Political Roundtable Part XXXI

[Zonkerbl]

BORED

[pancakes3]

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2022/08/15/inside-the-war-between-trump-and-his-generals

::vomit::

[dckingsfan]

The IRA passed the Senate...

so next we can expect lots of nits to be picked with what each person's idea of a more perfect bill would have been. Nothing wrong with that up to the point of saying it shouldn't have passed at all since it wasn't perfect.

Like everyone in the media has been saying (lately), compared to where we were a week ago...

Well, I'm worried that the petroleum lobby loves this bill. That's not a good sign.

I am still reading through the bill to see what I don't like... vs. what the perfect bill would have been.

The Rs seem genuinely pissed off that the Ds got something done but I haven't seen anything material from them on why this bill is "bad". Other than it came from the Ds.

[Zonkerbl]

oh they're complaining about how it raises taxes. wah wah boo hoo

[Wizardspride]

Read on Twitter

?t=a8LpsG-5U1W0bNKrJEE8Ug&s=19

[Pointgod]

The IRA passed the Senate...

so next we can expect lots of nits to be picked with what each person's
idea of a more perfect bill would have been. Nothing wrong with that
up to the point of saying it shouldn't have passed at all since it wasn't perfect.

Like everyone in the media has been saying (lately), compared to where
we were a week ago...

Well, I'm worried that the petroleum lobby loves this bill. That's not a good sign.

The bill is something that you really have to read to make your own judgments. There are a lot of bad faith actors on Twitter that are trying to paint the deal in a negative light.

Two articles that go into detail about the section that deals with drilling leases.

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/planetpolicy/2022/08/04/the-climate-bills-oil-and-gas-provisions-are-a-worthwhile-tradeoff/

Ignore the attention grabbing title of this one below, it goes into a detailed explanation though.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/allanmarks/2022/08/03/inflation-reduction-act-faustian-bargain-could-jeopardize-offshore-wind-renewable-energy-on-federal-lands/

Regardless of what you think about this one provision of the bill, everyone agrees the climate change provisions in the bill are overall a net positive. Remember there’s only so much that can be addressed through a reconciliation bill at the Federal level. It will also take the states also tackling climate change to move things forward.

And as much as the Petroleum lobby might be more favourable, Pharma companies hate it.

Read on Twitter

[Pointgod]

so next we can expect lots of nits to be picked with what each person's idea of a more perfect bill would have been. Nothing wrong with that up to the point of saying it shouldn't have passed at all since it wasn't perfect.

Like everyone in the media has been saying (lately), compared to where we were a week ago...

Well, I'm worried that the petroleum lobby loves this bill. That's not a good sign.

I am still reading through the bill to see what I don't like... vs. what the perfect bill would have been.

The Rs seem genuinely pissed off that the Ds got something done but I haven't seen anything material from them on why this bill is "bad". Other than it came from the Ds.

Yes that’s literally all they have. Not only does it reduce the deficit (Democrats are more fiscally responsible than Republicans), it actually means that Democrats are a competent party working for the American people. It blows the whole Republican cynicism about the government out of the water

[Zonkerbl]

so uh, this just in... Mar a Lago got raided by the FBI, apparently they're looking for classified documents...

[dobrojim]

My wife just ran into the room to tell me the news is reporting the FBI has
raided Mara-Lago. Remember when I said a couple pages back the dam appears
to be breaking? All those pubs who have been supporting/rationalizing a crook
are going to look pretty silly if this continues in this direction.

I wonder if Golfy McBonespurs will split and run to a country with no
extradition. Or maybe we can trade him for BG. That would really hurt
tRUmp's feelings.

[Zonkerbl]

Read on Twitter

Like to see the 500 twits who incompetently tried to storm the Capitol to try and stage a civil war now, would just drive the point home that this all should have happened sooner

[pancakes3]

Read on Twitter

(thread)

[Zonkerbl]

BORED

LOL

[dobrojim]

So many ironies

tRump in trouble for mishandling classified and/or govt property (remember
one of the arguments against an HRC presidency was she couldn't be trusted).
The King of Projection being investigated for the same sorts of things they
accuse(d) Dems of while using that as a political argument for their own election.
"you can't trust dems. Elect us and we'll uphold the law".

The self proclaimed law and order party calling for the defunding of law enforcement
and threatening them with retribution.

Zonk on the same side as Gosar and MTG. For the record, I'm also in support of
defunding although I think it's political misguided to call it defunding as opposed
to reimagining or some other euphemism. (Zonk, I know your position is a good faith
one unlike these pubs who just wanna escape responsibility for their own behavior
now that it's their ox that's being gored). Remember the golden idol at CPAC. LOL.

[Zonkerbl]

Just watched Maddow's show last night, from what she was able to piece together, and she doesn't say it in so many words, but it looks like:
The POTUS archives discovered that key documents were missing

They went to Trump to ask for them back

After a year of resistance he gave them 15 boxes of documents

The archives produces a 100 page list of relevant unclassified documents (schedules, talking points, etc.)

They also produced an unclassified 3 page list of classified documents (!!!)

And there are documents that are so classified that a list of them would have to be classified (!!!!!!!)

and then the AG signed a warrant for FBI agents to go to Mar a Lago and grab something.

You can reasonably assume that they knew damn well that what they were looking for was there, so it sounds like Trump admitted he had classified material that absolutely cannot be shared with Putin that he refused to turn over, so they went to Mar a Lago to take it. Trump didn't flush it because it was valuable to him and he assumed he would get away with just "negotiating" over giving it back forever. So Garland decided "here's what we'll do - we're going to take it, and then you can argue with us whether that was a legal thing to do, rather than us letting you just keep this highly classified material in your hands"

If this is true... I mean, JFC!!!!!!!!!! BUT HER EMAILS

[Zonkerbl]

Just saw a lawyer on MSNBC point out that once the FBI has the documents they want, they might just say sayonara and stop and not press any charges. That's the most likely outcome imho.

[Zonkerbl]

I do worry that the forced birth mistake was going to end up in the dems keeping the house and expanding the Senate but now I don't know. I hope this is worth it.

[montestewart]

Just saw a lawyer on MSNBC point out that once the FBI has the documents they want, they might just say sayonara and stop and not press any charges. That's the most likely outcome imho.

And the FAKE NEWS world will claim no charges proves there was nothing there, illegal search, partisan harassment, etc.

If charged over the missing documents, he could claim that as president he can declassify anything. Not sure that argument is actually valid, but if it was accepted, end of story. Repundits offered that argument when he revealed classified information to Russian diplomats.

[Zonkerbl]

Just saw a lawyer on MSNBC point out that once the FBI has the documents they want, they might just say sayonara and stop and not press any charges. That's the most likely outcome imho.

And the FAKE NEWS world will claim no charges proves there was nothing there, illegal search, partisan harassment, etc.

If charged over the missing documents, he could claim that as president he can declassify anything. Not sure that argument is actually valid, but if it was accepted, end of story. Repundits offered that argument when he revealed classified information to Russian diplomats.

yeah that's the part that doesn't make any sense. He could easily say "I declassified it before I left office" and that would be the end of it. Maybe he somehow admitted he didn't do that (the fact that the archives was able to compile a three page list of classified docs makes me suspect this). Now he has no declassification authority.

[doclinkin]

Just watched Maddow's show last night, from what she was able to piece together, and she doesn't say it in so many words, but it looks like:
The POTUS archives discovered that key documents were missing

They went to Trump to ask for them back

After a year of resistance he gave them 15 boxes of documents

The archives produces a 100 page list of relevant unclassified documents (schedules, talking points, etc.)

They also produced an unclassified 3 page list of classified documents (!!!)

And there are documents that are so classified that a list of them would have to be classified (!!!!!!!)

and then the AG signed a warrant for FBI agents to go to Mar a Lago and grab something.

You can reasonably assume that they knew damn well that what they were looking for was there, so it sounds like Trump admitted he had classified material that absolutely cannot be shared with Putin that he refused to turn over, so they went to Mar a Lago to take it. Trump didn't flush it because it was valuable to him and he assumed he would get away with just "negotiating" over giving it back forever. So Garland decided "here's what we'll do - we're going to take it, and then you can argue with us whether that was a legal thing to do, rather than us letting you just keep this highly classified material in your hands"

If this is true... I mean, JFC!!!!!!!!!! BUT HER EMAILS

Except. He is not reacting with the level of vitriol and explosions that he usually does when he is caught red-handed. He explodes more about his tax information becoming public than his weak protest about this. My read is: Trump's Russian handlers were too smart to let those documents remain in his possession. Zero chance they were in his safe, or at least that safe. That material has already been shared with Putin. Then shredded burned destroyed. Flushed no doubt.

[montestewart]

Just saw a lawyer on MSNBC point out that once the FBI has the documents they want, they might just say sayonara and stop and not press any charges. That's the most likely outcome imho.

And the FAKE NEWS world will claim no charges proves there was nothing there, illegal search, partisan harassment, etc.

If charged over the missing documents, he could claim that as president he can declassify anything. Not sure that argument is actually valid, but if it was accepted, end of story. Repundits offered that argument when he revealed classified information to Russian diplomats.

If he “declassified” them at any point with the specific intent of providing them to a foreign power, that seems like it would still fit the legal definition of treason or high crimes and misdemeanors.

If a president has two terms separated by another administration, I assume he can still be impeached in the second term for crimes committed in the first term. Nixon appeared on the verge of being impeached during his second term, though I can’t recall if that was for cover up in the second term or included crimes from first term. I wonder though about impeachment for crimes committed as a former president. Like, if you gain office by assassinating your rival, I assume that’s an impeachable offense though committed prior to becoming president, but I have no authority on that. Just another fuzzy area of law Trump has both brought to light and exploited.

Democracy right now looks as defenseless as computers and the internet in the early days, our voting machines and volunteers as vulnerable as all those computers and accounts using PASSWORD or 1234 as passwords, full SS numbers revealed online, etc. Trump claiming fraud in a brazen and desperate attempt to commit fraud is the volunteer firefighter repeatedly committing arson, being first on the scene, and playing the hero. The most obnoxiously flamboyant sociopaths are apparently mesmerizing to some fans.