#10 - Spida Thread - I hate sham

[stuporman]

Randle is a bad fit...... period.

[TheGreenArrow]

Jazz fans like a deal of Rj/McBride/Fournier/Obi/2unprotected picks/3protected picks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I think I’d do it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Brunson/Drose
Dmitch/iQ
Cam/Grimes
Randle/?
Mitch/ihart

[N Y K]

Jazz fans like a deal of Rj/McBride/Fournier/Obi/2unprotected picks/3protected picks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I think I’d do it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Brunson/Drose
Dmitch/iQ
Cam/Grimes
Randle/?
Mitch/ihart

I'm sure you would

[robillionaire]

I just got the word from begley that RJ is on the way to a Utah wow that’s crazy the prophecy came true thanks for the memories RJ enjoy the beehive state!!!

[bearadonisdna]

Jazz fans like a deal of Rj/McBride/Fournier/Obi/2unprotected picks/3protected picks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I think I’d do it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Brunson/Drose
Dmitch/iQ
Cam/Grimes
Randle/?
Mitch/ihart

Of course they do !
Look at the team , we’ll be in the lottery !
We just gave them a haul for the worst defender on our team .

[Chanel Bomber]

Not even close. More efficient on lesser volume sure.
There’s no way Horford makes us a better team than Julius Randle .

And I think he would.

He might not do as well as Randle if you put him in his role as the hub of the Knicks' offense.

But he's a much better defender and a better off-ball player than Randle, who projects much better than Randle as a piece on a winning team.

It's not some weird coincidence that Horford's made the playoffs 13 times in his career, and Randle only once. It's not just about help - Horford played a big part in the success of his teams. Including last year on the Celtics.

A lot of players can put up numbers if given a high usage. But do you contribute to winning on defense? Do you contribute to winning when you don't have the ball? These answers are a resounding yes in the case of Horford.

We’re not talking about career achievement Horford , only current day 35 year old ,not very productive 46% fgs on lower volume than Mitch .

Al Horford is a solid role player . He isn’t capable of leading a team in 3 major categories like Julius. They are actually tiers apart .

Julius leading the team in scoring and assists means he was high on the team in touches and usage, which is not a recipe for winning, knowing how inefficient he can be. You add in a lack of commitment on defense (last year, not the year before) and you have a guy who just drags your team down.

So how valuable is he really in that role?

And if not in that role, how does he perform in more of an off-ball role? Because Horford has him beat there in all categories.

The Celtics were 36-36 last year and got bounced in the first round. They brought back Horford and (along with some internal development) it definitely helped make the Finals this year.

Horford is a proven winner, still today.

[bearadonisdna]

Randle is a bad fit...... period.

A bad fit for what ?
That’s the point . He is the foundation. Him and RJ basically .
So bad fit for RJ?
Maybe not the man is averaging 24 ppg in his last half season as a knick

[Chanel Bomber]

We should have traded Randle for Batum when we had the chance.

I agree but to be fair without Randle we don't make the playoffs in 2021 and so let's be honest that run was fun.

It was our only enjoyable season since 2013. It's almost a decade ago

yeah i just can't hate on a guy who gave us our best season since 2013. nobody has done this since prime melo. i'll always be grateful for it, unlike some miserable people here!

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It think it was moreso D-Rose though lol but yeah Randle was good that year and he helped put the Knicks back on the map - for a time. We can't take that for granted as Knicks fans

[Clyde_Style]

yes ^^ of course I think that. because he can‘t play off the ball and all 3 teams have way better players. why would you add Randle? to get the ball out of tatum/browns/KD/kyrie/DDR/Lavines hands while paying a billion $ tax?

Of course he can play off the ball he is a PF!
His role on this team is to be the engine , Blame the coach not the player.
Way better players ?
Horford , Brooklyn has NOBODY so KD has to play pf , and Bulls only have question mark pat Williams .
Julius makes them all a better team .
Btw Julius makes less money than Al freakin triple single every other game Horford.
Why would they pay much tax ? They sending out the same salary they getting in .
They wouldn’t not pay more than they already are so it’s a non factor .

Horford is a better basketball player than Randle.

Even an Old Horford is better than Randle

[Reign23]

Just Remember they don’t want to .
Really thinking the Knicks can’t give Julie away is conjecture because the FO has unlikely pursued those type of trades .

You don’t think Boston , Chicago , Brooklyn , etc etc couldn’t use Randle for free? The point is the FO isn’t looking to make that move .

yes ^^ of course I think that. because he can‘t play off the ball and all 3 teams have way better players. why would you add Randle? to get the ball out of tatum/browns/KD/kyrie/DDR/Lavines hands while paying a billion $ tax?

Of course he can play off the ball he is a PF!
His role on this team is to be the engine , Blame the coach not the player.
Way better players ?
Horford , Brooklyn has NOBODY so KD has to play pf , and Bulls only have question mark pat Williams .
Julius makes them all a better team .
Btw Julius makes less money than Al freakin triple single every other game Horford.
Why would they pay much tax ? They sending out the same salary they getting in .
They wouldn’t not pay more than they already are so it’s a non factor .

Horford is an elite big man shooter and still holds his ground on D. he is the exact player you want next to stars like tatum and brown.
and he might make less for this season, yes. but after that? ugh.
and KD is a PF for many many years now. that is far off sorry.

[bearadonisdna]

And I think he would.

He might not do as well as Randle if you put him in his role as the hub of the Knicks' offense.

But he's a much better defender and a better off-ball player than Randle, who projects much better than Randle as a piece on a winning team.

It's not some weird coincidence that Horford's made the playoffs 13 times in his career, and Randle only once. It's not just about help - Horford played a big part in the success of his teams. Including last year on the Celtics.

A lot of players can put up numbers if given a high usage. But do you contribute to winning on defense? Do you contribute to winning when you don't have the ball? These answers are a resounding yes in the case of Horford.

We’re not talking about career achievement Horford , only current day 35 year old ,not very productive 46% fgs on lower volume than Mitch .

Al Horford is a solid role player . He isn’t capable of leading a team in 3 major categories like Julius. They are actually tiers apart .

Julius leading the team in scoring and assists means he was high on the team in touches and usage, which is not a recipe for winning, knowing how inefficient he can be. You add in a lack of commitment on defense (last year, not the year before) and you have a guy who just drags your team down.

So how valuable is he really in that role?

And if not in that role, how does he perform in more of an off-ball role? Because Horford has him beat there in all categories.

The Celtics were 36-36 last year and got bounced in the first round. They brought back Horford and (along with some internal development) it definitely helped make the Finals this year.

Horford is a proven winner, still today.

You can’t parade Horford for being more efficient in a lesser role. Practically a glorified backup .
His lesser role is indicative of diminished skill , incapability etc.
It’s comparing apples and oranges .
Horford is the 5th best player on the Celtics lineup. .
Julius is the Knicks most productive player by far.
It would take Horford 3 years to even match Julius scoring volume of last season .

Horford is basically a less efficient 35 year old obi but at least Celtics are smart enough to start him .

[bearadonisdna]

yes ^^ of course I think that. because he can‘t play off the ball and all 3 teams have way better players. why would you add Randle? to get the ball out of tatum/browns/KD/kyrie/DDR/Lavines hands while paying a billion $ tax?

Of course he can play off the ball he is a PF!
His role on this team is to be the engine , Blame the coach not the player.
Way better players ?
Horford , Brooklyn has NOBODY so KD has to play pf , and Bulls only have question mark pat Williams .
Julius makes them all a better team .
Btw Julius makes less money than Al freakin triple single every other game Horford.
Why would they pay much tax ? They sending out the same salary they getting in .
They wouldn’t not pay more than they already are so it’s a non factor .

Horford is an elite big man shooter and still holds his ground on D. he is the exact player you want next to stars like tatum and brown.
and he might make less for this season, yes. but after that? ugh.
and KD is a PF for many many years now. that is far off sorry.

Many many many years now?
Am pretty sure he played with career PF draymond green until he left to Brooklyn .

[Chanel Bomber]

Randle is a bad fit...... period.

A bad fit for what ?
That’s the point . He is the foundation. Him and RJ basically .
So bad fit for RJ?
Maybe not the man is averaging 24 ppg in his last half season as a knick

Man Stackhouse once averaged 29.8 points for the Pistons and they won a championship two years after he left.

NBA history is filled with 20 ppg chuckers on losing/average teams.

Stackhouse
Mashburn
Antoine Walker
Ricky Davis
Monta Ellis
Brandon Jennings
Jalen Rose
Antawn Jamison

Just a few names.

The issue with the Knicks is not the role players. It's their high-usage players. They're not good enough to be in that role. It's pretty obvious.

[Ghetto Gospel]

Randle is a bad fit...... period.

A bad fit for what ?
That’s the point . He is the foundation. Him and RJ basically .
So bad fit for RJ?
Maybe not the man is averaging 24 ppg in his last half season as a knick

Man Stackhouse once averaged 29.8 points for the Pistons and they won a championship two years after he left.

NBA history is filled with 20 ppg chuckers on losing/average teams.

Stackhouse
Mashburn
Antoine Walker
Ricky Davis
Monta Ellis
Brandon Jennings
Jalen Rose
Antawn Jamison

Just a few names.

The issue with the Knicks is not the role players. It's their high-usage players. They're not good enough to be in that role. It's pretty obvious.

interesting to see rj not listed here chanel, my disappointment is immeasurable and my day is ruined

[TrueWarrior]

Chanel is fighting the good fight.

I would just give up tho man. Many posters dont really understand basketball or how fit, roles, and efficiency are important. This isnt baseball where we can just plug a batter in a lineup and hes going to hit basically the same no matter who surrounds him.

[bearadonisdna]

Randle is a bad fit...... period.

A bad fit for what ?
That’s the point . He is the foundation. Him and RJ basically .
So bad fit for RJ?
Maybe not the man is averaging 24 ppg in his last half season as a knick

Man Stackhouse once averaged 29.8 points for the Pistons and they won a championship two years after he left.

NBA history is filled with 20 ppg chuckers on losing/average teams.

Stackhouse
Mashburn
Antoine Walker
Ricky Davis
Monta Ellis
Brandon Jennings
Jalen Rose
Antawn Jamison

Just a few names.

The issue with the Knicks is not the role players. It's their high-usage players. They're not good enough to be in that role. It's pretty obvious.

Not sure why you bring up Jerry stack house ,?
Who without even looking can tell you at 29.8 ppg was a superior player to current day Al Horford.

[RHODEY]

I'm hoping it fails too. Does anyone really think he'll ever be consistently top 10 in the NBA? I don't. And I doubt he'll even have 1 year as a top 5 guy.

I don't want to break the bank for a guy who is in the 10 to 25 range. Especially when there are roster fit issues. Roster fit issues are ignored for true superstars but for everyone else it is a concern.

I actually think he could put up some sick numbers offensively at the garden, but his defense scares me..doubly so because we don't have a Dejounte Murray to somewhat make up for it. I still would want him but for no more than the proposed offer -while switching out IQ for Obi.

IMO this talk about RJ is all cap to get the Knicks to move off of more picks and Grimes in addition to Obi. F@ck that mess.

His defense terrifies me. He flat out stopped caring about defense entirerly after his first couple of years. Instead he put all the pressure on Gobert to bail him out. Frankly, Utah's post-season disappointments to me are primarily on the perimeter players, and especially Mitchell, who just said to Gobert you fix it.

Yes his defense is putrid and a definiely liabilty but....
in his "defense" he has the tools to be a good defender - he was at one point and he's got those long ass arms, and the motor , hence the Spida nickname,. He just has to commit.

To be a superstar while playing terrible D you need elite offense, ala Harden. Does anyone look at Mitchell and say that guy could be a top 3 offensive player in the NBA? I don't see the decision making to get there.

Maybe....I do think he is a scoring engine. You mentioned Harden. Well check out this list:



Dude is up there with the greats so yeah perhaps ....

[Reign23]

Of course he can play off the ball he is a PF!
His role on this team is to be the engine , Blame the coach not the player.
Way better players ?
Horford , Brooklyn has NOBODY so KD has to play pf , and Bulls only have question mark pat Williams .
Julius makes them all a better team .
Btw Julius makes less money than Al freakin triple single every other game Horford.
Why would they pay much tax ? They sending out the same salary they getting in .
They wouldn’t not pay more than they already are so it’s a non factor .

Horford is an elite big man shooter and still holds his ground on D. he is the exact player you want next to stars like tatum and brown.
and he might make less for this season, yes. but after that? ugh.
and KD is a PF for many many years now. that is far off sorry.

Many many many years now?
Am pretty sure he played with career PF draymond green until he left to Brooklyn .

he played a lot of PF in gsw as well with dray at the 5 in the death lineups. and the positions are completely switchable with him and simmons. both can play both F postions.
I understand what your point with Randle is, but you need to factor in roles. If you are a bad shooter and defender you can‘t play next to stars. if he regains his 2021 form, whole differen convo. but it appears that this was his outlier season.

[Jeff Van Gully]

the frank crow is still tbd melo

Bruh

nah jk I gave up on him at about halfway through his last season here. I still think he has the tools to be a good 3 and d guy, but not the mental strenght.
the door is still a little bit open for him, tho cause he is still young.

sooo I deserve the crow

nah. frank still beat DSJ.

[Jeff Van Gully]

Bruh

nah jk I gave up on him at about halfway through his last season here. I still think he has the tools to be a good 3 and d guy, but not the mental strenght.
the door is still a little bit open for him, tho cause he is still young.

sooo I deserve the crow

it's ok. im holding an L on DSJ too. i actually saw him like 3 times over the summer in miami pro league. his jumper looks worse than ever. i've only seen him hit one jumper in 3 games.. hes gone to china or europe lol

i respect this.