AbeVigodaLive wrote:The John Stockton vs. Isiah Thomas debate is an interesting one.
You can usually tell the people who watched them play vs. those scrolling basketballreference.com.
- Stockton absolutely destroys Isiah Thomas if we only look at stats... ESPECIALLY... if we're looking at their comparative stats via a 2022 lens. Things like TS%, WS or even PER.
- Those who watched them play often tend to give Thomas a bit more credit. In part because the things that made Thomas good (despite the inefficient stats) are the types of things that were heavily desired and rewarded in a different era of NBA basketball. Stockton was great, but he was limited at times and did not (or could not) inflict his will on a game. Thomas was more inconsistent, but he had more moments where he took over critical games.
Personally, I don't have a dog in the fight. I really dig both players. I think I choose Stockton for his career, or if it was a series and I already had a #1 guy to lead us, and just needed to get him the ball. But for one or two must-win games? I'm rolling the dice with Thomas as THE guy.
I intended to respond to this earlier but didn't get around to it. A few points.
1. Even if you weren't around or just weren't a basketball fan when Zeke was at his apex (early/mid 80's) or for the titles runs (late 80's). He's got mountains of games on youtube. ESPN/ESPN2 have run those hardwood classics a million times, nearly anyone over 20 I'd guess has seen at least some of those if not likely seen them 100x over.
2. The legacy of Thomas is pretty huge, after MJ, Bird, and Magic - I think thomas might actually have more hype and lore than even Dr J from that era just due to all the bad boys talk. He's legacy as the leader of those Pistons is no small thing.
3. A great many of the people who missed thomas on tv, didn't have WS, VORP, or PER when they learned about him. If we look at a few of the age threads on this forum, you'll see this forum is overwhelmingly people who were watching ball in the 90's, but many maybe being a bit too young for IT....but by NO means did they get into this in the modern advanced box era let alone the +/- era.
I say the above to point out that like most things, you don't HAVE to have been there. Many people correctly imo have adjusted their views of the past based on stats while still honoring the reality of what was said, thought, and what they themselves observed. I wasn't watching the nba for IT's peak when he was leading a top offensive team that played poor defense and was losing early in the playoffs. But it doesn't mean I haven't seen some older games from him. But I was for SURE around when we saw a better version of him in AI, got hog wild on far worse teams, and looking back...my attempt at getting all his rookie cards was stupid...(still need a chrome to complete it...kinda want to do it since it's not really an expensive card for me anymore) as ultimately AI was a great player but we overrated him then. We overrated IT in his era too. We do that a LOT with high scoring players.
Now I then take a step back and should remind people. Stockton was an 11 time all nba player. 5x all defense. And 2x first team guy. thomas was never an all nba defensive guy and was only all nba 5x. He was however first team 3 times.
It wasn't like when they were playing there was a huge perception difference. Thomas seemed to grow in lore the betters MJ did long after he was retired.
(not sure where I heard him called that, but I was a bit less mature 30 years ago and i still crack up).
