Carmelo vs Chauncey - Greater Peak/Prime Run

[Chronz]

Is it close? Career wise I could see the argument for Melo given his longevity but in terms of who reached the higher level of play... who you got?

[No-more-rings]

Offensively it’s Melo, he was still a scoring force that required a lot of attention. Defensively he was just poor most of the time, so idk. By the mainstream media Melo would be considered easily better, but in reality he’s not much better and probably not better at all.

[Cavsfansince84]

Just using some traditional metrics Chauncey peaked out at 6.2 vorp and 15.1 win shares while Melo did at 5.3 and 10.7. Which barely gets into intangibles and defense where the gap only becomes larger imo. So I see this as being clearly Chauncey.

[SickMother]

Billups easily here. Dude was a monster for six seasons from 03/04 to 08/09...
RS: 20.7 PER | .593 TS% | 74.0 WS | .217 WS/48 | 122 ORtg | 105 DRtg | +6.3 O/O
PO: 19.9 PER | .587 TS% | 18.7 WS | .208 WS/48 | 120 ORtg | 104 DRtg | +7.0 O/O

Carmelo's best six season stretch looks like 08/09 to 13/14 to me...
RS: 22.4 PER | .549 TS% | 47.2 WS | .151 WS/48 | 110 ORtg | 107 DRtg | +3.7 O/O
PO: 22.6 PER | .529 TS% | 5.3 WS | .148 WS/48 | 108 ORtg | 107 DRtg | -0.5 O/O

[Chronz]

I love that it's more of a conversation here, I frequent other boards where people think it's not even close, in Melos favor no less

[Jaivl]

I go peak Melo (2013), but prime Chauncey.

Career I take Billups as well, 75ish vs 90ish.

[megarover]

I love that it's more of a conversation here, I frequent other boards where people think it's not even close, in Melos favor no less

More of a conversation seems to be underselling it. Billups has like 80 % of the vote in a comparsion that should likely be more 50-50.

[f4p]

I love that it's more of a conversation here, I frequent other boards where people think it's not even close, in Melos favor no less

More of a conversation seems to be underselling it. Billups has like 80 % of the vote in a comparsion that should likely be more 50-50.

exactly. i generally dislike all things melo, but billups is a nice little efficient player if you have a legendary defense. you build around melo and not billups.

[tsherkin]

Mmm. Tough call. As a general player, I'd take Billups over Melo pretty much every time. Not worth paying a player whose only attribute is scoring that generally isn't worth it as a focal option. That said, peak Melo? Like, New York peak where he was playing more PF, had Jason Kidd for a year? That's at least a little more compelling a choice. But 06-08 Billups was about as good as that Melo on O anyways, he just did it with less sexy PPG and more passing, game management and so forth. Plus defense.

So for me, peak and prime, Billups. People overrate volume scoring a lot. Detroit wasn't even a "legendary defense," as f4p referenced, in the mid/late 2000s when Billups was at his offensive peak. Very good, to be sure, but like top-5 good, not "all-time" good. And that's when they were hitting their RS peak, still smashing it into the conference finals, etc.

[megarover]

For me this Melo. Billups was fine on offense especially his ability to run a offense but Anthony's dynamic scoring drew more attention. I have a low opinion of the East during that time period so I dont put much stock in his Conference Finals berth as some.

Billups defense is where he closes the gap in this comparison but those Detriot teams were definitely build on the back of the defense. Saying otherwise seems disingenuous. Melo' effort on the defensive end was lackluster most of the time but there were times he could be bothered to give a damn.

[Dr Positivity]

Billups is better on both ends than Melo for me

[SickMother]

Chauncey Billups attempted 11,413 Field Goals in his career.

Carmelo Anthony missed 12,524 Field Goals in his career.

[tsherkin]

Chauncey Billups attempted 11,413 Field Goals in his career.

Carmelo Anthony missed 12,524 Field Goals in his career.

And?

[SickMother]

Chauncey Billups attempted 11,413 Field Goals in his career.

Carmelo Anthony missed 12,524 Field Goals in his career.

And?

Just thought it was an interesting way to illustrate the efficiency gap between Chauncey & Carmelo.

Helps explain how Billups posted 109 TS+ and 1,336 TS Add for his career compared to a 100 TS+ and 72 TS Add for Anthony.

[tsherkin]

Just thought it was an interesting way to illustrate the efficiency gap between Chauncey & Carmelo.

Helps explain how Billups posted 109 TS+ and 1,336 TS Add for his career compared to a 100 TS+ and 72 TS Add for Anthony.

It mostly circles back to "Melo shot too much for his own good because he was an old-school holdout in terms of player style."

Billups was a "3 or FTs" kind of player before that became common, so his efficiency was pretty good on average, if a bit inconsistent from game to game. Kind of like a low-volume Harden, if you like. But he was a better overall addition to team offense than someone who never really joined the 21st century in terms of basketball mentality. Things were a little better when he was playing as an undersized 4 in New York, but ultimately, Melo's approach to the game was not ideal even in his own era.

But yes, there is a large shooting volume difference between the two which needs to be addressed when discussing specific efficiency.

[Bidofo]

I love that it's more of a conversation here, I frequent other boards where people think it's not even close, in Melos favor no less

More of a conversation seems to be underselling it. Billups has like 80 % of the vote in a comparsion that should likely be more 50-50.

exactly. i generally dislike all things melo, but billups is a nice little efficient player if you have a legendary defense. you build around melo and not billups.

Billups and Melo played two healthy seasons together and Billups was arguably the better offensive player.

[andyhop]

I love that it's more of a conversation here, I frequent other boards where people think it's not even close, in Melos favor no less

More of a conversation seems to be underselling it. Billups has like 80 % of the vote in a comparsion that should likely be more 50-50.

exactly. i generally dislike all things melo, but billups is a nice little efficient player if you have a legendary defense. you build around melo and not billups.

If you are building around Melo you are doing it wrong

[tsherkin]

exactly. i generally dislike all things melo, but billups is a nice little efficient player if you have a legendary defense. you build around melo and not billups.

Inherent to this line of thinking is that Melo, as he played across the bulk of his career, was a player well-suited to be the focal piece of a title team. And that is not really accurate, more a production of PPG fetishism than anything else.

[tsherkin]

exactly. i generally dislike all things melo, but billups is a nice little efficient player if you have a legendary defense. you build around melo and not billups.

Inherent to this line of thinking is that Melo, as he played across the bulk of his career, was a player well-suited to be the focal piece of a title team. And that is not really accurate, more a production of PPG fetishism than anything else.