Better player, 14-22 Steph vs 81-88 Bird

Moderators: Clyde Frazier, Doctor MJ, trex_8063, penbeast0, PaulieWal

Who was better?

14-22 Steph
18
43%
81-88 Bird
24
57%
 
Total votes: 42

Cavsfansince84
RealGM
Posts: 14,929
And1: 11,422
Joined: Jun 13, 2017
   

Better player, 14-22 Steph vs 81-88 Bird 

Post#1 » by Cavsfansince84 » Sun Aug 28, 2022 5:07 am

Adding a year to Steph since he missed 2020. Which player was better or more dominant within their respective era in the given years?
HeartBreakKid
RealGM
Posts: 22,395
And1: 18,828
Joined: Mar 08, 2012
     

Re: Better player, 14-22 Steph vs 81-88 Bird 

Post#2 » by HeartBreakKid » Sun Aug 28, 2022 7:19 am

Bird because he made the NBA popular. If it wasn't for him Steph Curry would be playing Ice Hockey.

Then again, if it wasn't for Steph Curry, there is no way I'd be wearing Under Armor (well, I don't wear it anyway, but I'm sure some people do).

Steph Curry was also the first Warrior to sweep the Nickelodeon Kids' Choice Awards. Maybe this is harder than I thought.
Stalwart
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,839
And1: 959
Joined: Jun 06, 2021

Re: Better player, 14-22 Steph vs 81-88 Bird 

Post#3 » by Stalwart » Sun Aug 28, 2022 8:06 am

Two transcendent game changers. Can't go wrog either way.
User avatar
Jaivl
Head Coach
Posts: 7,049
And1: 6,711
Joined: Jan 28, 2014
Location: A Coruña, Spain
Contact:
   

Re: Better player, 14-22 Steph vs 81-88 Bird 

Post#4 » by Jaivl » Sun Aug 28, 2022 1:49 pm

As in the Duncan thread, I'm going Bird, again.

Can't really offer a reason why, it's close enough as to be decided by small fluctuations in perception.
This place is a cesspool of mindless ineptitude, mental decrepitude, and intellectual lassitude. I refuse to be sucked any deeper into this whirlpool of groupthink sewage. My opinions have been expressed. I'm going to go take a shower.
Cavsfansince84
RealGM
Posts: 14,929
And1: 11,422
Joined: Jun 13, 2017
   

Re: Better player, 14-22 Steph vs 81-88 Bird 

Post#5 » by Cavsfansince84 » Sun Aug 28, 2022 7:53 pm

HeartBreakKid wrote:Bird because he made the NBA popular. If it wasn't for him Steph Curry would be playing Ice Hockey.

Then again, if it wasn't for Steph Curry, there is no way I'd be wearing Under Armor (well, I don't wear it anyway, but I'm sure some people do).

Steph Curry was also the first Warrior to sweep the Nickelodeon Kids' Choice Awards. Maybe this is harder than I thought.


I can respect what Bird brought in terms of his affect on the league but I really wanted the primary focus for this thread just to be on court ability. Not anything else in terms of legacy or how they might have changed the league.
User avatar
homecourtloss
RealGM
Posts: 11,386
And1: 18,783
Joined: Dec 29, 2012

Re: Better player, 14-22 Steph vs 81-88 Bird 

Post#6 » by homecourtloss » Sun Aug 28, 2022 8:22 pm

Cavsfansince84 wrote:
HeartBreakKid wrote:Bird because he made the NBA popular. If it wasn't for him Steph Curry would be playing Ice Hockey.

Then again, if it wasn't for Steph Curry, there is no way I'd be wearing Under Armor (well, I don't wear it anyway, but I'm sure some people do).

Steph Curry was also the first Warrior to sweep the Nickelodeon Kids' Choice Awards. Maybe this is harder than I thought.


I can respect what Bird brought in terms of his affect on the league but I really wanted the primary focus for this thread just to be on court ability. Not anything else in terms of legacy or how they might have changed the league.


His post is satire of other posts.
lessthanjake wrote:Kyrie was extremely impactful without LeBron, and basically had zero impact whatsoever if LeBron was on the court.

lessthanjake wrote: By playing in a way that prevents Kyrie from getting much impact, LeBron ensures that controlling for Kyrie has limited effect…
User avatar
eminence
RealGM
Posts: 16,933
And1: 11,749
Joined: Mar 07, 2015

Re: Better player, 14-22 Steph vs 81-88 Bird 

Post#7 » by eminence » Sun Aug 28, 2022 8:38 pm

I think I'd go Steph by a hair here. I quite like Bird defensively, and do think his offense would be even more effective in a more modern game, but still behind Steph. I think Steph was more consistent over this period, with Bird being further from the offensive force he'd later become when he first came into the league than Curry was in '15 at least (maybe more even with '14).

Don't think you can go wrong either way.
I bought a boat.
1993Playoffs
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,087
And1: 4,247
Joined: Apr 25, 2017

Re: Better player, 14-22 Steph vs 81-88 Bird 

Post#8 » by 1993Playoffs » Sun Aug 28, 2022 9:02 pm

Very close , Bird for now , I need to see about two more seasons at this current level from Steph. To give him the edge over Bird in my top 10

I think Steph is slightly better offensively
tsherkin
Forum Mod - Raptors
Forum Mod - Raptors
Posts: 92,127
And1: 31,713
Joined: Oct 14, 2003
 

Re: Better player, 14-22 Steph vs 81-88 Bird 

Post#9 » by tsherkin » Sun Aug 28, 2022 10:43 pm

Tough call. Gonna go with Steph, but not an easy call.
euroleague
General Manager
Posts: 8,448
And1: 1,871
Joined: Mar 26, 2014
 

Re: Better player, 14-22 Steph vs 81-88 Bird 

Post#10 » by euroleague » Mon Aug 29, 2022 3:23 am

Bird won 3 rings as the undisputed best guy on his team. Steph has won 2, and both of those were heavily influenced by other teams' injuries.

Bird was an elite Power-Foward, who didn't play with the best teammates to show his skills. It didn't matter - he changed position to SF, changed his play to outside-in, and dominated anyways.

Curry without the perfect system has not been nearly as effective. The Golden State TEAM has been better than the Celtics were, particularly with Durant. Curry vs Bird though? Doesn't seem that close to me in favor of Bird.

Bird from 84-86 was indisputably the best player in the league. Curry only was in 2016.
LukaTheGOAT
Analyst
Posts: 3,263
And1: 2,973
Joined: Dec 25, 2019
 

Re: Better player, 14-22 Steph vs 81-88 Bird 

Post#11 » by LukaTheGOAT » Mon Aug 29, 2022 8:17 am

Evaluating Bird is so hard for me.

I think there is an argument that every year from 81-83 is below Curry's 14 season honestly, though it really depends on how I feel about Bird's defense from time to time.

Bird legitimately averaged in the PS those years an Inflation Adjusted 19.1 pts/75 possessions on a rTS% of -1.6%. I don't know if I love Bird as an offensive hub those years...yet in 84 he explodes with some truly all-time level stuff and I start to wonder if his sickness in 83 covered what could have been a glimpse into him becoming a real stud. It almost shouldn't be possible for Bird to make the leap he did from 83 to 84, but if we take the numbers at face value, he did.
Stalwart
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,839
And1: 959
Joined: Jun 06, 2021

Re: Better player, 14-22 Steph vs 81-88 Bird 

Post#12 » by Stalwart » Mon Aug 29, 2022 8:23 am

homecourtloss wrote:
Cavsfansince84 wrote:
HeartBreakKid wrote:Bird because he made the NBA popular. If it wasn't for him Steph Curry would be playing Ice Hockey.

Then again, if it wasn't for Steph Curry, there is no way I'd be wearing Under Armor (well, I don't wear it anyway, but I'm sure some people do).

Steph Curry was also the first Warrior to sweep the Nickelodeon Kids' Choice Awards. Maybe this is harder than I thought.


I can respect what Bird brought in terms of his affect on the league but I really wanted the primary focus for this thread just to be on court ability. Not anything else in terms of legacy or how they might have changed the league.


His post is satire of other posts.


Its also a misrepresentation of other posts.
PhiEaglesfan712
Freshman
Posts: 84
And1: 25
Joined: Apr 11, 2022
     

Re: Better player, 14-22 Steph vs 81-88 Bird 

Post#13 » by PhiEaglesfan712 » Sat Sep 3, 2022 12:23 pm

This one is close, but I think the 2022 title puts Steph ahead of Bird.
HeartBreakKid
RealGM
Posts: 22,395
And1: 18,828
Joined: Mar 08, 2012
     

Re: Better player, 14-22 Steph vs 81-88 Bird 

Post#14 » by HeartBreakKid » Sat Sep 3, 2022 1:16 pm

euroleague wrote:Bird won 3 rings as the undisputed best guy on his team. Steph has won 2, and both of those were heavily influenced by other teams' injuries.

Bird was an elite Power-Foward, who didn't play with the best teammates to show his skills. It didn't matter - he changed position to SF, changed his play to outside-in, and dominated anyways.

Curry without the perfect system has not been nearly as effective. The Golden State TEAM has been better than the Celtics were, particularly with Durant. Curry vs Bird though? Doesn't seem that close to me in favor of Bird.

Bird from 84-86 was indisputably the best player in the league. Curry only was in 2016.


I don't think the 2022 Warriors run was "heavily" influenced by the other teams injuries. I can't even think of serious injuries to any of the threats to GSW off the top of my head.
User avatar
CharityStripe34
General Manager
Posts: 9,508
And1: 6,400
Joined: Dec 01, 2014
     

Re: Better player, 14-22 Steph vs 81-88 Bird 

Post#15 » by CharityStripe34 » Sat Sep 3, 2022 1:32 pm

HeartBreakKid wrote:
euroleague wrote:Bird won 3 rings as the undisputed best guy on his team. Steph has won 2, and both of those were heavily influenced by other teams' injuries.

Bird was an elite Power-Foward, who didn't play with the best teammates to show his skills. It didn't matter - he changed position to SF, changed his play to outside-in, and dominated anyways.

Curry without the perfect system has not been nearly as effective. The Golden State TEAM has been better than the Celtics were, particularly with Durant. Curry vs Bird though? Doesn't seem that close to me in favor of Bird.

Bird from 84-86 was indisputably the best player in the league. Curry only was in 2016.


I don't think the 2022 Warriors run was "heavily" influenced by the other teams injuries. I can't even think of serious injuries to any of the threats to GSW off the top of my head.


Murray and Porter were missing for Denver. And Ja got hurt in the Memphis series, if I remember.

Anyway, I'd go Bird in this specific time period that the OP posited. The elite passing, the shooting, the underrated positional defense, etc. Both were great for different reasons.
"Wes, Hill, Ibaka, Allen, Nwora, Brook, Pat, Ingles, Khris are all slow-mo, injury prone ... a sandcastle waiting for playoff wave to get wrecked. A castle with no long-range archers... is destined to fall. That is all I have to say."-- FOTIS
HeartBreakKid
RealGM
Posts: 22,395
And1: 18,828
Joined: Mar 08, 2012
     

Re: Better player, 14-22 Steph vs 81-88 Bird 

Post#16 » by HeartBreakKid » Sat Sep 3, 2022 1:59 pm

CharityStripe34 wrote:
HeartBreakKid wrote:
euroleague wrote:Bird won 3 rings as the undisputed best guy on his team. Steph has won 2, and both of those were heavily influenced by other teams' injuries.

Bird was an elite Power-Foward, who didn't play with the best teammates to show his skills. It didn't matter - he changed position to SF, changed his play to outside-in, and dominated anyways.

Curry without the perfect system has not been nearly as effective. The Golden State TEAM has been better than the Celtics were, particularly with Durant. Curry vs Bird though? Doesn't seem that close to me in favor of Bird.

Bird from 84-86 was indisputably the best player in the league. Curry only was in 2016.


I don't think the 2022 Warriors run was "heavily" influenced by the other teams injuries. I can't even think of serious injuries to any of the threats to GSW off the top of my head.


Murray and Porter were missing for Denver. And Ja got hurt in the Memphis series, if I remember.

Anyway, I'd go Bird in this specific time period that the OP posited. The elite passing, the shooting, the underrated positional defense, etc. Both were great for different reasons.



Murray and Porter barely played that season in general. They would not have even faced GSW in the first round if they had been on the roster.
euroleague
General Manager
Posts: 8,448
And1: 1,871
Joined: Mar 26, 2014
 

Re: Better player, 14-22 Steph vs 81-88 Bird 

Post#17 » by euroleague » Sat Sep 3, 2022 7:49 pm

HeartBreakKid wrote:
euroleague wrote:Bird won 3 rings as the undisputed best guy on his team. Steph has won 2, and both of those were heavily influenced by other teams' injuries.

Bird was an elite Power-Foward, who didn't play with the best teammates to show his skills. It didn't matter - he changed position to SF, changed his play to outside-in, and dominated anyways.

Curry without the perfect system has not been nearly as effective. The Golden State TEAM has been better than the Celtics were, particularly with Durant. Curry vs Bird though? Doesn't seem that close to me in favor of Bird.

Bird from 84-86 was indisputably the best player in the league. Curry only was in 2016.


I don't think the 2022 Warriors run was "heavily" influenced by the other teams injuries. I can't even think of serious injuries to any of the threats to GSW off the top of my head.


Namely Khris Middleton, the second best player on the defending champs. Bucks almost advanced without him, but he's a pretty huge part of their team.

Ja Morant, Jamal Murray, Michael Porter Jr, etc. as well.
SNPA
General Manager
Posts: 9,053
And1: 8,388
Joined: Apr 15, 2020

Re: Better player, 14-22 Steph vs 81-88 Bird 

Post#18 » by SNPA » Sat Sep 3, 2022 9:19 pm

Bird. Defense matters. Better all around game. GOAT level passer. More killer too.
Colbinii
RealGM
Posts: 34,243
And1: 21,854
Joined: Feb 13, 2013

Re: Better player, 14-22 Steph vs 81-88 Bird 

Post#19 » by Colbinii » Sun Sep 4, 2022 2:11 am

Stalwart wrote:
homecourtloss wrote:
Cavsfansince84 wrote:
I can respect what Bird brought in terms of his affect on the league but I really wanted the primary focus for this thread just to be on court ability. Not anything else in terms of legacy or how they might have changed the league.


His post is satire of other posts.


Its also a misrepresentation of other posts.


That hasn't stopped you before.
iggymcfrack
RealGM
Posts: 11,752
And1: 9,247
Joined: Sep 26, 2017

Re: Better player, 14-22 Steph vs 81-88 Bird 

Post#20 » by iggymcfrack » Sun Sep 4, 2022 6:13 am

euroleague wrote:Bird won 3 rings as the undisputed best guy on his team. Steph has won 2, and both of those were heavily influenced by other teams' injuries.

Bird was an elite Power-Foward, who didn't play with the best teammates to show his skills. It didn't matter - he changed position to SF, changed his play to outside-in, and dominated anyways.

Curry without the perfect system has not been nearly as effective. The Golden State TEAM has been better than the Celtics were, particularly with Durant. Curry vs Bird though? Doesn't seem that close to me in favor of Bird.

Bird from 84-86 was indisputably the best player in the league. Curry only was in 2016.


Curry won 4 titles as the best player. Who cares if someone wants to "dispute" it? Here's the on/off numbers for Curry and Durant in 2017 and 2018:

Curry: +15.2 (regular season), +12.5 (playoffs)
Durant: +5.1 (regular season), +8.5 (playoffs)

You're giving Bird credit for a much less impressive season leading to a title in 1981 even though you could just as easily argue that Cornbread was actually the best player on that team as you could argue Durant was better than Curry. Then you do the same thing with "indisputably" the best player in the league. What's indisputable? 1/3 of the people in the Retro POY project here voted Magic as the best player in '85. Seems like you're using weird random criteria to determine who was better when the truth is that they were similar average defenders and Steph had a much larger impact on the offensive end of the floor due to his superior scoring, shooting, and gravity with only a slight edge to Bird for his passing.

Return to Player Comparisons