#10 - Spida Thread - I hate sham

[mpharris36]

melo....he's a low down dirty ruthless vato.....but i like that

Hey I traded Frank too and won a chip...


but I did bring him back

[bearadonisdna]

A bad fit for what ?
That’s the point . He is the foundation. Him and RJ basically .
So bad fit for RJ?
Maybe not the man is averaging 24 ppg in his last half season as a knick

Man Stackhouse once averaged 29.8 points for the Pistons and they won a championship two years after he left.

NBA history is filled with 20 ppg chuckers on losing/average teams.

Stackhouse
Mashburn
Antoine Walker
Ricky Davis
Monta Ellis
Brandon Jennings
Jalen Rose
Antawn Jamison

Just a few names.

The issue with the Knicks is not the role players. It's their high-usage players. They're not good enough to be in that role. It's pretty obvious.

we have invoked the name of ricky davis. you on some other ****.

i'm disappointed in the absence of larry hughes.

Half the guys on the list are Allstar caliber players. That’s a bad argument when you’re acting like nba Allstar players aren’t good.
Jennings never averaged 20 ppg though

[Chanel Bomber]

Not sure why you bring up Jerry stack house ,?
Who without even looking can tell you at 29.8 ppg was a superior player to current day Al Horford.

Because these players averaged 20 points per game and none of them really impacted winning in the high-usage role that allowed them to put up those numbers.

Detroit never went far with Stackhouse averaging close to 30. Two years after he left, they won a championship without a single player averaging 20.

The point is that 20+ PPG on high-volume doesn't necessarily mean much for winning.

Some of the players on that list actively hurt their team with their aggressive scoring.

Dude I understand scoring, efficiency , context, I don’t need a lesson .
You’re trying to tell me Allstar Jerry stack house was a worse player than fringe starter al Horford .
Because efficiency or what .
League standards determined Stackhouse was an Allstar and in current day Horford is a supplemental role player .

I'm not giving you a lesson, you asked why, and I gave you my answer. It's my opinion.

I mentioned those players to illustrate my point, not necessarily to compare prime Stack (arguably the best of the bunch) to current-day Al Horford specifically.

My argument is that Horford last year was a better player than Randle last year. You mentioned production to make the case that Randle is a better player than Horford today. And my answer is that production at face value is meaningless if we don't consider efficiency (and in the case of this comparison, defense). I do think Randle is more talented.

I don't care much for All-Star recognition. It's not necessarily indicative of who the best players are.

[AusKnicksTape]

I need a beat report that confirms RJ is definitely off the table lol.

I read an earlier comment in this thread that said something to the effect of 'imagine if this was all a ploy to get Knicks fans OK with trading both Grimes and Toppin'

and you know what......it will work!

[evevale]

We are building the Utah Magic

We already have the Magic part down as currently constructed.

Utah? Well, they had more playoff appearances in the last 6 years than the Knicks franchise in the last 21 years. So at least they're an upgrade.

Even the Magic have more playoff appearances then the Knicks.

Jazz were a decent team, but fell short. The Melo Knicks were ok, but also pretty mediocre in general. True, better then most Knicks teams but ultimately I want to see us at least attempt to build a real contender and not aim for mediocrity. Maybe thats asking for too much.

you both deserve the washington kings

[Capn'O]

melo....he's a low down dirty ruthless vato.....but i like that

Hey I traded Frank too and won a chip...


but I did bring him back

Alas, if the highest BAF realm is to be my destiny will I too need to trade my own son?

[DaGawd]

yep.. if anything is happening it’s definitely gonna be in thread 11.. 13 pages and counting in 5 hours… jesus

[SelbyCobra]

Read on Twitter

[Chanel Bomber]

Man Stackhouse once averaged 29.8 points for the Pistons and they won a championship two years after he left.

NBA history is filled with 20 ppg chuckers on losing/average teams.

Stackhouse
Mashburn
Antoine Walker
Ricky Davis
Monta Ellis
Brandon Jennings
Jalen Rose
Antawn Jamison

Just a few names.

The issue with the Knicks is not the role players. It's their high-usage players. They're not good enough to be in that role. It's pretty obvious.

we have invoked the name of ricky davis. you on some other ****.

i'm disappointed in the absence of larry hughes.

Half the guys on the list are Allstar caliber players. That’s a bad argument when you’re acting like nba Allstar players aren’t good.
Jennings never averaged 20 ppg though

These players did not impact winning when they were given the usage to score 20 on high volume and low efficiency.

Some impacted winning in a lesser role, where they didn't have the usage to put up those numbers (e.g. Walker in Miami, Jalen Rose on the Pacers - though he wasn't the best example but I was thinking of him on the Bulls when I listed him).

All-Star is a perception-based award. Votes can often be driven by narratives. They often reward the best players, but not always. Case in point, Baron Davis was voted an All-Star over Chauncey Billups in 2004. My point is, I don't judge players based on that anymore.

Jennings averaged 19.1 points. You're right that he wasn't a 20 ppg scorer, but he fits the profile.

[mpharris36]

melo....he's a low down dirty ruthless vato.....but i like that

Hey I traded Frank too and won a chip...


but I did bring him back

Alas, if the highest BAF realm is to be my destiny will I too need to trade my own son?

[TheGreenArrow]

Read on Twitter

Makes total sense!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

No way they trade Rj Folksssssss no way!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[bearadonisdna]

Because these players averaged 20 points per game and none of them really impacted winning in the high-usage role that allowed them to put up those numbers.

Detroit never went far with Stackhouse averaging close to 30. Two years after he left, they won a championship without a single player averaging 20.

The point is that 20+ PPG on high-volume doesn't necessarily mean much for winning.

Some of the players on that list actively hurt their team with their aggressive scoring.

Dude I understand scoring, efficiency , context, I don’t need a lesson .
You’re trying to tell me Allstar Jerry stack house was a worse player than fringe starter al Horford .
Because efficiency or what .
League standards determined Stackhouse was an Allstar and in current day Horford is a supplemental role player .

I'm not giving you a lesson, you asked why, and I gave you my answer.

I mentioned those players to illustrate my point, not necessarily to compare prime Stack (arguably the best of the bunch) to current-day Al Horford specifically.

My argument is that Horford last year was a better player than Randle last year. You mentioned production to make the case that Randle is a better player than Horford today. And my answer is that production at face value is meaningless if we don't consider efficiency (and in the case of this comparison, defense). I do think Randle is more talented.

I don't care much for All-Star recognition. It's not necessarily indicative of who the best players are.

Ok I like that in discussions you don’t have a problem finding common ground when it’s there .
It allows us to move on to reals points of contention .
So let’s account for defense and efficiency in comparing Randle and Horford as players categorically .
Points
Rebs
Assists
Defense
Efficiency
Randle takes 3 out 5.
Really I try to stay away from conjecture but when you say that Julius is more talented , this is where I agree . The days of Horford leading any team in any major statistical category is very unlikely.

[mpharris36]

Read on Twitter

Makes total sense!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

No way they trade Rj Folksssssss no way!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sham I want my respect!

[Chanel Bomber]

yeah i just can't hate on a guy who gave us our best season since 2013. nobody has done this since prime melo. i'll always be grateful for it, unlike some miserable people here!

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It think it was moreso D-Rose though lol but yeah Randle was good that year and he helped put the Knicks back on the map - for a time. We can't take that for granted as Knicks fans

RJ was a part of that run and you guys hate on him all the time

That's exactly the point though, he was a role player on that team and he was an ok contributor.

That's the role in which he should be developed, not as a manufactured high-usage, low-efficiency 20 ppg scorer.

[bearadonisdna]

It think it was moreso D-Rose though lol but yeah Randle was good that year and he helped put the Knicks back on the map - for a time. We can't take that for granted as Knicks fans

RJ was a part of that run and you guys hate on him all the time

That's exactly the point though, he was a role player on that team and he was an ok contributor.

That's the role in which he should be developed, not as a manufactured high-usage, low-efficiency 20 ppg scorer.

His role is to be expanded while trying to fix the efficiency . We want more not less

[Jalen Bluntson]

Jesus

[Jimmit79]

It think it was moreso D-Rose though lol but yeah Randle was good that year and he helped put the Knicks back on the map - for a time. We can't take that for granted as Knicks fans

RJ was a part of that run and you guys hate on him all the time

That's exactly the point though, he was a role player on that team and he was an ok contributor.

That's the role in which he should be developed, not as a manufactured high-usage, low-efficiency 20 ppg scorer.

Keep it up chanel your doing lord's work we need to protect our great Knicks nation from the satanic robot and his worshippers.

[Chanel Bomber]

A bad fit for what ?
That’s the point . He is the foundation. Him and RJ basically .
So bad fit for RJ?
Maybe not the man is averaging 24 ppg in his last half season as a knick

Man Stackhouse once averaged 29.8 points for the Pistons and they won a championship two years after he left.

NBA history is filled with 20 ppg chuckers on losing/average teams.

Stackhouse
Mashburn
Antoine Walker
Ricky Davis
Monta Ellis
Brandon Jennings
Jalen Rose
Antawn Jamison

Just a few names.

The issue with the Knicks is not the role players. It's their high-usage players. They're not good enough to be in that role. It's pretty obvious.

we have invoked the name of ricky davis. you on some other ****.

i'm disappointed in the absence of larry hughes.

Oh Larry Hughes, great reference. I forgot about him. LeBron's Pippen

Ricky Davis is really the nuclear weapon in those conversations.

[3toheadmelo]

RJ was a part of that run and you guys hate on him all the time

That's exactly the point though, he was a role player on that team and he was an ok contributor.

That's the role in which he should be developed, not as a manufactured high-usage, low-efficiency 20 ppg scorer.

Keep it up chanel your doing lord's work we need to protect our great Knicks nation from the satanic robot and his worshippers.

Satanic robot

[Jalen Bluntson]

There's a Julius Randle thread. Go talk about that trash over there. No one gives a damn about him except a handful of Standles.