tsherkin wrote:dhsilv2 wrote:
Any even simple look at their team numbers of this, their best stretch shows that their offense was elite. It was their defense that looked to be the problem and it's backed up by some of the series where they were just scored on.
Yes, on average, their offense was very good. The contention isn't that they weren't able to produce high-end offense, it's that when it mattered, they needed someone to step up offensively.
In 1990, they were -2.0 relative to their RS ORTG versus Phoenix (6th-ranked defense) and -1.5 relative to Phoenix's ORTG. Series went 5, they lost the last game by 2, and both Stockton and Thurl Bailey shot like slow-roasted dogcrap in the elimination game. Stockton was 3/11 ,0/3 from 3. Loads and loads of assists (17), of course, and Bailey took 29 FGAs, so you can argue who was more responsible for that loss, to be sure. But he didn't do great things with the scoring possessions that he had. You can maybe argue that he felt he was having a rough game and decided to be passive and see what others could do, but that didn't work out great either. This was prior to Utah being elite on offense, mind. They were 10th in 1990, 11th in 1991.
Hard to blame Utah for the WCS against the Blazers, who were the 2nd-best O and 3rd-ranked defense. They were outclassed. Didn't have the depth or secondary scoring punch to go head-to-head with Portland and Drexler.
1992, first year that the Jazz are actually a noteworthy offense, 4th-ranked and everything. Made a run into the WCFs, faced the Blazers, who had fallen off a bit offensively compared to the previous RS but not so much defensively. Utah got steamrolled, Portland ate them alive on offense. Terry Porter absolutely murdered them. Drexler was great, but Porter put 26/8 on 72.4% TS (52.9% from 3, 18/34) on Utah. Stockton shot under 40% from the field on the series, a shade over 23% from 3 and basically looked helpless at anything but giving up the ball. They got blown out in the opener; that certainly wasn't all on Stockton. Malone had 11 points on 3/6 shooting. Stockton was 1/6. They lost by 17 in game 2. Stockton and Malone both had far better games, but Utah was incompetent on D against the Blazers. Drexler and Porter murdered them. Stockton ate 41 from Porter on 12/14 shooting, 4/5 from 3 and 13/14 at the line. Like, it's hard to get beaten that thoroughly while you're putting in effort. The Jazz were a good defensive team, and their offense tried to keep pace, but Portland just bludgeoned them into submission. Stockton stank (4/13) as a scorer in Game 3 but they dragged the pace down and won. Porter also had a crap game (3/13). Utah had an offensive explosion to win their last game of the series in game 4. Porter ate them alive again (34/7, 9/16, 4/8 from 3, 12/12 at the line), but the Malones came through. Stockton had a good game. He didn't need to shoot more that game but he was 6/11 from the field. Stockton was 1/6 in game 5 in a 6-point loss. Karl Malone had a huge game, Jeff Malone had a good one, Tyrone Corbin of all people had a fine game off the bench (28 points). And of course, that's also the game Drexler poked him in the eye, so he only played 23 minutes. He was garbage in Game 6 (5/19, 26.3%, 1/8 from 3) on a night when the Jazz shot 38.1% from the field.
Lost in 5 to the Sonics in 93. This was mostly before Payton's real breakout, it was his third season, but the Sonics were still elite at either end. The Jazz were solid. Seattle had a half-dozen guys scoring over 11 ppg in that series, and Utah let Sam Perkins grab 9.8 rpg against them, which is a little embarrassing. Stockton was... unremarkable. He shot a 45/38/83 and posted 13/11 on about 56% TS in a series where Utah was around -5 ORTG relative to their opponent. They needed more, didn't get it. Certainly, he wasn't alone in that regard; Karl Malone didn't shine and Jeff Malone smelled like a cat lady partying in a jar of cheese whiz. Sadly, both Stockton and Malone showed up in the elimination game but they just couldn't defend the Sonics. Stockton had what was generally speaking a big game for him, with a very efficient 19 points.
They lost to the 94 Rockets, still an unremarkable but solid offense. They were ranked 7th again. Not elite, again, apart from that blip in 92. Kenny Smith rained 3s all over them and of course Hakeem tore them apart. Karl Malone shot 43% on the series. Stockton shot a 41.5/26.5/78 for 14 ppg on 49.4% TS (Malone was at 26 ppg on 50.5% TS, across 44.8 mpg). So, again, unimpressive. Certainly not shouldering the burden all on his own, was Stockton, but definitely not giving them a chance to win. Definitely not that perimeter pressure to help open things up for everyone else. That wasn't what he brought to the table. There were diminishing returns to what he could offer a team offensively. If you could bust up their system, if you had size/athleticism, the natural things you'd expect happened with your short PG who didn't have physical advantages. Yeah, he had end to end quickness, for sure, but like, this is not the dude you were worried about popping off for 30 on you to save the day.
They took the Rockets to 5 games in the first round the next season. Utah was the 4th-ranked offense in 1995.Kenny Smith torched them again (17 ppg on 80.7% TS, 63.0% from 3 [minding that this was the first year the line was pulled in], 17/27 3P), and of course Drexler and Olajuwon ripped them apart. Particularly Hakeem (35 ppg, 60.6% TS), but Drexler put up 25 ppg on 72.1% TS. Malone had a good series. He tried to keep pace, managed 30 ppg on 55% TS and 9.3% TOV. Stockton had a solid series. Not solid enough to matter, but he posted 17.8 ppg on 54.6% TS, was 8/20 from 3. He just didn't provide a consequential secondary volume scorer to help match off Drexler while Malone tried to match Olajuwon. This is what people mean; Stockton was good, but he didn't have the punch when another team was really hitting Utah with scoring prowess.
96. Now we're talking 2nd-ranked offense, and without really leveraging the 3pt shot in general or the pulled-in line in particular (25th in 3PAr). Didn't matter, though, because they hit their shots at such a high rate and drew a ton of fouls. OKay. So they meet the Sonics in the WCFs. It goes 7 games. Payton trashes all over them in a grinder series at 86 possessions per game. Kemp shoots 69% from the field en route to 20 ppg. Malone couldn't hit a FT to save his damned life and Stockton couldn't hit anything to save his life, managing 9.9 ppg (4th on the team) on 39.7% FG, 20.0% 3P and 57.9% FT. He did try to put it together in the elimination game. While Malone crapped the bed in epic fashion, Stockton posted 22 on 9/15 shooting. It was his third double-digit scoring performance of the series and his first time over 14 points. On the series, he shot 2/10, 5/8, 2/9, 3/9, 1/6, 5/11 and 9/15. Not a banner series for him.
97. Malone cheats to get them into the Finals past the Rockets. They find themselves very much harried by the length and athleticism of the Bulls. Stockton plays a quiet, steady series while Malone wilts. Stockton is 2/5 in the second half of game 6 and is 0/1 in the 4th quarter while Chicago beats the pants off of them and goes +10 en route to the title. Shandon Anderson is 1/6 in the fourth quarter, outshooting both Karl Malone and John Stockton. Combined.
I'm with you; there are a couple of series where there isn't a reasonable expectation that they should have won. There are, however, a couple of series where it would have at least been more competitive a matchup if John had the tools to be a more dangerous scoring threat. For years and years, Utah wasn't actually an elite offense, merely a good one. They were missing some extra punch which he never provided. And that's really the bit people are looking at. That, and the playoffs.
