

[falcolombardi]

I think you are mixing up Russell and Cousy. Auerbach wanted Russell and traded an established All-Star (Ed Macauley) and the 3rd pick in the draft (Cliff Hagan) to get him because he had not been truly competitive despite his high octane offenses and needed defense. Cousy was the hometown star that the fans wanted and Red didn't, but Cousy fell to him when his franchise folded and the players Red preferred went to other teams in the dispersal draft.

I will agree that Red's coaching probably gets overrated, but his GM skills probably underrated. He may not be the GOAT coach but he might be the GOAT GM, constantly getting good depth veterans and drafting well.

You're right I was confusing some stories I read between the early Celtics and the Russell/Chamberlain book. I was thinking of Cousy!

I skimmed the books and I did see that Red tried to bribe Wilt Chamberlain play for a college in the Boston area so he can draft him as a territorial pick. But then again that was Wilt Chamberlain.

There is one lesson that is consistently hammered home for me anytime I read about major collegiate basketball/football programs: they are enormous scams designed to not pay their full-time, revenue generating employees.

Not gonna lie, the whole ncaa for football and basketball kinda is a massive cartel lol

[penbeast0]

I like seeing the Ignite; it's a scam that these colleges make millions off "amateur" players. It's also a scam that many of these players pretend to go to college.

Some schools, like John Thompson at Georgetown, really pushed players to actually work on their education but others, like the U. of Maryland at the time, didn't. Many of the players at Maryland would take remedial math each semester, you needed to try it to stay eligible but not pass it, so they would show up the first day then just fail getting enough phys ed credits to keep their overall GPA at minimal eligibility levels. Many also drove expensive cars (kids whose families were very poor) and would park them in the handicapped spaces running up thousands of dollars a year in tickets since the only enforcement was the school wouldn't send your diploma and they all thought they would just play basketball for a living. Some did, others didn't make it, but the whole idea of the program being for student athletes was a scam on both the university and the student end. I'm sure other programs were equally good or bad but those were the two main ones where I grew up.

[sp6r=underrated]

You're right I was confusing some stories I read between the early Celtics and the Russell/Chamberlain book. I was thinking of Cousy!

I skimmed the books and I did see that Red tried to bribe Wilt Chamberlain play for a college in the Boston area so he can draft him as a territorial pick. But then again that was Wilt Chamberlain.

There is one lesson that is consistently hammered home for me anytime I read about major collegiate basketball/football programs: they are enormous scams designed to not pay their full-time, revenue generating employees.

Not gonna lie, the whole ncaa for football and basketball kinda is a massive cartel lol

I've always hoped that at the final four the players would come out holding hands and say we're not going to play today's game without a salary for the schools that employ us to play basketball.

[tsherkin]

I like seeing the Ignite; it's a scam that these colleges make millions off "amateur" players. It's also a scam that many of these players pretend to go to college.

This is certainly true. And then they punish the players if they do revenue-generating things, or accept money that they often need in order to go given places and whatever. It's high-order hypocrisy and dreadful.

[Mazter]

Didn't Lebron get suspended for accepting two retro jersey's worth 800 something in return for a picture on the wall? While his HS got air travel, hotel costs and limousine services around games covered by a promoter because LeBron sold out a game for them.

To get back to the topic, Jerry West went to 9 Finals in 14 seasons after joining the 25-50 Lakers. They lost 3 divisional series because of injuries to him. Of course they lost many times to the Celtics in the Finals. The Lakers once went 2-11 in games without him while having a 44-25 record with him. This was a team with 3 other HOF-ers, including Wilt. In the logic of the OP, West should be the second or third most impactful player, with Mikan being the other. It's no coincidence that all 3 starred in the 50's and 60's.

[penbeast0]

The 60s were the time when there were 4 players that really separated themselves from their peers. Russell, Chamberlain, West, and Robertson were a serious level above everyone else at their position.

Russell was more impactful than Wilt though Wilt had the stats. One or the other was clearly the best player in the world for a decade plus. West and Oscar were at the Jordan level of impactful though in a smaller league.

[Johnlac1]

Russell played for a coach who knew exactly how to use him and acquire players who fit well with Russell.
Red Auerbach was miles ahead of the other league coaches who didn't have much of a plan. Auerbach knew that a strong defensive team with Russell as the anchor combined with a fast break/rapid pace would be a winner.
And he was correct. Auerbach's genius was not only in playing the perfect style to complement Russell, he always got the right replacements for stars who retired.
The only flaw in Auerbach's strategy was allowing Cousy to shoot too much when every other starter was a better shooter. Cousy was an especially awful shooter in the playoffs, but the Celtics overcame his gunning with strong defense and high intensity.
When other coaches put in subs they usually put in one to jack up the offense. Auerbach put in defensive-minded subs like K.C. Jones and Satch Sanders. Defense was paramount. Alex Hannum and Red Auerbach were the only other coaches in the sixties who realized the importance of team play and defense.
That's not to say the Celtics didn't have a lot of good fortune/luck during Russell's reign. But they won so often they expected to win even when they weren't the best team in the league.
The key question: would Russell have won as many titles on another club that didn't have a combination great coach/great GM like Auerbach? Probably not.
But even so with all the breaks (the Celtics won 11 our of 13 playoff series that went to the limit) it was a fantastic achievement never to be duplicated again for a number of reasons.

Reading a few books about the topic you're giving Red way too much credit. He did not know what to do with Bill and he originally did not want Bill, Bill was a consolation prize if I can recall (I forgot what his original plan was for the off season).

You're basically making it seem like Red was by far the best coach and everyone else was trash, when Red had been in the NBA and other pro leagues for a long time before Russell showed up and he wasn't considered the best coach.

As coach/GM Auerbach won titles in four decades.
Coaching in the NBA for many years was basically the coach putting out what he thought was the best five players and letting them play. Most coaches were ex players who didn't give a lot of thought to running plays or playing tough defense. Hiring college coaches didn't happen until the late sixties with Dick Motta who might have been the first college coach who didn't play in the NBA first. Before Motta Joe Lapchick coached college ball before he coached in the NBA, but he was an ex pro player. Motta brought a lot of college techniques to the NBA.
Auerbach wasn't a coach who ran a lot of plays. He played fast break ball and tough defense. The Celtics simply wore out many teams in the fourth quarter.
But not only did Auerbach get Russell, he knew how to use Russell, and he knew what players to play around him and how to get the right players to replace them.
When Russell retired the Celtics had one bad season and then got Dave Cowens to play with Havlicek who was still a superstar in the early seventies. But defense was still paramount. While Cowens was no Russell as far as shotblocking and defense, he was a good rebounder and a better scorer. Jo Jo White filled in the Sam Jones scoring guard role adequately. The other players knew their jobs and didn't buck the system. Auerbach's only mistake was not realizing how good Paul Westphal was and dished him after three seasons to Phoenix where he became one of the league's top guards.
And then Auerbach put together the Larry Bird teams that won three titles in the eighties and probably would have won a few more if Bird didn't get a bad back and Len Bias didn't die from a drug overdose.
Auerbach didn't run a real complicated system. In that he was like Vince Lombardi He believed in tough defense, selfless team play, and players knowing their roles and not bucking the system. His players were always well-conditioned and frequently simply outlasted many teams.
Champions in four decades. How many coaches/GMs can claim what Auerbach did?

[Outside]

Frank McGuire in 1961-62 was a renowned college coach who coached the Philadelphia Warriors during Wilt's 50-point, 25 rebound season. He would have stayed in that position except the team was sold and moved to San Francisco, and McGuire didn't want to move because his son needed specialized medical care and he wanted to keep the same doctors.

The team was successful but lost to Boston 4-3 in the ECF, one of multiple close losses Wilt's teams had versus the Celtics.