How would hakeem do in jordan place in chicago 1988-1993?

[falcolombardi]

Kind of a weird question as they are not the same position i know

Lets imagine bulls play a hakeem/grant/pippen mostly the same backcourt minus jordan up to the year of jordan first retirement

How would that team do against the likes of phoenix, portland, lakers and knicks?

[henshao]

Does Jordan go to the Rockets?

[falcolombardi]

Does Jordan go to the Rockets?

Sure

Jordan never had to face the rockets in those years so just assume the jordan rockets dont make the finals in those seasons

[henshao]

Well I don't know how Doug Collins would respond but Phil Jackson either commits fully to BJ Armstrong or trades someone for a star guard and runs a particularly devastating triangle to several championships at least

[Djoker]

I think they would win a ring at some point probably in 1991. Hakeem wasn't a good passer out of double teams though and the offense would get really bogged down. The Rockets had amazing spacing in 1994 and 1995 (especially relative to era) and Hakeem had improved as a passer. Defensively, the Bulls improve with Hakeem. I think they get like 4 points worse on offense and like 2 points better on defense so they are a 55-60 win team from 1991-1993 once Pippen matures and they win a ring. From 1988-1990, the roster isn't good enough.

[wojoaderge]

Who plays SG?

[henshao]

Bear in mind, Hakeem's assist numbers climbed dramatically with the change of basically one variable: his coach. from Don Chaney to Rudy Tomjanovich Hakeem suddenly "figures out" how to pass more, which suggests to me it was not a limitation of the player but the system he was in. Dream was never a great offensive hub but he was serviceable in the Rudy T years and I have no reason to believe Phil Jackson would do worse

[f4p]

Bear in mind, Hakeem's assist numbers climbed dramatically with the change of basically one variable: his coach. from Don Chaney to Rudy Tomjanovich Hakeem suddenly "figures out" how to pass more, which suggests to me it was not a limitation of the player but the system he was in. Dream was never a great offensive hub but he was serviceable in the Rudy T years and I have no reason to believe Phil Jackson would do worse

exactly. i'm not saying it's impossible that hakeem improved a little, but the theory that hakeem "got better" or "figured it out" doesn't make a ton of sense when you look at his APG. if he figured it out, you would expect that his assists would climb over a period of several years, or at least it would take 2 years. say where it jumps in 1993 and then peaks in 1995. but instead, it went straight up in 1993 and then stayed at almost the exact same 3.5 or 3.6 apg level for 4 straight years (per 100 it was basically the same for 6 straight seasons). even in the playoffs, it actually peaked in 1993, both per game and per 100. so did hakeem figure everything out over the course of one offseason? seems dubious. now i suppose you could take that in the bad way that hakeem didn't actually improve so he was still bad. but really, Rudy T seemed to just walk in and say "hey, did you guys know this hakeem fella is pretty good? what if we gave him the ball all the time instead of whatever y'all think passes for an offensive system?" and hakeem's scoring and passing spiked simultaneously. what could be if he had found his best coach much earlier.

[SinceGatlingWasARookie]

Bulls need an off guard. Let Hakeem take Vernon Maxwell with him to the Bulls and Hakeem and Mad Max, Paxson, Pippen, Grant with a nice back up center in Cartwright should be able to win some championships.

They also have Hodges, BJ Armstrong, Levingston, Scott Williams and Stacy king. Stacked with rebounders at power forward. Rockets were leading the league in 3s to create space for Hakeem and Bulls could do the same thing. Paxson Armstron Hodges are a little weak defensively at point guard as they were for the Bulls. Maxwell is not as good defensively as Jordan but he was a good defender. I would give Maxwell the green light to fling low percentage 3s just as he did for the Rockets.

[prolific passer]

Hakeem would have Grant and Pippen up front with him and Pippen would have been the ideal #2 option for him. Pippen is the ideal #2 for any great #1 option in nba history really. Trade Oakley for a 2 guard instead of a center.