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Political Roundtable Part XXXI

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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXXI 

Post#641 » by pancakes3 » Fri Aug 12, 2022 12:08 am

popper wrote:
payitforward wrote:
popper wrote:...What's your solution to the border crisis?

"Crisis" is a negative evaluative term, popper; it's not a descriptive term.

Can you say what you think needs to change and why it needs to change -- without using any evaluative terms?

I.e. no words like "crisis," "enormous," "illegal," "disastrous," "unfair," etc.

What is happening & no more. The actual events/conditions that you have in mind under the word "crisis."

The term "solution" is also an evaluative term, btw, a positive one -- in the sense that it requires there to be a negative in place. & it prejudges positively whatever actions it is calling a "solution."

Are you aware of any situations, here or anywhere, now or in the past, in which the word "solution" was used as a replacement for descriptive words -- words describing actions that very few people would have been willing to accept?

I rarely check in here, but I'll come back a bunch of times in hope of a response from you.


It seems to me that current border policy has a hefty cost associated with it.
I read there were 600+ bodies found on the border so far this year. Who knows how many more were found 10 to 50 miles north or south of the border. I've read that thousands of women and girls are sexually assaulted on their way to the border. I read that 50 migrants perished in the back of an abandoned truck in south Texas this year. I've read about those who drown, sometimes with their children, trying to swim the Rio Grande. I've read that the cartels and other human traffickers are making hundreds of millions facilitating this migration. I've read that Fentanyl finding it's way across the border is causing the death of thousands of people. It seems to me that our current border policies might somehow be facilitating the aforementioned outcomes. Not sure but I think there must be a better way of handling the situation.


If you're saying that the border crisis is the danger that immigration poses for immigrants, then yes, I'm there with you. But if you understand that, then I don't understand how you can support Republican immigration policies.

You don't have to be an expert to see that the only reason immigration is "illegal" (and consequently dangerous) is because of the laws. If immigration were legal, then it would be no more dangerous for a migrant family to cross borders than it would be for the rest of us. The only reason that people are undocumented is that the government refuses to document them.

A country where everyone who wants to immigrate is documented and accounted for - that's what open borders looks like. Then immigrants don't have to come through with contraband.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXXI 

Post#642 » by Pointgod » Fri Aug 12, 2022 12:15 am

Zonkerbl wrote:ARGH

Read on Twitter
?t=I9qRrAsJUo6pC4f809HrPA&s=19

Read on Twitter
?t=jq-38Z1dtQOQB8-M4UhScw&s=19

Read on Twitter
?t=CBI224wo8_2lqlVU4BMktg&s=19


Congrats Republicans. You’re the party of terrorists.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXXI 

Post#643 » by Wizardspride » Fri Aug 12, 2022 12:44 am

Read on Twitter
?t=NXS8EGbaZnPvLkUAfN-xFg&s=19

President Donald Trump referred to African countries, Haiti and El Salvador as "shithole" nations during a meeting Thursday and asked why the U.S. can't have more immigrants from Norway.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXXI 

Post#644 » by Pointgod » Fri Aug 12, 2022 12:59 am

Wizardspride wrote:
Read on Twitter
?t=NXS8EGbaZnPvLkUAfN-xFg&s=19


This **** is unhinged. Was he going to sell these documents or blackmail people? The right wing is going to look like **** idiots as always when the truth comes out.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXXI 

Post#645 » by Pointgod » Fri Aug 12, 2022 1:03 am

Wizardspride wrote:
Read on Twitter
?t=NXS8EGbaZnPvLkUAfN-xFg&s=19


Read on Twitter
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXXI 

Post#646 » by doclinkin » Fri Aug 12, 2022 1:24 am

Pointgod wrote:This **** is unhinged. Was he going to sell these documents or blackmail people? The right wing is going to look like **** idiots as always when the truth comes out.


FALSE FLAG CRISIS ACTORS THE FBI PLANTED THOSE DOCUMENTS FAKE NEWS TO COVER UP THAT JEFFREY EPSTEIN'S PERSONAL JUDGE AUTHORIZED THE RAID TO DISTRACT FROM VAMPIRIC PEDOPHILES IN OFFICE WE DECLARE CIVIL WAR!!!!!!111!1!!!
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXXI 

Post#647 » by Zonkerbl » Fri Aug 12, 2022 1:27 am

Some of the docs were NUCLEAR SECRETS???
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXXI 

Post#648 » by doclinkin » Fri Aug 12, 2022 1:37 am

It was a pretty badass move to appoint Merrick Garland as the head of DOJ after they unethically blocked his appointment to join the Supremes. He was a middle of the road law and order sort of guy as a judge, but here in this seat being a stickler for the law makes him a significant danger to the lawless political saboteurs running the GOP nowadays. How many movies have we seen where the one moral cop takes down the corruptors one by one. Careful, methodical, and unswayed by fear. Protect that man. Hope he is able to finish the job and return law to this town.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXXI 

Post#649 » by Zonkerbl » Fri Aug 12, 2022 1:49 am

Read on Twitter
?t=17F_qb7oGWWti01keiLEnA&s=19

Read on Twitter
?t=0loiEs1h1CFQZB_ySl4Rog&s=19
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXXI 

Post#650 » by pancakes3 » Fri Aug 12, 2022 2:27 am

the thing about orange man bad, is that the orange man is in fact, bad.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXXI 

Post#651 » by Zonkerbl » Fri Aug 12, 2022 2:32 am

Read on Twitter
?t=zmT8Jc1awl41VkyZ34EIeA&s=19

Read on Twitter
?t=-JPtCnkKprcqexc3bALxlA&s=19
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXXI 

Post#652 » by dobrojim » Fri Aug 12, 2022 3:37 am

dckingsfan wrote:One also has to look at the numbers dying in the home country against those that make the journey. Only when you do a detailed analysis can you understand the cost/benefits to the potential immigrant. Otherwise it is all just anecdotal information. If you compare those numbers to the 45K gun deaths - it isn't that big. Or if you looked at the lifespan of a citizen in that particular country compared to the US...

One should note that lots of illegal arms are crossing our borders south - a partial cause the situation. Our demand for drugs is also part of the cause of the situation. Our being the leader of dumping CO2 into the atmosphere warming the climate (and contributing to hurricanes & torrential rains) is also part of the cause of the situation. Our contributing to the destabilization of many Central American Countries is also part of the cause of the situation. Our active employment by business of those immigrants is a large cause of the problem.

And then we move onto one last problem we have... those that make the journey are a small part of our illegal immigration "problem that isn't". Most fly here on a visa and then just never leave. It is only those without the means that come via a caravan.

I am waiting on the Rs to come down "hard" on businesses that use illegal immigrant labor... pretty much never going to happen. Those same farmers are their hardcore constituents.


People who arrive legally and overstay their visas = biggest group of “illegals”.
If we are serious about this as a problem, shouldn’t we start there?
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXXI 

Post#653 » by dobrojim » Fri Aug 12, 2022 3:40 am

Pointgod wrote:
Zonkerbl wrote:ARGH

Read on Twitter
?t=I9qRrAsJUo6pC4f809HrPA&s=19

Read on Twitter
?t=jq-38Z1dtQOQB8-M4UhScw&s=19

Read on Twitter
?t=CBI224wo8_2lqlVU4BMktg&s=19


Congrats Republicans. You’re the party of terrorists.


We need more folks to understand what is meant by the term, stochastic terrorism.
A lot of what we call 'thought' is just mental activity

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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXXI 

Post#654 » by dobrojim » Fri Aug 12, 2022 3:45 am

Pointgod wrote:
Wizardspride wrote:
Read on Twitter
?t=NXS8EGbaZnPvLkUAfN-xFg&s=19


This **** is unhinged. Was he going to sell these documents or blackmail people? The right wing is going to look like **** idiots as always when the truth comes out.


By then, no one will admit what they said or did last week. That’s old
news. They’ll be too overamped by the latest faux news scandal.

Video doesn’t exist. Nothing is true.
A lot of what we call 'thought' is just mental activity

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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXXI 

Post#655 » by JWizmentality » Fri Aug 12, 2022 3:56 am

doclinkin wrote:It was a pretty badass move to appoint Merrick Garland as the head of DOJ after they unethically blocked his appointment to join the Supremes. He was a middle of the road law and order sort of guy as a judge, but here in this seat being a stickler for the law makes him a significant danger to the lawless political saboteurs running the GOP nowadays. How many movies have we seen where the one moral cop takes down the corruptors one by one. Careful, methodical, and unswayed by fear. Protect that man. Hope he is able to finish the job and return law to this town.


Karma never forgets.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXXI 

Post#656 » by Zonkerbl » Fri Aug 12, 2022 9:54 am

Read on Twitter
?t=q67oHRpKZV1XfJkFn4GdmQ&s=19
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXXI 

Post#657 » by Zonkerbl » Fri Aug 12, 2022 10:00 am

Zonkerbl wrote:
Read on Twitter
?t=17F_qb7oGWWti01keiLEnA&s=19

Read on Twitter
?t=0loiEs1h1CFQZB_ySl4Rog&s=19


So some types of nuclear secrets cannot be declassified. Although some folks have pointed out that these specific docs - instructions on how to build nuclear weapons- the POTUS just wouldn't have - he has no need to know. Well, we'll see - if the potus gives you an order, you obey it.

Ugh, I thought this was funny and sad, but if the Republicans blocked us from impeaching a guy who was selling our nuclear secrets I will be livid. Shame on all of them. I just hope it somehow turns out not to be true. Because aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXXI 

Post#658 » by Zonkerbl » Fri Aug 12, 2022 1:14 pm

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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXXI 

Post#659 » by pancakes3 » Fri Aug 12, 2022 2:03 pm

dobrojim wrote:
dckingsfan wrote:One also has to look at the numbers dying in the home country against those that make the journey. Only when you do a detailed analysis can you understand the cost/benefits to the potential immigrant. Otherwise it is all just anecdotal information. If you compare those numbers to the 45K gun deaths - it isn't that big. Or if you looked at the lifespan of a citizen in that particular country compared to the US...

One should note that lots of illegal arms are crossing our borders south - a partial cause the situation. Our demand for drugs is also part of the cause of the situation. Our being the leader of dumping CO2 into the atmosphere warming the climate (and contributing to hurricanes & torrential rains) is also part of the cause of the situation. Our contributing to the destabilization of many Central American Countries is also part of the cause of the situation. Our active employment by business of those immigrants is a large cause of the problem.

And then we move onto one last problem we have... those that make the journey are a small part of our illegal immigration "problem that isn't". Most fly here on a visa and then just never leave. It is only those without the means that come via a caravan.

I am waiting on the Rs to come down "hard" on businesses that use illegal immigrant labor... pretty much never going to happen. Those same farmers are their hardcore constituents.


People who arrive legally and overstay their visas = biggest group of “illegals”.
If we are serious about this as a problem, shouldn’t we start there?


It's so important for the discussion re: immigration to be excised from the discussion about gun/drug-running. You can't lump in people with commodities. Not only is it dehumanizing on a facial level, regulating people and things require drastically different policies. And yet Republicans and Democrats alike keep disregarding this distinction and lump it all into "border security" which is BS.

We need to have an immigration policy and a customs policy. That's it. Despite its name, the current incarnation of ICE doesn't fit into either.

Re: immigration, ICE doesn't need to carry guns, they need to carry pens. They need to document. They need to process paperwork. They need to facilitate settlement/location. They need to facilitate job placement. They need to provide social services. What they don't need to do is kick of water jugs, tear children from their parents, or kill people.

Re: customs, they need to worry about importers dodging tariffs, unauthorized black market imports, inspect shipped goods for proper FDA/FTC licensing, etc.

It's facially racist because all the ICE news comes from the Southern border, and not at ports, or the northern border. It's a manufactured "war" that distracts from real issues, and it's costing taxpayers billions every year. Trump built a wall with the manufactured outrage, when we could have had drones patrolling the border. We had ICE agents tearing children from parents when they could be at the ports, checking for Chinese fentynol (where it actually comes from). We're worried about gun runners from the South when the US is manufacturing guns domestically way more than anything else (and refuses to have meaningful gun reform).
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXXI 

Post#660 » by dckingsfan » Fri Aug 12, 2022 4:12 pm

And really, there is no need to have a conversation about how to fix immigration when one party doesn't want it fixed.

Simply put, any discussion on immigration works for them politically.

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