#10 - Spida Thread - I hate sham

[god shammgod]

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Makes total sense!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

No way they trade Rj Folksssssss no way!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sham I want my respect!

hard knicks life ??!?! this is whose word you're taking ? might as well go to green arrow for your sources

[nyk2017]

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/268407/Jaylen-Brown-Derrick-White-One-FRP-From-Celtics-Was-Best-Offer-Nets-Received-For-Kevin-Durant

The best offer the Nets were getting for a top 3 player in the NBA was Jaylen Brown (good player and barely an all star), a role player and a single FRP. Why are we giving up 3-4 unprotected FRPs, another 2 protected FRP and 1-2 young players for someone who is not even top 10 in the NBA?

[Clyde_Style]

This thread is mutating at an accelerated rate into sum kinda Akira-like bukkake thingy

[stitches]

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Makes total sense!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

No way they trade Rj Folksssssss no way!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

For whatever it's worth Andy Larsen(one of the most trustworthy Jazz insiders) said the same after that rumor appeared - this is not true. According to his sources the Jazz are not pushing for RJ Barrett because they don't want to be giving him a max deal right when they will be rebuilding.

[Deeeez Knicks]

It think it was moreso D-Rose though lol but yeah Randle was good that year and he helped put the Knicks back on the map - for a time. We can't take that for granted as Knicks fans

RJ was a part of that run and you guys hate on him all the time

That's exactly the point though, he was a role player on that team and he was an ok contributor.

That's the role in which he should be developed, not as a manufactured high-usage, low-efficiency 20 ppg scorer.

At least that settles the debate on whether RJ can accept being a role player on a winning team. Case closed.

[Chanel Bomber]

RJ was a part of that run and you guys hate on him all the time

That's exactly the point though, he was a role player on that team and he was an ok contributor.

That's the role in which he should be developed, not as a manufactured high-usage, low-efficiency 20 ppg scorer.

At least that settles the debate on whether RJ can accept being a role player on a winning team. Case closed.

Well not necessarily, because they have since expanded his role and allowed him to think of himself as a rising star.

It remains to be seen whether he's willing to accept a reduced role in a contract year and be a good soldier for the sake of winning.

[B8RcDeMktfxC]

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Makes total sense!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

No way they trade Rj Folksssssss no way!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

For whatever it's worth Andy Larsen(one of the most trustworthy Jazz insiders) said the same after that rumor appeared - this is not true. According to his sources the Jazz are not pushing for RJ Barrett because they don't want to be giving him a max deal right when they will be rebuilding.

The jazz having to think about RJ's extension makes absolutely zero sense and never did. Ofc, the Knicks should also snap Ainge's hand off if he did want RJ.

[Chanel Bomber]

Dude I understand scoring, efficiency , context, I don’t need a lesson .
You’re trying to tell me Allstar Jerry stack house was a worse player than fringe starter al Horford .
Because efficiency or what .
League standards determined Stackhouse was an Allstar and in current day Horford is a supplemental role player .

I'm not giving you a lesson, you asked why, and I gave you my answer.

I mentioned those players to illustrate my point, not necessarily to compare prime Stack (arguably the best of the bunch) to current-day Al Horford specifically.

My argument is that Horford last year was a better player than Randle last year. You mentioned production to make the case that Randle is a better player than Horford today. And my answer is that production at face value is meaningless if we don't consider efficiency (and in the case of this comparison, defense). I do think Randle is more talented.

I don't care much for All-Star recognition. It's not necessarily indicative of who the best players are.

Ok I like that in discussions you don’t have a problem finding common ground when it’s there .
It allows us to move on to reals points of contention .
So let’s account for defense and efficiency in comparing Randle and Horford as players categorically .
Points
Rebs
Assists
Defense
Efficiency
Randle takes 3 out 5.
Really I try to stay away from conjecture but when you say that Julius is more talented , this is where I agree . The days of Horford leading any team in any major statistical category is very unlikely.

Spoiler:

I don't view the game as an aggregation of statistical categories. I don't think it reflects the dynamics on the court.

Let's reset for a minute.

Randle and Horford played completely different roles last year, so they were not going to compete statistically anyway.

Randle is more talented, and more productive. Ok. But he's only more productive because he has a higher usage. The higher the usage, the more you're dictating the outcome of your team's possessions. And if you do it on low (abject in Randle's case) efficiency, the more inefficient your team's offense will become. Right?

Randle was horrible in his role last year. Horford was good in his, albeit a lesser role. But since Randle probably can't take on this high-usage role, can he take on a lesser role, and will he perform as well as Horford in that role? I personally doubt it.

Statistics like points and assists don't matter as much if you can't be efficient with a high usage because they will decrease with a reduction of your role. JVG mentioned Larry Hugues earlier and he went from averaging 22 ppg and 4.7 apg in Washington to 15.5 and 3.6 in Cleveland (on lower usage). That's my view.

[thebuzzardman]

Donovan Mitchell traded anywhere yet?

[Bob Ross]

The RJ thing def felt like a PR misdirect.

[VirginiaKnickFan]

Donovan Mitchell traded anywhere yet?

It's complicated for sure.

[Cappy_Smurf]

Sexton isn't coming close to getting the Cavs Mitchell though. That is really all the Knicks care about. Jazz can go ahead and trade Conley for Sexton if they want

There also isn't a player on the Knicks who is getting Mitchell. This is about unprotected picks. If New York is only offering 2 unprotected picks, the Cavs won't have trouble beating that.

[Capn'O]

Trading RJ made no sense to me. We wouldn't have a small forward.

[HEZI]

That's exactly the point though, he was a role player on that team and he was an ok contributor.

That's the role in which he should be developed, not as a manufactured high-usage, low-efficiency 20 ppg scorer.

At least that settles the debate on whether RJ can accept being a role player on a winning team. Case closed.

Well not necessarily, because they have since expanded his role and allowed him to think of himself as a rising star.

It remains to be seen whether he's willing to accept a reduced role in a contract year and be a good soldier for the sake of winning.

The difference between RJ 2 years ago and last year is a whopping 4% usage and less than 3 more shots per game. Yeah Knicks really overwhelmed him last year with that increased role

[DE FENSE]

14 pages already, you guys are insane. Or incredibly bored?

Spoiler:

Nah its both

[Capn'O]

Sexton isn't coming close to getting the Cavs Mitchell though. That is really all the Knicks care about. Jazz can go ahead and trade Conley for Sexton if they want

There also isn't a player on the Knicks who is getting Mitchell. This is about unprotected picks. If New York is only offering 2 unprotected picks, the Cavs won't have trouble beating that.

Yeah but the Cavs are also gonna be really good.

Game set match.

[Reign23]

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/268407/Jaylen-Brown-Derrick-White-One-FRP-From-Celtics-Was-Best-Offer-Nets-Received-For-Kevin-Durant

The best offer the Nets were getting for a top 3 player in the NBA was Jaylen Brown (good player and barely an all star), a role player and a single FRP. Why are we giving up 3-4 unprotected FRPs, another 2 protected FRP and 1-2 young players for someone who is not even top 10 in the NBA?

agree (except your view on Brown - he is a legit all star).
the minnesota **** timberwolves just screwed the entire trade market with their once in a decade overpay for Gobert.

[Oscirus]

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/268407/Jaylen-Brown-Derrick-White-One-FRP-From-Celtics-Was-Best-Offer-Nets-Received-For-Kevin-Durant

The best offer the Nets were getting for a top 3 player in the NBA was Jaylen Brown (good player and barely an all star), a role player and a single FRP. Why are we giving up 3-4 unprotected FRPs, another 2 protected FRP and 1-2 young players for someone who is not even top 10 in the NBA?

agree (except your view on Brown - he is a legit all star).
the minnesota **** timberwolves just screwed the entire trade market with their once in a decade overpay for Gobert.

Minnesota has teams looking for a herschell walker cowboys type payoff for their stars.

[HEZI]

RJ at 23% usage 14.7 shots per game = good role player on a winning team

RJ at 27% usage 17 shots per game = wanna be star on a bad team

Welp there we have it RJ is cemented in his role. Call it a career we’ve figured him out folks

[Madskillzz024]

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