Who's better between jerry west and oscar robertson?

[Gibson22]

I think they are both underrated and have a good argument for top 10 all times, and I have both ahead of kobe in my all time list. I've been a fan of jerry west because he's a great man, victim of ring bias, and I think that his two way excellence, and playoff performances make him an unbeliavable player. He was maybe the best shooter of his era, at worst a top 4 scorer and offensive player of the pre 3 point era (arguably the best offensive player) and one of the best guard defenders ever. His playoff numbers are unbelievable. He was also a great athlete.
As far as oscar, I used to underrate him because of the triple double stuff, I tought it was a product of the high pace and I undervalued him as a player, but when I looked more into it I realized: 1) How absurdly high his rTS% was (+7,5 for his career) 2)The fact that his cincinnaty royals team consistently had the #1 offense in the league, thanks to him. And so I concluded that he was by far the best passer and playmaker of his era, while also being an excellent scorer due to his combination of very good shooting and athleticism.

They have similar careers, two guards who played from 1961 to 1974, both have won one ring when they were kinda past their prime, both have great numbers. Who do you rank higher as far as career, and consider better at his best?

[coastalmarker99]

Jerry west utterly dominated the postseason and was an absolute killer under pressure and if not for Baylor choking his ass off in countless big games vs Boston.

As In 1962 he shot 13 out of 40 from the field in an overtime game seven loss while West was 14 out of 30.

In 1966 he shot 6 out of 22 from the field in a two-point loss while West was 12 out of 27.

in 1969 he shot 8 out of 22 from the field in a two-point loss while West was 14 out of 29 and Wilt was 7 out of 8.

He easily could have 4 to 6 rings


Also for further information on how legendary West was in the postseason.

Here are Jerry West's game seven averages

4- 5 W-L record

30.9 PPG (Regular season career average is 27.0 ppg)

7.7 RPG (Regular season career average is 5.8 rpg)

6.8 APG (Regular season career average is 6.7 APG)

47.9 FG% (Regular season career average is 47.4 FG%)

TS% 54.3 Regular season career average is 54.9 TS%)


Here are Jerry West's elimination games averages

13 11 W-L record

29.3 PPG (Regular season career average is 27.0 ppg)

6.4 RPG (Regular season career average is 5.8 rpg)

6.4 APG (Regular season career average is 6.7 APG)

55% TS (Regular season career average is 54.9 TS%)


Here are Jerry West's finals averages

30.5 PPG (Regular season career average is 27.0 ppg)

5.0 RPG (Regular season career average is 5.8 rpg)

5.6 APG (Regular season career average is 6.7 APG)

45.9 FG% (Regular season career average is 47.4 FG%)





West also finished second in MVP voting 4 times throughout his career and was so respected by his peers that he is the only player in NBA history to get the FMVP on a losing team.


West was easily a better player than Oscar.

His defence basically crushes Oscar's.

And his offensive game is on par with Oscar

[LAL1947]

Jerry west utterly dominated the postseason and was an absolute killer under pressure and if not for Baylor choking his ass off in countless big games vs Boston.

In 1962 Baylor shot 13 out of 40 from the field in an overtime game seven loss while West was 14 out of 30.
In 1966 Baylor shot 6 out of 22 from the field in a two-point loss while West was 12 out of 27.
In 1969 Baylor shot 8 out of 22 from the field in a two-point loss while West was 14 out of 29 and Wilt was 7 out of 8.

West easily could have 4 to 6 rings.

Also for further information on how legendary West was in the postseason.

Here are Jerry West's game seven averages:

4- 5 W-L record

30.9 PPG (Regular season career average is 27.0 ppg)
7.7 RPG (Regular season career average is 5.8 rpg)
6.8 APG (Regular season career average is 6.7 APG)
47.9 FG% (Regular season career average is 47.4 FG%)
TS% 54.3 Regular season career average is 54.9 TS%)

Here are Jerry West's elimination games averages:

13 11 W-L record

29.3 PPG (Regular season career average is 27.0 ppg)
6.4 RPG (Regular season career average is 5.8 rpg)
6.4 APG (Regular season career average is 6.7 APG)
55% TS (Regular season career average is 54.9 TS%)

Here are Jerry West's finals averages:

30.5 PPG (Regular season career average is 27.0 ppg)
5.0 RPG (Regular season career average is 5.8 rpg)
5.6 APG (Regular season career average is 6.7 APG)
45.9 FG% (Regular season career average is 47.4 FG%)

West also finished second in MVP voting 4 times throughout his career and was so respected by his peers that he is the only player in NBA history to get the FMVP on a losing team.

West was easily a better player than Oscar.

His defence basically crushes Oscar's.

And his offensive game is on par with Oscar

This.

[penbeast0]

Both great scorers, particularly efficient relative to their peers. West has more range and probably a better finisher, West is also the better defender. Oscar is the better playmaker and has a major advantage on health as West was a bit injury prone. West seems to have the intangibles advantage as Oscar is often portrayed as a Chris Paul/Jimmy Butler style player impatient with the mistakes of others. Very close and a major step up from any other guards during most of their career, only Frazier at the tail end of their career can challenge their supremacy. You can go either way depending on what you value more, I am a long way from saying it's an easy choice between them though I tend to pick Jerry West as well.

[CharityStripe34]

Was Oscar a bad defender?

[70sFan]

Was Oscar a bad defender?

No, at least not in games I have seen

[Gibson22]

Jerry west utterly dominated the postseason and was an absolute killer under pressure and if not for Baylor choking his ass off in countless big games vs Boston.

As In 1962 he shot 13 out of 40 from the field in an overtime game seven loss while West was 14 out of 30.

In 1966 he shot 6 out of 22 from the field in a two-point loss while West was 12 out of 27.

in 1969 he shot 8 out of 22 from the field in a two-point loss while West was 14 out of 29 and Wilt was 7 out of 8.

He easily could have 4 to 6 rings


Also for further information on how legendary West was in the postseason.

Here are Jerry West's game seven averages

4- 5 W-L record

30.9 PPG (Regular season career average is 27.0 ppg)

7.7 RPG (Regular season career average is 5.8 rpg)

6.8 APG (Regular season career average is 6.7 APG)

47.9 FG% (Regular season career average is 47.4 FG%)

TS% 54.3 Regular season career average is 54.9 TS%)


Here are Jerry West's elimination games averages

13 11 W-L record

29.3 PPG (Regular season career average is 27.0 ppg)

6.4 RPG (Regular season career average is 5.8 rpg)

6.4 APG (Regular season career average is 6.7 APG)

55% TS (Regular season career average is 54.9 TS%)


Here are Jerry West's finals averages

30.5 PPG (Regular season career average is 27.0 ppg)

5.0 RPG (Regular season career average is 5.8 rpg)

5.6 APG (Regular season career average is 6.7 APG)

45.9 FG% (Regular season career average is 47.4 FG%)





West also finished second in MVP voting 4 times throughout his career and was so respected by his peers that he is the only player in NBA history to get the FMVP on a losing team.


West was easily a better player than Oscar.

His defence basically crushes Oscar's.

And his offensive game is on par with Oscar

Calm down!
Anyway I'm not sure it's that clear cut. West's defense is better than oscar's, but Oscar's playmaking/passing is better than jerry's. They are similar scorers (oscar has better rts%). I agree that jerry was an incredible playoff performer, but it's not like oscar's performance dropped in the playoffs. As far as legendary performances, he took the 63 celtics to game 7, averaging 33/12/9 on 58 ts% (which is incredible for that era), and in game 7 he dropped 43/6/6 on 64 ts%, game 6 he dropped 36/15/14 on 52 ts%... obviously he has less legendary playoff performances but that's because he played in a worse team so he didn't play in the playoffs as much.

I still side with jerry, but I think that it's hard to give a definitive answer

[falcolombardi]

Both great scorers, particularly efficient relative to their peers. West has more range and probably a better finisher, West is also the better defender. Oscar is the better playmaker and has a major advantage on health as West was a bit injury prone. West seems to have the intangibles advantage as Oscar is often portrayed as a Chris Paul/Jimmy Butler style player impatient with the mistakes of others. Very close and a major step up from any other guards during most of their career, only Frazier at the tail end of their career can challenge their supremacy. You can go either way depending on what you value more, I am a long way from saying it's an easy choice between them though I tend to pick Jerry West as well.

If west was a superior finisher and inside scorer (and free throw drawer if i am not mistaken) but oscar remained a bit more efficient

Wouldnt that makes us think oscar was actually the clearly better jumpshooter?

[Colbinii]

Both great scorers, particularly efficient relative to their peers. West has more range and probably a better finisher, West is also the better defender. Oscar is the better playmaker and has a major advantage on health as West was a bit injury prone. West seems to have the intangibles advantage as Oscar is often portrayed as a Chris Paul/Jimmy Butler style player impatient with the mistakes of others. Very close and a major step up from any other guards during most of their career, only Frazier at the tail end of their career can challenge their supremacy. You can go either way depending on what you value more, I am a long way from saying it's an easy choice between them though I tend to pick Jerry West as well.

If west was a superior finisher and inside scorer (and free throw drawer if i am not mistaken) but oscar remained a bit more efficient

Wouldnt that makes us think oscar was actually the clearly better jumpshooter?

Not exactly.

Shot distribution can affect this.

West could be better at the rim, mid range and deep yet still have a lower TS%/eFG%

[falcolombardi]

Both great scorers, particularly efficient relative to their peers. West has more range and probably a better finisher, West is also the better defender. Oscar is the better playmaker and has a major advantage on health as West was a bit injury prone. West seems to have the intangibles advantage as Oscar is often portrayed as a Chris Paul/Jimmy Butler style player impatient with the mistakes of others. Very close and a major step up from any other guards during most of their career, only Frazier at the tail end of their career can challenge their supremacy. You can go either way depending on what you value more, I am a long way from saying it's an easy choice between them though I tend to pick Jerry West as well.

If west was a superior finisher and inside scorer (and free throw drawer if i am not mistaken) but oscar remained a bit more efficient

Wouldnt that makes us think oscar was actually the clearly better jumpshooter?

Not exactly.

Shot distribution can affect this.

West could be better at the rim, mid range and deep yet still have a lower TS%/eFG%

But of the two west is the one more known for getting to the rim or drawing free throws

If anythingh that should mean west is taking the usually higher percentage shots

If oscar was the one taking more 2 point jumpers and less shots in the paint/free throws and still remaining more efficient?

That would make me think oscar was easily a superior shooter.

If i am told thata guy is a better inside scorer who gets to the paint more, draws mpre free throws and is arguably the better jumpshooter has a lower true shooting? Somethingh just doesnt add up in the equation there must be -somethingh- oscar was doing better

And the most reasonable explanation would be oscar being the better jumpshooter by at least as big of a margin as west is the superior inside scorer

The other option would be west not actually being a more efficient/voluminous inside scorer. Example oscar being actually able to score more (or more efficiently) inside than him which would go against the better inside scorer argument in west favor

[Samurai]

Other than Russell vs Wilt, West vs Oscar is probably the most frequently debated comparison among peers throughout history. I remember it being constantly being discussed back when both were playing. At the time they played, i.e. within the context of that era, Oscar was often considered a tad better. In their prime, Oscar tended to average a point or two more per game and since he tended to attempt fewer long-range shots, often had a slightly higher FG%. And in those days, those were the two stats (other than assists where Oscar has a clear advantage) that people paid attention to. And frankly, I think Oscar's game was better suited towards the 60's style of play than West; I think West's game would translate to today's game better than Oscar's.

Looking at them through a 60's lens, I'd agree that Oscar may be a hair better but it is extremely close. Looking at them through a 2022 lens, I would pick West over Oscar if I were starting a team today. It would still be close but it would be clearer in my mind than Oscar's advantage using the 60's lens. The difference is I believe West may have the highest portability of any guard. He played in arguably the worst era for his skillset and was still an all-time great; he would be a superstar in any era and arguably even better in a later era than he was in his own. He'd be the first guard I would pick if I were starting a team because he could fit and star on pretty much any team without interference. Oscar wouldn't be as good of a fit if the next guard selected for my team was another ball-dominant playmaker (I don't think he'd be an ideal player to match with Cousy, CP3, etc.). With West, it really doesn't matter. If he were paired with Cousy or CP3, West could easily play off-ball and be a deadly catch-and-shoot marksman. With Cousy, you could "hide" Cousy more on defense because West could handle the more challenging defensive assignments better than Oscar could. Oscar wasn't bad defensively, he just wasn't a first team All-Defensive star like West. If you paired West with an off-ball SG like Reggie Miller or Klay Thompson, West could easily take over as the playmaking PG. Portability wasn't even a term I ever heard of back when they were playing but it's an important factor in today's evaluation process.

[Owly]

Both great scorers, particularly efficient relative to their peers. West has more range and probably a better finisher, West is also the better defender. Oscar is the better playmaker and has a major advantage on health as West was a bit injury prone. West seems to have the intangibles advantage as Oscar is often portrayed as a Chris Paul/Jimmy Butler style player impatient with the mistakes of others. Very close and a major step up from any other guards during most of their career, only Frazier at the tail end of their career can challenge their supremacy. You can go either way depending on what you value more, I am a long way from saying it's an easy choice between them though I tend to pick Jerry West as well.

If west was a superior finisher and inside scorer (and free throw drawer if i am not mistaken) but oscar remained a bit more efficient

Wouldnt that makes us think oscar was actually the clearly better jumpshooter?

Not exactly.

Shot distribution can affect this.

West could be better at the rim, mid range and deep yet still have a lower TS%/eFG%

Came to say something akin to this, in terms of being at least "Not necessarily" because you can be worse at every range and more efficient if you're getting to the more efficient ranges more ... now there are counterpoints too though
1) it is asserted that West was the better foul drawer ... if true that would mean West getting the the better proportion of the most efficient shots
counter 1a) without checking year for year etc based on career ftr Robertson is marginally ahead though perhaps close enough to be thought functionally a tie (.468 to .462).
2) "not necessarily, because there is a plausible alternative" doesn't mean that positing West as the better finisher itself doesn't leave less room, less way for him to be a better outside shooter. So it's not wrong that calling West better inside means in a vacuum it's more likely Robertson was better outside.

There are different ways around this: Robertson, with smarts and power does seem to have been good at getting good shots.

That said I think Robertson's shooting prowess does get undersold, he's better from the stripe than West - an advantage that [fwiw in the smaller sample] grows in the playoffs with Robertson better and West worse - (again West could be better from "outside outside" where Robertson is better or more often in the shorter midrange though to an extent, bar spacing, this is essentially just giving Robertson the edge in another area) but West tended to get brought up more in the after the fact shooter lists and whilst I am far from certain, it's plausible that a (perhaps unconscious) racial bias may be at play given the archetype (and perhaps reality in terms of proportion among elites) of the shooter skewing more white.


Overall fwiw I lean Robertson. Both seem substantially impactful. Robertson through better shooting (in the sense of all shots accuracy) and better health/availability/functional longevity (i.e. being on court more) has a better than 800 ts add advantage. I don't think scoring's a tie then and I think he's the better passer too. I suspect/believe West to be the better defender. Given the lack of data on this end the range of what's possible is fairly large. Without close inspection I'm inclined to think Robertson may have peaked higher which, which may give a non-linear advantage in championship equity. Given someone has cited MVP 2nd place finishes I'll note that Oscar, fwiw, has more MVP Shares (and an MVP) and has tended to rate higher on published all time lists. As ever older players means greater uncertainty and greater range/margin for error.

[penbeast0]

I don't think it's racial, I think West had more of a long range jumper or slash mentality while Oscar was famous for working his man, if you gave him a 20 footer, he'd try to work you for a 15 footer, if you gave him the 12 footer, he'd try to push in for 10. He was so much stronger than any of the other guards of his era (including West) that he could finish through defenders more than West who got knocked down more and tended to be more reliant on speed and getting separation.

If it was regular season only, I'd go Oscar, with postseason heroics included, I lean West though Oscar more frequently tended to face Russell or Wilt early in the playoffs and they were both difficult defenders to face and played mainly in the Eastern conference.

[Stalwart]

Neither one of them were better than Kobe. Thats just your typical PC Board hipster take. Id put Jerry over Oscar though.

[falcolombardi]

I don't think it's racial, I think West had more of a long range jumper or slash mentality while Oscar was famous for working his man, if you gave him a 20 footer, he'd try to work you for a 15 footer, if you gave him the 12 footer, he'd try to push in for 10. He was so much stronger than any of the other guards of his era (including West) that he could finish through defenders more than West who got knocked down more and tended to be more reliant on speed and getting separation.

That seems to be a good thingh no? If he is able to get better shots where west is forced to take longer jumpers that are worth the same that is part of their jumpshooting skillsets too

And if west could get similar jumpers but just liked to take longer ones for no clear benefit then that would also talk well about oscar shot selection relative to west

If wr assume that west would have better efficiency at 3 point range today. Well it is possible but also too much into guessing for my taste and may be only based in west taking more long jumpers without necesarrily being better at them

Taking longer 2's at lower efficiency is not a good thingh per se for west case here

And the fact oscar is a actually a slightly superior free throw shooter gives me even more pause at assuming west was a superior jumpshooter

Then there is other stuff we dont know like turnover economy.

I have been watching some west footage recently to get a better grip on him ( i will admit mpst of it is from the 70 finals as what i could find more of)

and limited/post peak as it is, he doesnt seem to be a curry/rip hamilton/reggie/ray allen esque non stop moving off ball threat. And his handle is good but i feel like he commits a bit too many careless turnovers where he lets his handle too lose to be pickpocketed

He doesnt dominate the ball dont get me wrong but is not moving as much off ball as a havlicek (another guy i am watching footage incidentally as i am seeing 66 finals stuff for wesr) and does most of his work in isolation

I want to watch oscar later and compare their ball dominance and ball security specifically to see how true it actually is that oscar is the much more "ballhog" player amd compare the tighness of their handle and their awareness on ball

[Cavsfansince84]

Neither one of them were better than Kobe. Thats just your typical PC Board hipster take. Id put Jerry over Oscar though.

Its more of a hipster take to put Kobe over them tbh. The amount of disrespect some of you shovel towards posters on this board is just ludicrous.

[Gibson22]

Neither one of them were better than Kobe. Thats just your typical PC Board hipster take. Id put Jerry over Oscar though.

Why?

[penbeast0]

I don't think it's racial, I think West had more of a long range jumper or slash mentality while Oscar was famous for working his man, if you gave him a 20 footer, he'd try to work you for a 15 footer, if you gave him the 12 footer, he'd try to push in for 10. He was so much stronger than any of the other guards of his era (including West) that he could finish through defenders more than West who got knocked down more and tended to be more reliant on speed and getting separation.

That seems to be a good thingh no? If he is able to get better shots where west is forced to take longer jumpers that are worth the same that is part of their jumpshooting skillsets too

And if west could get similar jumpers but just liked to take longer ones for no clear benefit then that would also talk well about oscar shot selection relative to west

If wr assume that west would have better efficiency at 3 point range today. Well it is possible but also too much into guessing for my taste and may be only based in west taking more long jumpers without necesarrily being better at them

Taking longer 2's at lower efficiency is not a good thingh per se for west case here

And the fact oscar is a actually a slightly superior free throw shooter gives me even more pause at assuming west was a superior jumpshooter

Then there is other stuff we dont know like turnover economy.

I have been watching some west footage recently to get a better grip on him ( i will admit mpst of it is from the 70 finals as what i could find more of)

and limited/post peak as it is, he doesnt seem to be a curry/rip hamilton/reggie/ray allen esque non stop moving off ball threat. And his handle is good but i feel like he commits a bit too many careless turnovers where he lets his handle too lose to be pickpocketed

He doesnt dominate the ball dont get me wrong but is not moving as much off ball as a havlicek (another guy i am watching footage incidentally as i am seeing 66 finals stuff for wesr) and does most of his work in isolation

I want to watch oscar later and compare their ball dominance and ball security specifically to see how true it actually is that oscar is the much more "ballhog" player amd compare the tighness of their handle and their awareness on ball

I'd say Oscar's handle was tighter and court vision better. Neither were really off ball players, especially that late in West's career where he didn't have Baylor as the alternative playmaker. If West's shooting range gives an advantage, it's not in his scoring per se but in how much he stretches the floor to open space for his bigs. Oscar played most of his career with one of the early great stretch bigs, Jerry Lucas, whose range would presumably open the floor for Oscar a bit. I don't know how to measure this though, especially for that era.

[70sFan]

Neither one of them were better than Kobe. Thats just your typical PC Board hipster take. Id put Jerry over Oscar though.

This thread is not about Kobe, there is no reason to mention him here.

[Stalwart]

Neither one of them were better than Kobe. Thats just your typical PC Board hipster take. Id put Jerry over Oscar though.

This thread is not about Kobe, there is no reason to mention him here.

The literal first sentence of this thread:

"I think they are both underrated and have a good argument for top 10 all times, and I have both ahead of kobe in my all time list."

I was responding to the OP, actually. Why did the OP single out Kobe if there is no reason to mention him? The thread starter is trying to use Kobe as the gatekeeper in this discussion.