Who do you rank higher between george mikan and bob pettit?

[Gibson22]

On the one hand george mikan was the more dominant player, winning more rings and being measurably more impactful, but on the other hand pettit played in a far better league (being drafted only 2 years before russell and 5 years before wilt), where black players were allowed since 5 years before his draft, the shot clock had just been introduced, etc, and he also played longer than mikan.
So, who do you consider better?

[penbeast0]

Mikan pretty easily. I love Pettit but to be in the Mikan category, he would either have to have been a bit more. Either a defensive standout and while he was apparently a hard working guy on that end, he wasn't a guy you built your defense around. Or a playoff standout who picked up his game in the playoffs but, while he did have the one ATG 4th quarter closeout of the Celtics the year Russell got hurt where he picked up his team and did one of the great carry jobs in history, otherwise his playoff showings showed a typical or larger drop off from his regular season numbers; it was his teammate Cliff Hagan who tended to pick up the Hawks in the playoffs.

Mikan's level of dominance would put him in the conversation for GOAT or at least top 5 if you didn't discount for era differences.

[CharityStripe34]

Mikan has the more impressive resume as being the league's first superstar and dominant player.

Pettit, though, has one of the ATG resumes as well, leading the Hawks to being a contender and Finals winner, the 2 MVPs and basically being All-NBA first team for a decade.

[HeartBreakKid]

Bob.

The sport was still in its frontier years when George was dominating. His impact went down a lot very quickly in a few years, sometimes people talk like he had 20 years of dominance.

Bob was more impressive to me. He was probably the best player at one point albeit for a brief period, and stayed near the top for a long time, even against another generation of players he was still great.

[wojoaderge]

I have Mikan at #9 and Pettit at #19 all-time

[falcolombardi]

Mikan

[Owly]

Bob.

The sport was still in its frontier years when George was dominating. His impact went down a lot very quickly in a few years, sometimes people talk like he had 20 years of dominance.

Bob was more impressive to me. He was probably the best player at one point albeit for a brief period, and stayed near the top for a long time, even against another generation of players he was still great.

Some thoughts:
1) Are we able speak to his impact, rather than his box numbers?
2) Even after going down aren't his box numbers still very strong and holding up in the playoffs?
3) Isn't the limited info on his impact, via his return that even with box severely diminished and on a team with a strong (2nd team All-NBA that year, HoF as a player) productive center Clyde Lovellette and playing in a limited role, that there was a correlation with a significant lift in fortunes? I don't recall the details (or how detailed the look was) but this was certainly my impression (one running counter to some earlier but non-contemporary narratives that it was akin to a Cousy or Cowens comeback)?
Those would be my questions. Not to take a stand on OP's question.

[SickMother]

Rank Mikan slightly higher based on dominance of era/historical impact.

Would pick Pettit over him for my team though because I think he has a more well rounded/modern game.

[SinceGatlingWasARookie]

Mikan.

[Cavsfansince84]

I think I have Mikan about 5 spots higher. Like 20 to 25.

[trelos6]

If you are looking at how they dominated their era, Mikan wins.

If you want to plug them into the modern game and see who has the higher portability, Pettit wins.

So I guess the answer is Mikan.

[Cavsfansince84]

If you are looking at how they dominated their era, Mikan wins.

If you want to plug them into the modern game and see who has the higher portability, Pettit wins.

So I guess the answer is Mikan.

Very difficult to try and make that projection accurately imo.

[SickMother]

If you are looking at how they dominated their era, Mikan wins.

If you want to plug them into the modern game and see who has the higher portability, Pettit wins.

So I guess the answer is Mikan.

Very difficult to try and make that projection accurately imo.

From Mikan's first NBA season in 49/50 to his last Championship season in 53/54, league FG% rose from .340 to .372.

From Pettit's first season in 54/55 to his last season in 64/65 (eleven straight All NBA selections for Bob), league FG% rose from .385 to .426, peaking as high as .441 in 62/63.

Pettit excelled for twice as long against notably better competition. By all accounts Bob was more athletic and had a more varied offensive game which included being one of the first big men to shoot from distance.

What factors might give Mikan a more favorable projection to more contemporary contexts?

[Cavsfansince84]

From Mikan's first NBA season in 49/50 to his last Championship season in 53/54, league FG% rose from .340 to .372.

From Pettit's first season in 54/55 to his last season in 64/65 (eleven straight All NBA selections for Bob), league FG% rose from .385 to .426, peaking as high as .441 in 62/63.

Pettit excelled for twice as long against notably better competition. By all accounts Bob was more athletic and had a more varied offensive game which included being one of the first big men to shoot from distance.

What factors might give Mikan a more favorable projection to more contemporary contexts?

Mikan was the best defender of his era afaik and I think its fair to say that there was a lot of progress made in terms of coaching and whatnot from the 40's to the 50's. I'm not sure if we're talking taking them directly from their era and putting them in today's game or letting them develop today either. I think it would be more fair to do the latter. Mikan was such a pioneer in many ways.

[frica]

The better players of Mikan's era still tended to do well in the 60s, and Mikan was head and shoulders above them.
I don't think it's unreasonable to think that Mikan would be at least the 3rd best center in the 60s.
This is clearly Mikan imo.

[Owly]

If you are looking at how they dominated their era, Mikan wins.

If you want to plug them into the modern game and see who has the higher portability, Pettit wins.

So I guess the answer is Mikan.

Very difficult to try and make that projection accurately imo.

From Mikan's first NBA season in 49/50 to his last Championship season in 53/54, league FG% rose from .340 to .372.

From Pettit's first season in 54/55 to his last season in 64/65 (eleven straight All NBA selections for Bob), league FG% rose from .385 to .426, peaking as high as .441 in 62/63.

Pettit excelled for twice as long against notably better competition. By all accounts Bob was more athletic and had a more varied offensive game which included being one of the first big men to shoot from distance.

What factors might give Mikan a more favorable projection to more contemporary contexts?

Twice as long ...
Pettit is an 11 year pro.
So this relies on Mikan as 5.5 or fewer years.
Even counting BAA/NBA only and discounting his comeback (the latter of which fair enough for "excelled") ... Mikan plays 6 all elite RS and playoff ('51 playoffs likely down due to injury though still scoring efficiently).
But that would be seriously mean accounting.
Mikan plays the full year in '48 is probably the best player in the world playing in the best league in the world and the Lakers win.
In '47 he plays a partial year is dominant, impactful and the team ends up winning the title with him for the Gears.
Then even in '46 still really a college year he gets out in time to play in the World Tournament and is tournament MVP.

Shorting Mikan '47 and '48 (in the then better league) seems rough. If you count them (and don't do partial discount on the contract issue) we're at 8 to eleven.

One could quibble at the margins then, but "twice as long" seems quite an exaggeration.

[SickMother]

Very difficult to try and make that projection accurately imo.

From Mikan's first NBA season in 49/50 to his last Championship season in 53/54, league FG% rose from .340 to .372.

From Pettit's first season in 54/55 to his last season in 64/65 (eleven straight All NBA selections for Bob), league FG% rose from .385 to .426, peaking as high as .441 in 62/63.

Pettit excelled for twice as long against notably better competition. By all accounts Bob was more athletic and had a more varied offensive game which included being one of the first big men to shoot from distance.

What factors might give Mikan a more favorable projection to more contemporary contexts?

Twice as long ...
Pettit is an 11 year pro.
So this relies on Mikan as 5.5 or fewer years.
Even counting BAA/NBA only and discounting his comeback (the latter of which fair enough for "excelled") ... Mikan plays 6 all elite RS and playoff ('51 playoffs likely down due to injury though still scoring efficiently).
But that would be seriously mean accounting.
Mikan plays the full year in '48 is probably the best player in the world playing in the best league in the world and the Lakers win.
In '47 he plays a partial year is dominant, impactful and the team ends up winning the title with him for the Gears.
Then even in '46 still really a college year he gets out in time to play in the World Tournament and is tournament MVP.

Shorting Mikan '47 and '48 (in the then better league) seems rough. If you count them (and don't do partial discount on the contract issue) we're at 8 to eleven.

One could quibble at the margins then, but "twice as long" seems quite an exaggeration.

Yeah, BBRef only has Mikan stats for six seasons so that is what I was going off of. Eleven All NBA seasons for Pettit vs six for Mikan. League average FG% for the 48/49 BAA was .327, presumably anything pre-1948 would be an even lower level of competition that George was facing.

Using the limited data at BBRef, it looks like Mikan had three dominant seasons posting 65.4 Win Shares & 967 TS Add from 48/49 to 50/51, then dropping down to 41.7 Win Shares & 241 TS Add from 51/52 to 53/54 as he got older & competition improved with guys like Paul Azirin, Neil Johnston, Dolph Schayes and Ed Macauley posting higher seasonal Win Share totals over those last three seasons.

[Owly]

From Mikan's first NBA season in 49/50 to his last Championship season in 53/54, league FG% rose from .340 to .372.

From Pettit's first season in 54/55 to his last season in 64/65 (eleven straight All NBA selections for Bob), league FG% rose from .385 to .426, peaking as high as .441 in 62/63.

Pettit excelled for twice as long against notably better competition. By all accounts Bob was more athletic and had a more varied offensive game which included being one of the first big men to shoot from distance.

What factors might give Mikan a more favorable projection to more contemporary contexts?

Twice as long ...
Pettit is an 11 year pro.
So this relies on Mikan as 5.5 or fewer years.
Even counting BAA/NBA only and discounting his comeback (the latter of which fair enough for "excelled") ... Mikan plays 6 all elite RS and playoff ('51 playoffs likely down due to injury though still scoring efficiently).
But that would be seriously mean accounting.
Mikan plays the full year in '48 is probably the best player in the world playing in the best league in the world and the Lakers win.
In '47 he plays a partial year is dominant, impactful and the team ends up winning the title with him for the Gears.
Then even in '46 still really a college year he gets out in time to play in the World Tournament and is tournament MVP.

Shorting Mikan '47 and '48 (in the then better league) seems rough. If you count them (and don't do partial discount on the contract issue) we're at 8 to eleven.

One could quibble at the margins then, but "twice as long" seems quite an exaggeration.

Yeah, BBRef only has Mikan stats for six seasons so that is what I was going off of. Eleven All NBA seasons for Pettit vs six for Mikan. League average FG% for the 48/49 BAA was .327, presumably anything pre-1948 would be an even lower level of competition that George was facing.

Using the limited data at BBRef, it looks like Mikan had three dominant seasons posting 65.4 Win Shares & 967 TS Add from 48/49 to 50/51, then dropping down to 41.7 Win Shares & 241 TS Add from 51/52 to 53/54 as he got older & competition improved with guys like Paul Azirin, Neil Johnston, Dolph Schayes and Ed Macauley posting higher seasonal Win Share totals over those last three seasons.

Johnston and Easy Ed have some significant red flags on their defense (actually both the Warriors at their production peaks ... also there's talk that the Warriors ... liked having the leader scorer and so leaned into that to some extent (how much, how credible is unclear). Obviously reads here going back are fuzzy ... if one thinks Mikan is a defensive power too ...

Then too as stated Mikan is consistently dominant in the playoffs on deep runs. I don't weigh that as much as many but .. yeah Mikan was the dominant force on a long-term dynasty and has pretty good evidence as the driving force of it (in season arrival on Gears, transitions to Lakers [technically from the ashes of the Gems], they don't win the one year he's hurt ... it's less impressive with the lesser longevity but in the major league era he's the only guy with a case against Russell as the driving force of a "winner" especially if '56 is discounted (unbeaten when healthy, 7/8 a better percentage than 11/13). This is a pretty blunt, crude tool (and honestly personally I wouldn't exclude '56, just as I wouldn't exclude '95) but I am inclined to imagine Mikan as a pretty dominant force. Per above (re: on defense) but more generally obviously older rankings are fuzzier.

League standard is something I'd find it hard to argue knowledgeably on - talent was split even thinner with the dual leagues early on.


But yeah this wasn't meant as taking one side, it's more Pettit isn't really (imo) close to double Mikan's longevity, Mikan's NBL years were dominant and it was seemingly the stronger league (wrt playing standard), so felt that in particular warranted scrutiny.

[AEnigma]

Mikan had no relevance once the shot clock was introduced and played against significantly inferior athletes. He may have been the league’s top defender in that context, but hard to buy that it would maintain the way we know Pettit’s and Schayes’s scoring maintained. If you want to give Mikan the extra legacy points, so be it, but I feel a lot more confident in Pettit in literally any year 1954.

[eminence]

Mikan pretty easily for me, I've got all of his pro seasons that he finished relatively healthy above Pettits peak (so 7 seasons).

Slightly better athlete overall, better feel for the game from the film I've seen, prefer his positioning generally (primarily on defense) and his passing.

Pettits main edge is likely his jumper, which Mikan never really developed and I don't really expect him to have a good one. But even today there's plenty of bigs around the league with no jumper to speak of. Overall I'd give Pettit the small offensive edge (I do think the early key days advantaged Mikan a bit on offense, otherwise relative to competition Mikan probably outperformed Pettit on offense as well), but it doesn't close the large defensive edge for Mikan to me.

'56 is a actually a positive for Mikan in my evaluation for him. Man retired for a year and a half, got his kneecap removed (not replaced), and came back and was a contributing NBA player.