Tobias Harris Trade Thread

[mjkvol]

Everyone keeps assuming that it's the salary that is the issue. The only difference between Tobias making what he is and Tobias making half of that is that he'd be a hell of a lot easier to move, and likely would already have been moved.

It's the fact that he isn't a fit for what this Sixers team needs, and he has to alter what he is as a player in order to fit that role. If he was a perfect fit on this roster and he could be counted on as a solid playoff performer in that role, the contract wouldn't matter and we wouldn't be discussing this ad nauseum.

The salary is absolutely the issue. By "alter his game" you mean not handle the ball as much, which he can do, and Crowder can't. He's also a better shooter than Crowder, and showed great progress on catch and shoot when Harden showed up and it became clear that was his role. Somehow people turn Tobias being a well rounded player into a negative lol.

Disappear in the playoffs? He averaged 16.9 PPG on good efficiency this year, in addition to the numbers I posted above Crowder has averaged 10.3 PPG in the playoffs since 2017. Somehow Harris is the one that disappears. Pretty clear it's about the money. It's fine to say he's overpaid because he is but people are going nuts with this stuff, he's a talented player.

Looking at the playoffs as a whole is disingenuous. It's great that he was good against Toronto in the first round, but that was the first round. He sucked against Miami in the second round, and that's more important.

And of course they really need his to re-allocate salary to multiple other needs. A stretch 4, and that's all he is on this team (and all he ever should be, but that's another story), cannot take up almost 25% of your cap.

True, but if he was a stretch 4 that was a big game performer, a guy you not only want on the floor, but need on the floor in the biggest playoff situations, the money honestly wouldn't bother me at all. The fact is that we know Tobias is not and never will be that player.

[Sixerscan]

Everyone keeps assuming that it's the salary that is the issue. The only difference between Tobias making what he is and Tobias making half of that is that he'd be a hell of a lot easier to move, and likely would already have been moved.

It's the fact that he isn't a fit for what this Sixers team needs, and he has to alter what he is as a player in order to fit that role. If he was a perfect fit on this roster and he could be counted on as a solid playoff performer in that role, the contract wouldn't matter and we wouldn't be discussing this ad nauseum.

The salary is absolutely the issue. By "alter his game" you mean not handle the ball as much, which he can do, and Crowder can't. He's also a better shooter than Crowder, and showed great progress on catch and shoot when Harden showed up and it became clear that was his role. Somehow people turn Tobias being a well rounded player into a negative lol.

Disappear in the playoffs? He averaged 16.9 PPG on good efficiency this year, in addition to the numbers I posted above Crowder has averaged 10.3 PPG in the playoffs since 2017. Somehow Harris is the one that disappears. Pretty clear it's about the money. It's fine to say he's overpaid because he is but people are going nuts with this stuff, he's a talented player.

Looking at the playoffs as a whole is disingenuous. It's great that he was good against Toronto in the first round, but that was the first round. He sucked against Miami in the second round, and that's more important.

And of course they really need his to re-allocate salary to multiple other needs. A stretch 4, and that's all he is on this team (and all he ever should be, but that's another story), cannot take up almost 25% of your cap.

Not sure why the Toronto series shouldn't matter, but he was 16 PPG 48% from the field 33% from 3 against Miami. He didn't dominate or anything but he didn't suck. That might be a higher scoring series than Jae Crowder has ever had in his life. He's not gonna average 25 PPG or something in a playoff series as the 4th option behind Maxey/Harden/Embiid playing 40 MPG. The 4th leading scorer on Miami in that series averaged 11.

That's my point it's about the money. His contract is what it is. In the meantime Harden solved it at least for this year like if Tobias was making $20 million this year they probably would have had the exact same offseason with access to the MLE and BAE.

There are very legit critiques to his game but people are just wrong if they think someone like Jae Crowder is in Harris' neighborhood as a player.

[LeonJordanJr24]

The goal is to get Crowder with Korkmaz, Niang ,Joe, spring and Thybulle if must. While keeping Tobias.

[mjkvol]

The goal is to get Crowder with Korkmaz, Niang ,Joe, spring and Thybulle if must. While keeping Tobias.

I think you need to post this a few more times. Some may not have gotten the point yet.

[ProcessDoctor]

I don't mind keeping him around, but it'd be nice to add another forward and have his minutes reduced. For example, if we somehow acquire Crowder, we could run the 3/4 as such:

Crowder(28)/House(16)/Tucker(4)
Harris(28)/Tucker(20)

In other words, just because he's getting paid $37 mil doesn't mean we ought to play him like he's actually worth that.

Glenn loves him. As long as Tobias is here he will be treated as a 'core' player and will be in the game in crunch time spots. The only way to change that is to move him.

Agreed, but it seems like there's no equal talent trade available for him at the moment. I think Tucker and Crowder provide more of what we need than Harris tbh (despite Harris being a better player than both in a vacuum).

I'd also still like to go for Crowder in case an injury happens to Tucker or Harris. I think Niang proved last year that he's a regular season 9th/10th man but probably shouldn't be playing in the playoffs.

[ProcessDoctor]

The goal is to get Crowder with Korkmaz, Niang ,Joe, spring and Thybulle if must. While keeping Tobias.

These 5 for 1 trades are killing me man lol.

[LeonJordanJr24]

The goal is to get Crowder with Korkmaz, Niang ,Joe, spring and Thybulle if must. While keeping Tobias.

These 5 for 1 trades are killing me man lol.

That's not a 5 for trade . I was listing the expendable none fitting players that won't help us now or in playoffs.

[Sixerscan]

The goal is to get Crowder with Korkmaz, Niang ,Joe, spring and Thybulle if must. While keeping Tobias.

These 5 for 1 trades are killing me man lol.

That's not a 5 for trade . I was listing the expendable none fitting players that won't help us now or in playoffs.

I wouldn't lead with that when you pitch the trade to Phoenix.

[LeonJordanJr24]

I always feel like Morey doesn't do all the nessecary moves to make this roster as deep as possible.

[the_process]

The salary is absolutely the issue. By "alter his game" you mean not handle the ball as much, which he can do, and Crowder can't. He's also a better shooter than Crowder, and showed great progress on catch and shoot when Harden showed up and it became clear that was his role. Somehow people turn Tobias being a well rounded player into a negative lol.

Disappear in the playoffs? He averaged 16.9 PPG on good efficiency this year, in addition to the numbers I posted above Crowder has averaged 10.3 PPG in the playoffs since 2017. Somehow Harris is the one that disappears. Pretty clear it's about the money. It's fine to say he's overpaid because he is but people are going nuts with this stuff, he's a talented player.

Looking at the playoffs as a whole is disingenuous. It's great that he was good against Toronto in the first round, but that was the first round. He sucked against Miami in the second round, and that's more important.

And of course they really need his to re-allocate salary to multiple other needs. A stretch 4, and that's all he is on this team (and all he ever should be, but that's another story), cannot take up almost 25% of your cap.

Not sure why the Toronto series shouldn't matter, but he was 16 PPG 48% from the field 33% from 3 against Miami. He didn't dominate or anything but he didn't suck. That might be a higher scoring series than Jae Crowder has ever had in his life. He's not gonna average 25 PPG or something in a playoff series as the 4th option behind Maxey/Harden/Embiid playing 40 MPG. The 4th leading scorer on Miami in that series averaged 11.

That's my point it's about the money. His contract is what it is. In the meantime Harden solved it at least for this year like if Tobias was making $20 million this year they probably would have had the exact same offseason with access to the MLE and BAE.

There are very legit critiques to his game but people are just wrong if they think someone like Jae Crowder is in Harris' neighborhood as a player.

So we're judging players by just PPG now, are we?

If Tobias never dribbles, shoots >40% from deep, and becomes an all-defense guy... then he can justify his existence even with the bloated salary and regardless of other stats.

Has that summed up Tobias as a player to this point? Or... has he been a half-assed iso hog who quietly sulks in his books when he doesn't get 20+ shots? With mediocre efficiency and mediocre at best defense to boot.

He has to do it for longer than just the last 30 games including playoffs of last year. Tigers changing their stripes and all of that.

[Sixerscan]

Looking at the playoffs as a whole is disingenuous. It's great that he was good against Toronto in the first round, but that was the first round. He sucked against Miami in the second round, and that's more important.

And of course they really need his to re-allocate salary to multiple other needs. A stretch 4, and that's all he is on this team (and all he ever should be, but that's another story), cannot take up almost 25% of your cap.

Not sure why the Toronto series shouldn't matter, but he was 16 PPG 48% from the field 33% from 3 against Miami. He didn't dominate or anything but he didn't suck. That might be a higher scoring series than Jae Crowder has ever had in his life. He's not gonna average 25 PPG or something in a playoff series as the 4th option behind Maxey/Harden/Embiid playing 40 MPG. The 4th leading scorer on Miami in that series averaged 11.

That's my point it's about the money. His contract is what it is. In the meantime Harden solved it at least for this year like if Tobias was making $20 million this year they probably would have had the exact same offseason with access to the MLE and BAE.

There are very legit critiques to his game but people are just wrong if they think someone like Jae Crowder is in Harris' neighborhood as a player.

So we're judging players by just PPG now, are we?

If Tobias never dribbles, shoots >40% from deep, and becomes an all-defense guy... then he can justify his existence even with the bloated salary and regardless of other stats.

Has that summed up Tobias as a player to this point? Or... has he been a half-assed iso hog who quietly sulks in his books when he doesn't get 20+ shots? With mediocre efficiency and mediocre at best defense to boot.

He has to do it for longer than just the last 30 games including playoffs of last year. Tigers changing their stripes and all of that.

Well yes if we're doing some Jae Crowder comp it seems notable to, comp him.

[76ciology]

The salary is absolutely the issue. By "alter his game" you mean not handle the ball as much, which he can do, and Crowder can't. He's also a better shooter than Crowder, and showed great progress on catch and shoot when Harden showed up and it became clear that was his role. Somehow people turn Tobias being a well rounded player into a negative lol.

Disappear in the playoffs? He averaged 16.9 PPG on good efficiency this year, in addition to the numbers I posted above Crowder has averaged 10.3 PPG in the playoffs since 2017. Somehow Harris is the one that disappears. Pretty clear it's about the money. It's fine to say he's overpaid because he is but people are going nuts with this stuff, he's a talented player.

Looking at the playoffs as a whole is disingenuous. It's great that he was good against Toronto in the first round, but that was the first round. He sucked against Miami in the second round, and that's more important.

And of course they really need his to re-allocate salary to multiple other needs. A stretch 4, and that's all he is on this team (and all he ever should be, but that's another story), cannot take up almost 25% of your cap.

Not sure why the Toronto series shouldn't matter, but he was 16 PPG 48% from the field 33% from 3 against Miami. He didn't dominate or anything but he didn't suck. That might be a higher scoring series than Jae Crowder has ever had in his life. He's not gonna average 25 PPG or something in a playoff series as the 4th option behind Maxey/Harden/Embiid playing 40 MPG. The 4th leading scorer on Miami in that series averaged 11.

That's my point it's about the money. His contract is what it is. In the meantime Harden solved it at least for this year like if Tobias was making $20 million this year they probably would have had the exact same offseason with access to the MLE and BAE.

There are very legit critiques to his game but people are just wrong if they think someone like Jae Crowder is in Harris' neighborhood as a player.

This is a great point.

[76ciology]

I find the Tobias for Crowder does not consider the second order consequence.

After the trade, you’d be left with a hole in scoring. And if you replace that scoring, would that scorer be able to play with your top 3 guys? Most of these cheap off the bench scorers are liabilities on the offensive end and are not as consistent on offense like Tobias.

Like Sixerscan said, Harden giving up 15M this year is like Tobias getting just a $20M per year contract that allows us to get Tucker, House and Melton.

The addition of Tucker, Melton and House, lessens the required load for Tobias on defense. The addition of Harden, lessens the required load for Tobias on offense.

All these moves makes Tobias, in effect, like an efficient 2 way 17ppg player on a $20M per year contract.

[76ciology]

If you’re going for the Crowder route, why not just go after Myles Turner?

Atleast try to move the needle on defense that it would make sense to sacrifice that much offense.

[the_process]

Not sure why the Toronto series shouldn't matter, but he was 16 PPG 48% from the field 33% from 3 against Miami. He didn't dominate or anything but he didn't suck. That might be a higher scoring series than Jae Crowder has ever had in his life. He's not gonna average 25 PPG or something in a playoff series as the 4th option behind Maxey/Harden/Embiid playing 40 MPG. The 4th leading scorer on Miami in that series averaged 11.

That's my point it's about the money. His contract is what it is. In the meantime Harden solved it at least for this year like if Tobias was making $20 million this year they probably would have had the exact same offseason with access to the MLE and BAE.

There are very legit critiques to his game but people are just wrong if they think someone like Jae Crowder is in Harris' neighborhood as a player.

So we're judging players by just PPG now, are we?

If Tobias never dribbles, shoots >40% from deep, and becomes an all-defense guy... then he can justify his existence even with the bloated salary and regardless of other stats.

Has that summed up Tobias as a player to this point? Or... has he been a half-assed iso hog who quietly sulks in his books when he doesn't get 20+ shots? With mediocre efficiency and mediocre at best defense to boot.

He has to do it for longer than just the last 30 games including playoffs of last year. Tigers changing their stripes and all of that.

Well yes if we're doing some Jae Crowder comp it seems notable to, comp him.

Just straight comparing the two misses the point, though. Yes Tobias is better. But what Tobias likes to do is not at all what the Sixers need.

[SixersSince82]

I find the Tobias for Crowder does not consider the second order consequence.

After the trade, you’d be left with a hole in scoring. And if you replace that scoring, would that scorer be able to play with your top 3 guys? Most of these cheap off the bench scorers are liabilities on the offensive end and are not as consistent on offense like Tobias.

Like Sixerscan said, Harden giving up 15M this year is like Tobias getting just a $20M per year contract that allows us to get Tucker, House and Melton.

The addition of Tucker, Melton and House, lessens the required load for Tobias on defense. The addition of Harden, lessens the required load for Tobias on offense.

All these moves makes Tobias, in effect, like an efficient 2 way 17ppg player on a $20M per year contract.

I think this stuff about missing Tobias scoring is somewhat overrated.

Between Maxey improving and Joel and Harden developing even more chemistry, plus whomever you'd get for Tobias, plus improved defense likely leading to a couple extra buckets a game, I can't imagine we struggle to find 17 points a game. I haven't looked into this but how many 4th options really average 17 a game anyway? It wouldn't surprise me if his point total drops a bit this year.

[Jailblazers7]

Tobias was a good soldier as soon as we got Harden and played his role extremely well. I’d expect more of the same given his age, relationship with Doc, and obvious place in the pecking order.

Next offseason he’ll be an expiring contract and maybe will have good value. But until then, it just doesn’t make sense to trade him unless something crazy falls into our laps.

[mjkvol]

I find the Tobias for Crowder does not consider the second order consequence.

After the trade, you’d be left with a hole in scoring. And if you replace that scoring, would that scorer be able to play with your top 3 guys? Most of these cheap off the bench scorers are liabilities on the offensive end and are not as consistent on offense like Tobias.

Like Sixerscan said, Harden giving up 15M this year is like Tobias getting just a $20M per year contract that allows us to get Tucker, House and Melton.

The addition of Tucker, Melton and House, lessens the required load for Tobias on defense. The addition of Harden, lessens the required load for Tobias on offense.

All these moves makes Tobias, in effect, like an efficient 2 way 17ppg player on a $20M per year contract.

I think this stuff about missing Tobias scoring is somewhat overrated.

Between Maxey improving and Joel and Harden developing even more chemistry, plus whomever you'd get for Tobias, plus improved defense likely leading to a couple extra buckets a game, I can't imagine we struggle to find 17 points a game. I haven't looked into this but how many 4th options really average 17 a game anyway? It wouldn't surprise me if his point total drops a bit this year.

This exactly.

I'll add that if Tobias' offensive role is reduced, as it should be with this roster, he is going to be in uncharted waters - iso scoring and having the ball on mediocre teams has been his signature most of his career. How does he handle a reduced role, and how does Glenn deal with one of his favorite players being unhappy?

[Sixerscan]

Yeah he was at 14.3 PPG and shot 40% from 3 post break. Still a lot better than Crowder.

I understand what you guys mean, there's an archetype of a 3&D guy that's more valuable than Tobias, but it would be someone like Mikal Bridges not Crowder who is pretty mediocre and has lost a step. He was also almost out of the league a few years ago. I don't think you're getting the level of player you guys want for Tobias because of how overpaid he is. Maybe when his contract comes expiring.

IDK how upset Tobias actually is with his role, wouldn't want to make a trade that makes the team worse because just because you anticipate him getting upset. Not everyone is Ben Simmons some people do the job their asked even if it's not exactly what they want to do. It's not uncharted waters he's basically going to fill the same role he did last year post trade.

[mjkvol]

Yeah he was at 14.3 PPG and shot 40% from 3 post break. Still a lot better than Crowder.

I understand what you guys mean, there's an archetype of a 3&D guy that's more valuable than Tobias, but it would be someone like Mikal Bridges not Crowder who is pretty mediocre and has lost a step. He was also almost out of the league a few years ago. I don't think you're getting the level of player you guys want for Tobias because of how overpaid he is. Maybe when his contract comes expiring.

IDK how upset Tobias actually is with his role, wouldn't want to make a trade that makes the team worse because just because you anticipate him getting upset. Not everyone is Ben Simmons some people do the job their asked even if it's not exactly what they want to do. It's not uncharted waters he's basically going to fill the same role he did last year post trade.

We'll see. I hope you're right because whatever anyone thinks, he'll be here when the season starts.

I agree completely that Bridges would be a far preferable option to Crowder, but I don't think anyone is suggesting that we trade Tobias for Crowder, more like Thybulle and whatever else Phoenix might want from our dustbin, which is highly unlikely.

Regarding his demeanor if his role is reduced, that remains to be seen, but Tobias is a real pro, unlike Simmons. My issue is that Rivers loves him and will probably placate him in the game plan. I don't want to dump him, but somehow moving him for a useful piece at the deadline would be optimum.