What players who led ring winning teams wouldnt be seen as capable of it today?

[AEnigma]

He had about as valid a case for MVP as 2021 Chris Paul did.

Which is to say, not none, but nowhere near enough to rage about how clearly the media did not respect his oh so brilliant game enough.

[tsherkin]

Steph Curry
Dirk Nowitzki
Duncan

First of all, what? Steph literally just won the NBA title. And not his first, either. This makes no sense.

Next, Dirk? He'd probably look even better with the way the league has gone. A dominant scorer with the right skills profile to thrive today. And if you put actual, appropriate talent next to him instead of a brilliant one-shot selection of defenders and roleplayers who all came through at the right time, he'd look even better.

Duncan, I can at least see the argument because people might misinterpret the depressed scoring environment from his heyday but he was very good and would likely look better today with more spacing.

But, you see, he doesn't have the SWISH on his shot or the ZING on his handles. He's a boring boring rebounder.

Right, but he also wasn't a particularly good passer and his scoring volume and level of efficiency aren't really enough to drive team offense effectively in this environment. He would remain good, but he didn't exactly lead Philly to a title in reality either. He dropped onto a Sixers squad that had taken the Lakers to 6 just the year before and helped them win. So he doesn't REALLY belong in this conversation.

Moses is a tough one to evaluate. We have an era where offensive rebounding means less. Perhaps that means his skill set is deprecated, but perhaps it instead means he'd have a larger overall impact. Perhaps he'd cost his teams in transition a little, but then, you'd expect the same back in the 70s and 80s at higher tempos. He's not a good offensive hub in the sense that he didn't really facilitate for others, which already means you need a primary playmaker on top of him, and his efficiency profile is below what you'd want from a primary volume scorer in today's league, particularly without passing. In his own era, the Rockets were a very good offensive team for a couple years until Murphy started his decline, and of course when they led the league in ORTG, it was 4 points worse than 2022's league average. Personnel make some difference here, but I have a hard time believing in Moses' ability to act as a title centerpiece today, particularly when he didn't even do it then. Sure, he made the Finals with Houston as a sub-.500 team in 81. Snuck through the best-of-3 first round against the defending champion Lakers. Murphy came up huge in the series with the Spurs, and they ran into another 40-42 team in the CFs in the Kings. Then he had a fairly quiet series against the Celtics in the Finals.

Moses seems more like a quality #2.

[RCM88x]

Steph Curry
Dirk Nowitzki
Duncan

First of all, what? Steph literally just won the NBA title. And not his first, either. This makes no sense.

Next, Dirk? He'd probably look even better with the way the league has gone. A dominant scorer with the right skills profile to thrive today. And if you put actual, appropriate talent next to him instead of a brilliant one-shot selection of defenders and roleplayers who all came through at the right time, he'd look even better.

Duncan, I can at least see the argument because people might misinterpret the depressed scoring environment from his heyday but he was very good and would likely look better today with more spacing.

The question in the title and the first post seem to be conflicting.

"Random thought about how guys like 2004 ben wallace/chauncey billups or 1978 wes unseld may have get the "you cannot win with him as your best player" treatment if it was not for them actually winning"

This is was what I was responding to, not the thread title.

[tsherkin]

This is was what I was responding to, not the thread title.

Ah, fair play.