2022-23 English Premier League Discussion Thread

[Baphomet]

Corporate over football?

Man U is still spending right?

Maybe not spending smartly and maybe not the most but still spending?

I think what he means is that the money isn't being spent with any kind of long-term vision. There's no footballing rhyme or reason to Man United's strategy, they buy flavour of the month players to sell shirts and tickets and expand the global brand.

[Shaazzam]

The two places I would accept Masai leaving the Raptors for are PM of Canada and King/Chiarman/CEO of Man Utd.

[Shaazzam]

Corporate over football?

Man U is still spending right?

Maybe not spending smartly and maybe not the most but still spending?

I think what he means is that the money isn't being spent with any kind of long-term vision. There's no footballing rhyme or reason to Man United's strategy, they buy flavour of the month players to sell shirts and tickets and expand the global brand.

Well, TeamViewer just said get stuffed.

[HIF]

Manchester will be making a 120m bid for fofana on monday.

[HIF]

I never doubted that Brentford would win this after watching them play us last week.

[wco81]

Corporate over football?

Man U is still spending right?

Maybe not spending smartly and maybe not the most but still spending?

I think what he means is that the money isn't being spent with any kind of long-term vision. There's no footballing rhyme or reason to Man United's strategy, they buy flavour of the month players to sell shirts and tickets and expand the global brand.

Who are their directors who buy the players?

Did those people change in the last couple of years?

Hard to believe they'd suddenly lose competency. They finished 2nd just two seasons ago and 3rd 3 seasons ago. These were both pandemic seasons or 2019-2020, when they finished 3rd, they'd played most of the season when they suspended play in spring of 2020.

Maybe some key players moved on from just a couple of seasons ago or new managers since then. But presumably the people making the big decisions are still in place?

[wco81]

Is it possible that City sustains their dominance just by hoarding players, just to prevent other teams from acquiring them?

A year ago, Grealish was their big acquisition but maybe by end of this season he and some other recent acquisitions will be forgotten because of Haaland.

And who knows how well Jesus will play all season but they had him parked for 5-6 seasons, just let him walk at age 25 because they acquired a younger, bigger striker this year.

Kind of similar to the way Juventus won all those Serie A titles by continually getting the best players from other league contenders.

[Baphomet]

Who are their directors who buy the players?

Did those people change in the last couple of years?

Hard to believe they'd suddenly lose competency. They finished 2nd just two seasons ago and 3rd 3 seasons ago. These were both pandemic seasons or 2019-2020, when they finished 3rd, they'd played most of the season when they suspended play in spring of 2020.

Maybe some key players moved on from just a couple of seasons ago or new managers since then. But presumably the people making the big decisions are still in place?

Those league finishes belie Man United's true problems. You also have to look at the context of their rivals. They finished 3rd but they were 33 points behind the champions. They finished 2nd but they were 12 points behind the champions.

Man United have needed a true rebuild behind one manager for years, and to develop an actual style of play. Solskjaer was never that guy, he was a board yes man who would put up with whatever hand he was dealt.

As it stands, they have bits and bobs of previous regimes, very few of whom suit the kind of football Ten Hag wants to play, and that's been the story since Ferguson left: Unwillingness to commit to a rebuild.

[LDNMagic90]

Who are their directors who buy the players?

Did those people change in the last couple of years?

Hard to believe they'd suddenly lose competency. They finished 2nd just two seasons ago and 3rd 3 seasons ago. These were both pandemic seasons or 2019-2020, when they finished 3rd, they'd played most of the season when they suspended play in spring of 2020.

Maybe some key players moved on from just a couple of seasons ago or new managers since then. But presumably the people making the big decisions are still in place?

Those league finishes belie Man United's true problems. You also have to look at the context of their rivals. They finished 3rd but they were 33 points behind the champions. They finished 2nd but they were 12 points behind the champions.

Man United have needed a true rebuild behind one manager for years, and to develop an actual style of play. Solskjaer was never that guy, he was a board yes man who would put up with whatever hand he was dealt.

As it stands, they have bits and bobs of previous regimes, very few of whom suit the kind of football Ten Hag wants to play, and that's been the story since Ferguson left: Unwillingness to commit to a rebuild.

I will forever die on this hill but United should never sacked Mourinho. He did wonders with that squad but became the fall guy. When nobody saw it he said Luke Shaw was a liability and fast forward to present day everyone says that about him.

[wco81]

I'm not even sure what a rebuilt in European football is, especially a big club with huge revenues and a global brand.

There isn't any draft, it's a free for all for signing top prospects from South America.

There are no free agents in the NBA (or other US team sports) sense of the term. Teams can sign almost any great player, if they're willing to pay.

Since there are no restrictions of any kind, a team with deep pockets can spend what it likes to re-make the team.

After Ferguson, the only "name" manager they've had is Mourinho? What about people like Conte, giving someone like that a few seasons to "rebuild" the team or get enough of the types of players he would want?

[LDNMagic90]

I'm not even sure what a rebuilt in European football is, especially a big club with huge revenues and a global brand.

There isn't any draft, it's a free for all for signing top prospects from South America.

There are no free agents in the NBA (or other US team sports) sense of the term. Teams can sign almost any great player, if they're willing to pay.

Since there are no restrictions of any kind, a team with deep pockets can spend what it likes to re-make the team.

After Ferguson, the only "name" manager they've had is Mourinho? What about people like Conte, giving someone like that a few seasons to "rebuild" the team or get enough of the types of players he would want?

Rebuilds in football is just a case of finding a manager with a director of football that share the same philosophy and can execute it successfully. Arsenal for example right now are coming towards the end of their rebuild, just like in the NBA etc teams will hit rough patches during a rebuild but so long as you maintain a vision you should be ok.

United need 5 seasons id say and that’s just to be able to compete for 3rd/4th in my opinion. They need to find the right players if they are supporting ten Haag. I still don’t think they have a director of football to help oversee everything and that’s where the problem lies for the most part.

Ralf got crucified for saying this at the time but he was right, United need open heart surgery and about 10 new players at the minimum for them to be a serious team again.

[LDNMagic90]

Also huge credit to Thomas Frank and Brentford, the way Brentford have been operating for the last 5 years has been amazing. They have a good system in place where they could lose a top player and not look lost at all.

[Baphomet]

I'm not even sure what a rebuilt in European football is, especially a big club with huge revenues and a global brand.

There isn't any draft, it's a free for all for signing top prospects from South America.

There are no free agents in the NBA (or other US team sports) sense of the term. Teams can sign almost any great player, if they're willing to pay.

Since there are no restrictions of any kind, a team with deep pockets can spend what it likes to re-make the team.

After Ferguson, the only "name" manager they've had is Mourinho? What about people like Conte, giving someone like that a few seasons to "rebuild" the team or get enough of the types of players he would want?

A rebuild is exactly the same as it is in any other sport, I don't understand the confusion. Simplifying slightly, but you hire a manager and commit to a vision, whether that be a counter press, tiki-taka, long ball, whatever that may be. Then you target and buy players that fit that philosophy and replace those that don't. The method is unimportant.

Take a look at Liverpool's acquisitions since Klopp took over: https://www.lfchistory.net/Transfers/ByManager/28/1

Note how just about every single player is suited to a counter press, and the positional fluidity of the forwards. They essentially rebuilt the club in Klopp's image, after nearly 30 years of inadequacy in the league, and reaped the rewards. Remember that Liverpool finished 9th in their first season under Klopp, but still forged on.

There are short-termist managers like Mourinho, and they can succeed with the right backing, but Man United don't need short-term fixes or any more paper over cracks. They have been absolutely pathetic in the transfer market, there's no glossing over it. Targeting the wrong players, bad fits, drastically overpaying for mediocrity, and being unwilling to move on from players that need to leave. It's been shambolic.

[wco81]

What I'm saying is, without things like draft or salary cap, why does a club with huge resources need several years?

Liverpool turned it around like the start of the next season after Klopp took over.

Maybe the only reason to wait a season or seasons to acquire some players is some players are out of contract in a year or two or their club wants too much for a transfer.

Does United even need to clear bad contracts like an NBA team if it really wanted to add like 5 expensive players in January? It might not be financially wise but they have the wherewithal to do it?

I'm watching the documentary series on Arsenal's last season. They wanted to get rid of Aubameyang back in January before they'd consider acquiring other players. But Edu Gaspar said the best thing for the club financially would be to re-integrate him into the club because his contract ran through this 2022-23 season.

They don't show further discussions but apparently Arteta insisted Aubameyang couldn't come back and Barca came through at the last minute, right before the end of the transfer window, to sign him.

Yet they didn't replace him so they were struggling to score goals around that time and they said they were down several players from the start of the season and didn't bring in replacements.

So there are no minimum roster levels or a salary cap. Arsenal decided not to spend in January but obviously spent in the summer.

If the situation is desperate enough, United could make wholesale changes or try to do it incrementally, turning over the roster over several seasons.

[LDNMagic90]

You need to be able to register 25 players in football, you can get around that by having good under 21 players because they don’t need to be registered. Arsenal got rid of Auba because he didn’t fit the vision of what Arteta wanted. As Baph said you commit to a vision and buy said players for that vision which United haven’t done. It doesn’t matter how much money you have if you don’t have a vision, the premier league is the most unforgiving sports league in the world in my opinion. That’s why if you are a team that has no plan and you just coast or even spend without a clear direction you’ll be f*cked.

Klopp didn’t hit the ground running as Baph pointed out, but they stuck by him. The most famous example funny enough is Alex Ferguson with United, he almost got sacked that’s how bad he was at first but he trusted his vision and that was integrating the class of 92 with other players that complimented them.

[Cactus Jack]

What I'm saying is, without things like draft or salary cap, why does a club with huge resources need several years?

Liverpool turned it around like the start of the next season after Klopp took over.

It took Pool a couple of years to get things going under Klopp. Mostly because they hit on several signings. Salah, Mane, Van Dijk, etc. Signing Alisson was the cherry on top.

United are still a mess because they've done a poor job on the transfer market. Hiring & then firing managers along the way.

[The_Brecht]

Loving life as an Arsenal fan at the moment.
This is the best I've seen them play for a long long time!

[wco81]

First EPL goal scored in this millennium?

They’ve been too busy chasing Robin Hood?

So they’ve been out of tHe Premier League for most of the past 22 years?s

[UcanUwill]

West Ham terrible luck and some Henderson heroics earned Forest 3 points.

[Baphomet]

Don't know why Tuchel doesn't set Chelsea up with a back 3 all the time, they look excellent.