Who was the best player in the 79 sonics?

[falcolombardi]

The seattle 79' team has to be one of the most forgotten title teams ever. Including two of their top 3 players being mostly forgotten

So who do you think was their best player? What are goof stylistic or impact comparisions to dennis johnson, sikma and gus williams at the time of their ring?

Who was better at their peak among sikma, Gus williams and Dennis johnson

[AEnigma]

I would go Gus Williams. Sikma was an interesting and valuable centre, but Gus was a strong scorer with outstanding speed and pretty fair creation ability (which really only showed itself after Dennis Johnson left). Dennis Johnson was a defensive menace in the Finals, so fine with him getting the Finals MVP, but I think Gus drove a lot of their offence and was more typically their top player. Sad that he has been forgotten; should absolutely be in the Hall of Fame. He was legitimately exciting, too; when Seattle eventually brings back the Sonics, I hope they make an effort to bring him back into public consciousness a bit and let him be appreciated by fans who otherwise have little reason to go digging through Youtube to watch games from a defunct team in an unpopular era.

[falcolombardi]

I wish we had 70'sfan or penbeast thoughts here for this era players

I am really interested in the opinion of peopke who have watched the most actual footage of pre boston dennis johnson, sikma or gus williams

[falcolombardi]

I would go Gus Williams. Sikma was an interesting and valuable centre, but Gus was a strong scorer with outstanding speed and pretty fair creation ability (which really only showed itself after Dennis Johnson left). Dennis Johnson was a defensive menace in the Finals, so fine with him getting the Finals MVP, but I think Gus drove a lot of their offence and was more typically their top player. Sad that he has been forgotten; should absolutely be in the Hall of Fame. He was legitimately exciting, too; when Seattle eventually brings back the Sonics, I hope they make an effort to bring him back into public consciousness a bit and let him be appreciated by fans who otherwise have little reason to go digging through Youtube to watch games from a defunct team in an unpopular era.

How would you describe sikma and gus games like?

[AEnigma]

In 1979 or generally? Tbh, Sikma was a bit non-descript to me in what I have seen from those playoffs. He positioned himself well. Deceptively stout rebounder. Briefly managed to give Kareem trouble in one of their series, but would not call him an amazing man defender. Always knew to make the right pass when the opportunity presented itself, but he became more involved as a post hub later. Had a good shot which he developed as he became more of a second option and then later in his career went the Laimbeer route and started taking threes to help free up space for his slashing teammates.

Gus was fast and crafty. John Wall vibes to an extent (not that fast, but for his era he stood out). Pushed pace, and had a good eye in passing lanes which helped him create transition opportunities. Example:

Watch on YouTube

Had a decent midrange shot, although it was streaky (basically unstoppable when it was on though, and it had a knack for being on in the playoffs). Smart passer, but in 1979 the offence was very egalitarian. Dennis Johnson shared ballhandling duties, and John Johnson was the guy they used as their passing hub (think very proto-Draymond; not a dangerous scoring threat, but good instincts freed up Gus and DJ a bit). I am not sure that was Gus’s preference, but it obviously worked for them, and then Gus got the keys to the offence shortly after anyway.

[falcolombardi]

For people who are more knowledgwable on this team

Who would you say are roughly impact equivalents for their top players? (gus,dennis, sikma, fred, silas)

[Jaivl]

Gus, and I don't think it's that close.

For people who are more knowledgwable on this team

Who would you say are roughly impact equivalents for their top players? (gus,dennis, sikma, fred, silas)

I have peak Gus as a strong all-NBA guy (+3.5), DJ and Sikma (whose peaks are later, mind you) at the all-star level (+2.5ish), can't really rate the others.

[kcktiny]

That Sonics team was best in the league defensively (98.9 pts/100poss allowed) in 1978-79 (and 1979-80). They allowed the lowest 2pt FG%, but despite Williams' steals they did not force a lot of turnovers. They were the 3rd best rebounding team in the league percentage-wise.

D.J./Gus was likely the league's best defensive backcourt, and they were also one of the league's best high scoring backcourts on a nightly basis.

But as a team they were not even average that season offensively. They shot the 3rd lowest 2pt FG% in the league.

Shelton was an excellent defender but not a defensive rebounder. Sikma was their key defensive rebounder and a good but not great defender.

Despite that great backcourt they did not run much. They had the 6th slowest game pace in the league. J.J was their steady hand on offense, the offensive often originated through him.

Their defense in the playoffs was really good and they were the best rebounding team in the playoffs percentage-wise.

But those playoffs that backcourt really bumped up their scoring - Gus was at 26.6 pts/g and D.J was at 20.9 pts/g. No other Sonic scored even 15 pts/g in the playoffs.

Who was their best player? Not sure - but that backcourt of Dennis Johnson and Gus Williams I think was one of the greatest ever, both in 1978-79 and 1979-80.

Over the 3 seasons of 1977-78 to 1979-80 Seattle was both the league's best defensive team and best rebounding team in the regular season.

[penbeast0]

Pretty close as all three played well both ways. I have it as Gus was the best, though with 3 of their best players all playing guard, Sikma may have been their most valuable.

Gus was an attacking scorer, very aggressive, and the most efficient scorer of the three. DJ was the most athletic, still very raw offensively without great range or finishing ability but making things work with his physical ability. Sikma was a bit undersized for a center, more a power forward though they played him at both. Tended to be ground bound relative to most bigs of his size with good range and passing instincts; shot the ball from way back behind his ear which made his shot difficult to block.

They had been starting Tommy LaGarde at center though he'd split time but he went down with an injury so Lonnie Shelton was moved into the 4 and Sikma shifted to 5 with aging defensive banger Paul Silas picking up the extra minutes. Freddie Brown was instant offense with decent passing instincts to go along with his long range (for the era) two ball. John Johnson was the steady, smart veteran who actually led the team in assists, his backup was Wally Walker who was a ladies favorite and played defense but had no real NBA offensive game (in the playoffs, Walker was squeezed out of the rotation).

Really a team defensive effort, their offense wasn't very exciting but they played together well and shared responsiblities on both ends. As someone said above, they really tightened their rotation for the playoffs. Lenny Wilkens' best coaching job and they had been in the finals the previous year as well, facing the same Washington team.

[ronnymac2]

That was a young core of guys when they won in 1979. I always forget that Seattle actually eliminated KAJ's Lakers 4-1 that postseason and then got better in 1980. Young core matures and has a Finals win, 56 wins in the REG SEA, and #3 SRS at 4.24 which was higher than the previous two Finals appearance seasons. Yet with Magic, Wilkes, and Nixon by his side, KAJ led the Lakers past the defending champs in the 1980 WCFs. That's all she wrote for that budding rivalry unfortunately.

Sikma was still young and inconsistent, though interestingly enough, he was the only one of the trio with MVP shares that season. DJ was All-Defense first team and like Sikma, was an All-Star. Williams basically had no accolades that year.

Amazing defense and rebounding. Dynamic offensive guard who sublimated his game but could amp it up come playoff time. Great two-way guard with a winner's mentality. Jump-shooting big with D and rebounding. Sounds like Seattle was a nicer version of the Detroit team that would come 10 years later. Not a perfect comparison as this team is very young and their players were at different stages of their careers compared to the Bad Boys. But close enough.

I'd probably go Williams or Johnson. Williams dropped 30 PPG on the Lakers in the playoffs and overall amped up his offense in the postseason, which makes me respect him even more that he shared the ball in the REG SEA. DJ's defense was phenomenal already and he was probably the best defender on a top-tier defensive squad.

[AEnigma]

For people who are more knowledgwable on this team

Who would you say are roughly impact equivalents for their top players? (gus,dennis, sikma, fred, silas)

DJ: Jrue Holiday the easiest comparison relative to his era (not the same level of passing).

Gus: Uhhhhh tough one. Not really an existing high impact archetype anymore. Denver-era Iverson? Probably the closest I can get, although honestly I prefer Gus.

(Sidenote: True that Gus did not make the all-star game in their title year. Tough to do that playing his minutes — which is a fair way to argue he was less valuable to his team that regular season than DJ or Sikma, but is not inherently tied to whether he was the “best” when he was on the court. The next year he played more minutes but otherwise did very little differently, and suddenly he was all-NBA.)

Sikma: Charlotte-era Vlade Divac?

Shelton: some odd mix of Jarred Vanderbilt and younger PJ Tucker.

John Johnson: 2013 Draymond idk

Freddie Brown: 2019 Dennis Schröder

Paul Silas: what the Lakers thought they would get when they signed old Luol Deng

[TrueLAfan]

The strength of the team was that those top three players were both good and multifaceted. DJ was a lead guard who was just coming into his own in 78-79—he would peak with Phoenix. He had PG and SG skills but his strength was D. Really, he was willing to do what was necessary to win—a trait not all players had then, or now. A pretty good comp for him today would be Jrue Holiday.

Gus was probably the best player on the team--Sikma and DJ were just beginning, or were about to enter their primes. The Gus Williams/peak John Wall comparison is a good one, although Wall was probably a hair better. Like Wall (well, early Wall), Gus was amazingly quick—he had a great first step. And his passing abilities were very good—maybe not as good as Wall, but very, very good. But he was a scorer more than anything else, and his ability to play both 1 and 2 complemented DJ. They were a terrific backcourt duo.

It’s hard to imagine Sikma then because he was an anomaly when he played then and would flourish much more today. Offensively, he was a high post player that had legit 3 point range … except nobody took threes back then. (Hell, they were still illegal in 1979!) And he was also a very good passer from up there. Even then, his ability to draw players with great low post defensive skills out was extraordinarily valuable. Moses Malone struggled defending Sikma. Kareem came out, grudgingly, to deal with him. Sikma also had this odd shot—his release point was super far back, so his jumper was almost unblockable. Defensively, he had short arms but very quick feet and hands and was a great positional player. This made him a very good defender, and the best defensive rebounder of his era. If Vucevic was better on that end, he’d be a good comp for Sikma.

So…an equal or slightly lesser version of John Wall, a better defending Vuke, and JRue. Who’s the most valuable player there?

[penbeast0]

I don't really see the Wall comp for Gus, Wall's strength was his playmaking, his weakness was his shooting efficiency. I'd say more Kyrie Irving, mainly a scorer but has playmaking skills when not in a Kobe style heat check mode. The opposite is true for DJ v. Jrue, Jrue is an efficient scorer at least the last couple of years where DJ was not at this point. I'd say young Andre Iguodala type. For Sikma, though he was young, I'd say Al Horford with his defense, range, passing, and limited athleticism.

[AEnigma]

Weird substitutions and reasonings for the substitutions. Horford is pretty athletic and just functionally different as a defender. Not the same type of rebounder either. I guess current Horford probably compares abstractly for impact, but when you take issue with Jrue Holiday because he has been a mildly efficient regular season scorer in Milwaukee, and with Wall because he was not as efficient as Kyrie (????), team impact does not seem to be much of the focus.

Gus was not an especially efficient scorer either (which is why I decided to go with Iverson — you probably tried to stick with active players), but what he did do was raise his efficiency in the postseason. My comparison with Wall was primarily physical, so perhaps Baron Davis is the actual best comparison, or at least is the comparison for his 1982/83 self (with Dennis and John Johnson gone), but in 1979 yes he was more of an offball scoring guard than he would be later. If we want to focus on that iteration while only using active players, younger Donovan Mitchell might be the name to cite, but then I start to feel as if the comparison is getting disrespectful.

[70sFan]

I would probably take Williams overall, but I can see a strong case for Sikma as well (who became a better player with time). DJ was a key factor for winning the 1979 title, but I don't think he was the best on either side of the floor (though his defense was enormous).

This team was extremely underrated as a whole though. They had another excellent starter in Shelton (great two way combo forward), elite microwave scorer off the bench (Downtown Brown) and ultimate veteran roleplayer in Silas. I'd argue they were comparable to Bad Boy Pistons teams from the decade later, both in terms of talent and roster structure. Such a shame that DJ-Westphal trade didn't go well with Paul's injury, Sonics could be a legit threat for the Lakers in the early 1980s.

[homecourtloss]

I wish we had 70'sfan or penbeast thoughts here for this era players

I am really interested in the opinion of peopke who have watched the most actual footage of pre boston dennis johnson, sikma or gus williams

There was some discussion about the ‘79 Sonics (and ‘78 Sonics) in some of Sansterre’s “Best team of the ‘70s” project with some good insights from Penbeast and 70sFan

A little about the ‘79 Sonics here https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=64&t=2125550

Some more about the ‘78 Sonics:

https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=64&t=2123216

[penbeast0]

Damn, now I hope I was consistent, lol.