#10 - Spida Thread - I hate sham

[bearadonisdna]

Chanel is fighting the good fight.

I would just give up tho man. Many posters dont really understand basketball or how fit, roles, and efficiency are important. This isnt baseball where we can just plug a batter in a lineup and hes going to hit basically the same no matter who surrounds him.

The good fight?
That’s a joke , he berates one of the Knicks only foundational players day in and day out.
The Knicks have not had a homegrown prospect this good since………….?
Am curious to the answers
Wait ever? Because if that Charlie ward curse. You guys in over you head thinking I’m be fooled by svengoolie crap going around in here since last thread

[Chanel Bomber]

We’re not talking about career achievement Horford , only current day 35 year old ,not very productive 46% fgs on lower volume than Mitch .

Al Horford is a solid role player . He isn’t capable of leading a team in 3 major categories like Julius. They are actually tiers apart .

Julius leading the team in scoring and assists means he was high on the team in touches and usage, which is not a recipe for winning, knowing how inefficient he can be. You add in a lack of commitment on defense (last year, not the year before) and you have a guy who just drags your team down.

So how valuable is he really in that role?

And if not in that role, how does he perform in more of an off-ball role? Because Horford has him beat there in all categories.

The Celtics were 36-36 last year and got bounced in the first round. They brought back Horford and (along with some internal development) it definitely helped make the Finals this year.

Horford is a proven winner, still today.

You can’t parade Horford for being more efficient in a lesser role. Practically a glorified backup .
His lesser role is indicative of diminished skill , incapability etc.
It’s comparing apples and oranges .
Horford is the 5th best player on the Celtics lineup. .
Julius is the Knicks most productive player by far.
It would take Horford 3 years to even match Julius scoring volume of last season .

Horford is basically a less efficient 35 year old obi but at least Celtics are smart enough to start him .

High-volume scoring doesn't mean much if it's on low efficiency. It inevitably drags down the efficiency of your offense.

Every team in the NBA has approximately 100 possessions to use on offense. These teams will have players who will produce by default.

Production in and of itself is not necessarily conducive to winning.

[Capn'O]

nah jk I gave up on him at about halfway through his last season here. I still think he has the tools to be a good 3 and d guy, but not the mental strenght.
the door is still a little bit open for him, tho cause he is still young.

sooo I deserve the crow

it's ok. im holding an L on DSJ too. i actually saw him like 3 times over the summer in miami pro league. his jumper looks worse than ever. i've only seen him hit one jumper in 3 games.. hes gone to china or europe lol

i respect this.

Melo sold on DSJ in BAF years ago. If you watch him in that game you see the ruthless Machiavellian behind the hype man.

[RHODEY]

Jazz fans like a deal of Rj/McBride/Fournier/Obi/2unprotected picks/3protected picks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I think I’d do it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Brunson/Drose
Dmitch/iQ
Cam/Grimes
Randle/?
Mitch/ihart

Spoiler:

[DOT]

I'm not against giving up RJ to get Mitchell

I'm just saying, if you do that, you're either doubling down on an already small backcourt by starting Grimes next to Brunson and Mitchell, or you're expecting Cam, who has not been consistent or healthy for 3 years, to become a consistent 3-D guy who plays most games. Dude has only played in more than 50 games 1 out of 3 seasons. It's a big gamble

Meanwhile RJ has shown the most of the 3, and did have success his 2nd year as a more tertiary option. I think he could fit in quite well with them, and for as much as some people complain, he's a solid enough defender, plus he has a lot of potential to improve as a scorer. I would rather keep him, especially when you consider that we're gonna be capped out regardless, so his extension wouldn't be that big of a deal once it happens.

[Jeff Van Gully]

it's ok. im holding an L on DSJ too. i actually saw him like 3 times over the summer in miami pro league. his jumper looks worse than ever. i've only seen him hit one jumper in 3 games.. hes gone to china or europe lol

i respect this.

Melo sold on DSJ in BAF years ago. If you watch him in that game you see the ruthless Machiavellian behind the hype man.

cold as ice

[Chanel Bomber]

A bad fit for what ?
That’s the point . He is the foundation. Him and RJ basically .
So bad fit for RJ?
Maybe not the man is averaging 24 ppg in his last half season as a knick

Man Stackhouse once averaged 29.8 points for the Pistons and they won a championship two years after he left.

NBA history is filled with 20 ppg chuckers on losing/average teams.

Stackhouse
Mashburn
Antoine Walker
Ricky Davis
Monta Ellis
Brandon Jennings
Jalen Rose
Antawn Jamison

Just a few names.

The issue with the Knicks is not the role players. It's their high-usage players. They're not good enough to be in that role. It's pretty obvious.

Not sure why you bring up Jerry stack house ,?
Who without even looking can tell you at 29.8 ppg was a superior player to current day Al Horford.

Because these players averaged 20 points per game and none of them really impacted winning in the high-usage role that allowed them to put up those numbers.

Detroit never went far with Stackhouse averaging close to 30. Two years after he left, they won a championship without a single player averaging 20.

The point is that 20+ PPG on high-volume doesn't necessarily mean much for winning.

Some of the players on that list actively hurt their team with their aggressive scoring.

[Capn'O]

i respect this.

Melo sold on DSJ in BAF years ago. If you watch him in that game you see the ruthless Machiavellian behind the hype man.

cold as ice

Sold Randle for JJJ too. Would sell his own mother. These are facts.

[3toheadmelo]

Melo sold on DSJ in BAF years ago. If you watch him in that game you see the ruthless Machiavellian behind the hype man.

cold as ice

Sold Randle for JJJ too. Would sell his own mother. These are facts.

[Chanel Bomber]

A bad fit for what ?
That’s the point . He is the foundation. Him and RJ basically .
So bad fit for RJ?
Maybe not the man is averaging 24 ppg in his last half season as a knick

Man Stackhouse once averaged 29.8 points for the Pistons and they won a championship two years after he left.

NBA history is filled with 20 ppg chuckers on losing/average teams.

Stackhouse
Mashburn
Antoine Walker
Ricky Davis
Monta Ellis
Brandon Jennings
Jalen Rose
Antawn Jamison

Just a few names.

The issue with the Knicks is not the role players. It's their high-usage players. They're not good enough to be in that role. It's pretty obvious.

interesting to see rj not listed here chanel, my disappointment is immeasurable and my day is ruined

I'm a gentleman.

[bearadonisdna]

Man Stackhouse once averaged 29.8 points for the Pistons and they won a championship two years after he left.

NBA history is filled with 20 ppg chuckers on losing/average teams.

Stackhouse
Mashburn
Antoine Walker
Ricky Davis
Monta Ellis
Brandon Jennings
Jalen Rose
Antawn Jamison

Just a few names.

The issue with the Knicks is not the role players. It's their high-usage players. They're not good enough to be in that role. It's pretty obvious.

Not sure why you bring up Jerry stack house ,?
Who without even looking can tell you at 29.8 ppg was a superior player to current day Al Horford.

Because these players averaged 20 points per game and none of them really impacted winning in the high-usage role that allowed them to put up those numbers.

Detroit never went far with Stackhouse averaging close to 30. Two years after he left, they won a championship without a single player averaging 20.

The point is that 20+ PPG on high-volume doesn't necessarily mean much for winning.

Some of the players on that list actively hurt their team with their aggressive scoring.

Dude I understand scoring, efficiency , context, I don’t need a lesson .
You’re trying to tell me Allstar Jerry stack house was a worse player than fringe starter al Horford .
Because efficiency or what .
League standards determined Stackhouse was an Allstar and in current day Horford is a supplemental role player .

[god shammgod]

true was right chanel....you should have listened lol

[AusKnicksTape]

wow....so this escalated quickly.

If they are including RJ then in my opinion it can't be more than 2 unprotected picks and we have to keep Obi and Grimes.

Also - i do think RJ will be an all-star at some point, so I don't like the deal at all and would much rather walk - but i figure it's not going to work that way

[bearadonisdna]

No wonder why Dolan have such hard time. You got dudes out here settling for 10 and D instead of all star production .

[Deeeez Knicks]

I agree but to be fair without Randle we don't make the playoffs in 2021 and so let's be honest that run was fun.

It was our only enjoyable season since 2013. It's almost a decade ago

yeah i just can't hate on a guy who gave us our best season since 2013. nobody has done this since prime melo. i'll always be grateful for it, unlike some miserable people here!

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It think it was moreso D-Rose though lol but yeah Randle was good that year and he helped put the Knicks back on the map - for a time. We can't take that for granted as Knicks fans

RJ was a part of that run and you guys hate on him all the time

[Capn'O]

cold as ice

Sold Randle for JJJ too. Would sell his own mother. These are facts.

Gets me every time

[Jeff Van Gully]

Randle is a bad fit...... period.

A bad fit for what ?
That’s the point . He is the foundation. Him and RJ basically .
So bad fit for RJ?
Maybe not the man is averaging 24 ppg in his last half season as a knick

Man Stackhouse once averaged 29.8 points for the Pistons and they won a championship two years after he left.

NBA history is filled with 20 ppg chuckers on losing/average teams.

Stackhouse
Mashburn
Antoine Walker
Ricky Davis
Monta Ellis
Brandon Jennings
Jalen Rose
Antawn Jamison

Just a few names.

The issue with the Knicks is not the role players. It's their high-usage players. They're not good enough to be in that role. It's pretty obvious.

we have invoked the name of ricky davis. you on some other ****.

i'm disappointed in the absence of larry hughes.

[ctorres]

I could see Danny Ainge trading for RJ Barrett, and then Danny Ainge trades RJ Barrett to another team for one or two unprotected first round picks (Lakers).

[god shammgod]

melo....he's a low down dirty ruthless vato.....but i like that

[KnicksGadfly]

No wonder why Dolan have such hard time. You got dudes out here settling for 10 and D instead of all star production .

We don't need Mitchell. We got RJ, easy 20 ppg. Randle easy 20 ppg. Brunson, okay, only 16 ppg, but close enough, he's only a B- player so gotta be patient with him. We gotta get rid of Mitch, maybe trade the 2023 Dallas 1st for Christian Wood, easy 20 ppg. Fournier solid 14 ppg.

20+20+16+20+14 = 90

Then we got Quickley and Rose, 20 ppg together, Obi 8 ppg easy. Hart 6 ppg. 20+8+6 = 34 ppg

124 ppg together, and we didn't even talk about Grimes or our 2022 draft pick yet!