#10 - Spida Thread - I hate sham

[spikeslovechild]

The trade is interesting because it lines up with a potential NYK deal. I mean if you have Brunson, Mitchell, and Rose you have zero interest in Beverly but THT and Stanley Johnson are different stories.

Ainge might be finding better pieces to line up with what the NYK need.

[HarthorneWingo]

There also isn't a player on the Knicks who is getting Mitchell. This is about unprotected picks. If New York is only offering 2 unprotected picks, the Cavs won't have trouble beating that.

You keep forgetting how this works.....IF the Cavs or another team matches or beats the Knicks current offer THEN the Knicks can raise it to beat that one....the Knicks don't have to raise their offer to beat an imaginary offer that doesn't exist.

That's usually how it works because all-stars are usually traded with one year left on their contract and the team trading them is against the clock to get something for them rather than lose them for nothing. They are also often dealing a player who has demanded to be traded.

Mitchell has 3 years years left on his deal and hasn't asked for a trade. Utah isn't dealing Mitchell to the highest bidder. They are doing the same thing they did with Gobert, which is dealing their player for what they consider an acceptable price. They have plenty of time to find a better deal if they don't like NY's offer. This fantasy that they are desperate to deal because they want to tank is purely that, a fantasy.

Nah.

[stuporman]

There also isn't a player on the Knicks who is getting Mitchell. This is about unprotected picks. If New York is only offering 2 unprotected picks, the Cavs won't have trouble beating that.

You keep forgetting how this works.....IF the Cavs or another team matches or beats the Knicks current offer THEN the Knicks can raise it to beat that one....the Knicks don't have to raise their offer to beat an imaginary offer that doesn't exist.

That's usually how it works because all-stars are usually traded with one year left on their contract and the team trading them is against the clock to get something for them rather than lose them for nothing. They are also often dealing a player who has demanded to be traded.

Mitchell has 3 years years left on his deal and hasn't asked for a trade. Utah isn't dealing Mitchell to the highest bidder. They are doing the same thing they did with Gobert, which is dealing their player for what they consider an acceptable price. They have plenty of time to find a better deal if they don't like NY's offer. This fantasy that they are desperate to deal because they want to tank is purely that, a fantasy.

The fantasy is you thinking market dynamics don't apply to the player your favorite team has because in your imagination you think it doesn't apply, it absolutely does apply. You can wait for 3 years for this imaginary offer and if it never shows up he leaves your imaginary ass and the franchise for nothing.

Along the way there is a considerable amount of risk that can devalue this asset dropping it even further away from this imaginary offer you think is going to drop out of the heavens while the clock ticks on this time cushion you have waiting for the imaginary offer that might never come.

There are way more scenarios where something can happen during that time that can devalue a player than there are scenarios of teams coming up with the fantastical package your GM thinks he can get. In the end the Knicks will have the last offer because they have what your GM wants.

You can't compare one player with another, one trade with another or one team with another and expect to get an exact duplication of value. No matter how desperately you want to do that this isn't how markets work, all the variables change and those change the conditions of the market.

You saying what you think it should be on a forum doesn't actually change what it is and occasionally you will run into someone as observant as me who will let you know your imagination doesn't make it reality....this isn't 'the secret'. So good luck with waiting for your fantasy offer.

[HarthorneWingo]

You keep forgetting how this works.....IF the Cavs or another team matches or beats the Knicks current offer THEN the Knicks can raise it to beat that one....the Knicks don't have to raise their offer to beat an imaginary offer that doesn't exist.

That's usually how it works because all-stars are usually traded with one year left on their contract and the team trading them is against the clock to get something for them rather than lose them for nothing. They are also often dealing a player who has demanded to be traded.

Mitchell has 3 years years left on his deal and hasn't asked for a trade. Utah isn't dealing Mitchell to the highest bidder. They are doing the same thing they did with Gobert, which is dealing their player for what they consider an acceptable price. They have plenty of time to find a better deal if they don't like NY's offer. This fantasy that they are desperate to deal because they want to tank is purely that, a fantasy.

The fantasy is you thinking market dynamics don't apply to the player your favorite team has because in your imagination you think it doesn't apply, it absolutely does apply. You can wait for 3 years for this imaginary offer and if it never shows up he leaves your imaginary ass and the franchise for nothing.

Along the way there is a considerable amount of risk that can devalue this asset dropping it even further away from this imaginary offer you think is going to drop out of the heavens while the clock ticks on this time cushion you have waiting for the imaginary offer that might never come.

There are way more scenarios where something can happen during that time that can devalue a player than there are scenarios of teams coming up with the fantastical package your GM thinks he can get. In the end the Knicks will have the last offer because they have what your GM wants.

You can't compare one player with another, one trade with another or one team with another and expect to get an exact duplication of value. No matter how desperately you want to do that this isn't how markets work, all the variables change and those change the conditions of the market.

You saying what you think it should be on a forum doesn't actually change what it is and occasionally you will run into someone as observant as me who will let you know your imagination doesn't make it reality....this isn't 'the secret'. So good luck with waiting for your fantasy offer.

Imagine if Mitchell gets injured this season while still on Utah's roster?

[ctorres]

The trade is interesting because it lines up with a potential NYK deal. I mean if you have Brunson, Mitchell, and Rose you have zero interest in Beverly but THT and Stanley Johnson are different stories.

Ainge might be finding better pieces to line up with what the NYK need.

Grimes is a better fit alongside THT than RJ

THT makes sense for the Jazz if they want to develop him and lose games at the same time.

It would be a terrible situation for RJ if he has to share the ball with THT and also lose a bunch of games.

At least playing with Brunson and Donovan, they're the type of guys who are worth it for RJ to adjust his game for.

[thebuzzardman]

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And it begins!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I thought Beverly couldn't be traded yet?

Or, they are allowed to work out the details but not execute the trade until Sept 06?

[thebuzzardman]

The trade is interesting because it lines up with a potential NYK deal. I mean if you have Brunson, Mitchell, and Rose you have zero interest in Beverly but THT and Stanley Johnson are different stories.

Ainge might be finding better pieces to line up with what the NYK need.

Wouldn't THT - let's pretend the Knicks want him or Stanley Johnson - wouldn't THT have to be traded separately to the Knicks IF the Jazz acquired him on his own?

Or do I have it completely wrong.

[thebuzzardman]

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what would the pacers involvement be? that doesn't make any sense because they want to move hield and turner and the knicks and jazz have no use for either one of them.

Pacers and Jazz would be competing over the same caucasians in any trade and not sure each team in any 4 team trade has enough to satisfy just the Jazz, no less the Pacers.

Don't see a fit.

Is Scoop thinking of the Suns in a 3 team? The Lakers in a 4 way trade?
Is Scoop thinking at all? Doubtful.

[Juco24]

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[B8RcDeMktfxC]

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And it begins!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I thought Beverly couldn't be traded yet?

Or, they are allowed to work out the details but not execute the trade until Sept 06?

The latter.

[thebuzzardman]

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"feel"


This mofo just one of us with a Twitter account and a dumb nickname

[thebuzzardman]

Knicks getting Myles Turner!

[thebuzzardman]

Welp, Beverly tweeted out, what, a week ago, that he was looking forward to the Lakers-Clippers game, so he kind of leaked trade was going to happen. I figure it was probably pretty serious even then and it was just details being worked out.

Scoop isn't completely wrong in his conjecture, but still feels like guessing.

The Durant "no trade" unlocked other stuff
Camp is getting closer
Ainge was always looking to flip Beverly

Now that the Lakers have a backup PG, figure they'll look to move Westbrook.
Logically, I'd say Pacers where it's Westbrook, 2 picks for Turner/Heild.

So much for the rumors that Knicks were interested in players from the Jazz/Twolves trade.
That always felt kind of dumb, though I also bought that Rosas might want Beverly...

Doubt Randle is being moved. MAYBE Phoenix.

Knicks and Jazz Mitchell trade? Who knows.

[Chanel Bomber]

This sets up the RJ-Obi-Grimes for Westbrook trade perfectly.

Let's gooooooo

[god shammgod]

if ainge is willing to take on tucker's salary, sounds like he might be willing to pay rj.....stay tuned lol

[Rooster8]

Good to see a little trade action first thing in the a.m!

[DaGawd]

watch ainge just decide to salary dump mitchell for westbrook lol

[god shammgod]

i wonder what happens to russ. does anyone pick him up after indy cuts him ? he might be out of the league.

[nyknicks8016]

i wonder what happens to russ. does anyone pick him up after indy cuts him ? he might be out of the league.

If he was willing to be a heater off the bench, like Drose with the Knicks, he would be a great fit on a championship team, but there is no reason to believe he would be willing to do that

[Kampuchea]

i wonder what happens to russ. does anyone pick him up after indy cuts him ? he might be out of the league.

If he was willing to be a heater off the bench, like Drose with the Knicks, he would be a great fit on a championship team, but there is no reason to believe he would be willing to do that

Not sure he would be a great fit. On offense he is high volume and low efficiency. He isn't a good defender.

D Rose is a better player right now because D Rose can be an offense contributor, has developed an outside shot, and doesn't demand the high usage that Westbrook does.