Eurobasket 2022 (daily OP updates), day 11, all quarter finals teams known, Italy shocks Europe, eliminates Serbia

[SpreeS]

Luka looks fat again

We had two fatties last season (Harden and Doncic). One put in a lot of work into get in shape, other....

[wco81]

The commentary in Europe for any sport is so much better then in a America.

Everything is better, except for the players.

Rules and refs make more sense, you don't have to wait for 1,000 regular season games to finish before you can see all the teams and players actively trying their best to win, crowds are interested in the game instead of eating nachos and taking selfies, there are not so many ads and breaks in the game, coaches are actually allowed to coach and say what they think, etc etc

Only reason I bother to follow the NBA is because all the good players have left Europe. For me, other than having the best players in the world, the NBA is a crappy league.

Reason why the NBA has the best players is money.

Reason why NBA Has tHe most money is the best players and play so many regular season games. And the US has the fan base to support all these games which means a lot of casual fans, a lot of families bringing even little children to games, making them fans from a very
young age.

A lot of the best players in the NBA were fans as little kids.

I haven’t watch Euro or FIBA much buT there’s no way European coaches have some strategic advantage over the NBA. For one thing, a lot of Euro coaches are in the NBA as assistants or apprentice under coaches like Popovich.

And if you tHink the NBA is only about athletic freaks and individual ability with little tactical innovation, then you really underestimate
the NBA.

[Pachinko_]

Reason why the NBA has the best players is money.

Reason why NBA Has tHe most money is the best players and play so many regular season games. And the US has the fan base to support all these games which means a lot of casual fans, a lot of families bringing even little children to games, making them fans from a very
young age.

A lot of the best players in the NBA were fans as little kids.

I haven’t watch Euro or FIBA much buT there’s no way European coaches have some strategic advantage over the NBA. For one thing, a lot of Euro coaches are in the NBA as assistants or apprentice under coaches like Popovich.

And if you tHink the NBA is only about athletic freaks and individual ability with little tactical innovation, then you really underestimate
the NBA.

Yeah. It still sucks.

You don't believe me? Take the average NBA fan on this forum: Everybody has something nasty to say about the League, the commissar, the refs, the media, the player's managers. Fans don't even trust the owners and the management of their own teams, and they constantly think their star player, if they have one, is in some conspiracy to force his way out. People get angry because they paid for an expensive ticket and the key player took the game off (or the whole year off), they get angry because their team is tanking when it shouldn't be tanking, or is not tanking when it should be tanking, then they get angry because they are one of the 29 teams that failed and didn't win, and ultimately they get angry because that's what the NBA does, it makes basketball fans angry.

That's what I see anyway, I hope you're having a better experience

[wco81]

Yeah on the Warriors board there are self appointed geniuses talking a lot of trash about the brain trust which led the franchise to 4 titles and one of the best records in a 4-year period.

Yet all last season these Real GM keyboard warriors were screaming for firing Myers, Kerr while the team raced out to like a 20-4 record and then suffered a lull from key injuries bEfore finally winning the chip.

And these guys were back at it, wHining about tHe draft and free agency.

Opinions on RGM are not representative of the fan base and there are too many who think they know the sport better than professionals who have actual winning track records.

So the discontent you cite on RGM is meaningless. Lot of whiners motivated to post than a reflection of some insight into the state of the NBA game.

Sure some fans hAte tHe pace and space game their team is lousy at it or they have nostalgia for the ‘90s

[Swuul]

For one thing, a lot of Euro coaches are in the NBA as assistants or apprentice under coaches like Popovich.

That, however just proves the xenophobia in USA pro-sports. For years in ice-hockey the best coaches have come from Europe, but how many European head-coaches have we seen in the NHL? I wouldn't say the quality of European coaches in basketball is comparable to the ice-hockey situation, but there sure are in Europe coaches who are better than the barrel-bottom american coaches in some of the NBA teams.

[Pachinko_]

Sure some fans hAte tHe pace and space game their team is lousy at it or they have nostalgia for the ‘90s

Oh yeah I forgot to put that on my list.

[dirkdiggler4177]

Germany doubled and at times even tripled Luka, and rest of Team Slovenia seemed to be unable to adjust to the fact they had lots and lots of free space (seemingly they thought Luka will handle it anyway, putting their hands in the pockets and waiting Luka to do some magic). It didn't help Luka very clearly got frustrated at the refs, at his team-mates, at the opposing players, etc.

I wouldn't really call that double and triple teaming. They had Luka's man essentially overplay him at the three point line while the help defenders sagged off their men and made sure to crowd the paint at all times, similar to what the Tom Tibadough (yea too lazy to look up the spelling) Bulls used to do against LBJ, but of course without the defensive three seconds rule. It worked really well for them, as you said, cause the other Slovenians weren't making shots.

Yeah. You just don't win at this level when through 3 quarters Jonas Wolfahrt-Bottermann had more points than Goran and Zoran Dragic combined. There was zero support for Luka except for a pick and roll play with Tobey here and there.
And with the emergence of Dennis Schröder in the second half (was scoreless at halftime) the game was over.

I always said that if the players are making the shots Luka is making for them, they win. If not, it will be close.

[GSWFan1994]

Another good game by Kuminga:

Watch on YouTube

[davidfr94]

Welp, these games are over... Now hoping Nothinham forest scores against Tottenham (OT)

Man that assist from richarlison was just pure beauty

Sent from my Redmi Note 8T using RealGM mobile app

[wco81]

For one thing, a lot of Euro coaches are in the NBA as assistants or apprentice under coaches like Popovich.

That, however just proves the xenophobia in USA pro-sports. For years in ice-hockey the best coaches have come from Europe, but how many European head-coaches have we seen in the NHL? I wouldn't say the quality of European coaches in basketball is comparable to the ice-hockey situation, but there sure are in Europe coaches who are better than the barrel-bottom american coaches in some of the NBA teams.

They may be better but how are they with English?

And communicating with black players, something that even some American coaches struggle with?


It's not like England hiring Fabio Cappello as manager of the English National Team because of his knowledge of the game made up for the fact that he didn't speak English. That experiment failed and one of the reasons was that he couldn't communicate with the UK media or maybe with the players well enough.

In any event, why should an NBA team hire a coach without any NBA experience? You can say the European game is good but NBA head coaches now get about 5-year $25 million deals. So the inclination is going to be to hire someone with NBA experience.

[Ruma85]

For one thing, a lot of Euro coaches are in the NBA as assistants or apprentice under coaches like Popovich.

That, however just proves the xenophobia in USA pro-sports. For years in ice-hockey the best coaches have come from Europe, but how many European head-coaches have we seen in the NHL? I wouldn't say the quality of European coaches in basketball is comparable to the ice-hockey situation, but there sure are in Europe coaches who are better than the barrel-bottom american coaches in some of the NBA teams.

They may be better but how are they with English?

And communicating with black players, something that even some American coaches struggle with?


It's not like England hiring Fabio Cappello as manager of the English National Team because of his knowledge of the game made up for the fact that he didn't speak English. That experiment failed and one of the reasons was that he couldn't communicate with the UK media or maybe with the players well enough.

In any event, why should an NBA team hire a coach without any NBA experience? You can say the European game is good but NBA head coaches now get about 5-year $25 million deals. So the inclination is going to be to hire someone with NBA experience.

Fair point, but you cannot get nba experience if you don’t get a chance to coach, The communicating with players or per se black players as you say that even American coaches struggle with, that’s also on the players, they need to be willing to buy in, otherwise it would never work.

[lambchop]

That, however just proves the xenophobia in USA pro-sports. For years in ice-hockey the best coaches have come from Europe, but how many European head-coaches have we seen in the NHL? I wouldn't say the quality of European coaches in basketball is comparable to the ice-hockey situation, but there sure are in Europe coaches who are better than the barrel-bottom american coaches in some of the NBA teams.

They may be better but how are they with English?

And communicating with black players, something that even some American coaches struggle with?


It's not like England hiring Fabio Cappello as manager of the English National Team because of his knowledge of the game made up for the fact that he didn't speak English. That experiment failed and one of the reasons was that he couldn't communicate with the UK media or maybe with the players well enough.

In any event, why should an NBA team hire a coach without any NBA experience? You can say the European game is good but NBA head coaches now get about 5-year $25 million deals. So the inclination is going to be to hire someone with NBA experience.

Fair point, but you cannot get nba experience if you don’t get a chance to coach, The communicating with players or per se black players as you say that even American coaches struggle with, that’s also on the players, they need to be willing to buy in, otherwise it would never work.

Yea this all makes sense but players aren't going to buy in to help a random coach establish himself in the NBA.

That David Blatt play when the caves were down 2-1 is a prime example. You can't draw up a play for Matthew dellavedova with a top 10 player's legacy in LBJ on the line. That's just not how the NBA works.

[Pachinko_]

For one thing, a lot of Euro coaches are in the NBA as assistants or apprentice under coaches like Popovich.

That, however just proves the xenophobia in USA pro-sports. For years in ice-hockey the best coaches have come from Europe, but how many European head-coaches have we seen in the NHL? I wouldn't say the quality of European coaches in basketball is comparable to the ice-hockey situation, but there sure are in Europe coaches who are better than the barrel-bottom american coaches in some of the NBA teams.

They may be better but how are they with English?

And communicating with black players, something that even some American coaches struggle with?


It's not like England hiring Fabio Cappello as manager of the English National Team because of his knowledge of the game made up for the fact that he didn't speak English. That experiment failed and one of the reasons was that he couldn't communicate with the UK media or maybe with the players well enough.

In any event, why should an NBA team hire a coach without any NBA experience? You can say the European game is good but NBA head coaches now get about 5-year $25 million deals. So the inclination is going to be to hire someone with NBA experience.

I don't know, how easy is it for a teenager from Slovenia or Serbia with crap English to communicate with black players in the NBA?
Why should an NBA team hire a teenager like Doncic or Jokic from Europe without any NBA experience?
Why did a professional basketball team in Moscow hire a Greek coach to communicate with Russian players?
The answer is always the same: talent. It's the only thing that matters and everybody knows it, the NBA knows it better than anybody. For every Fabo Capello that failed there's a dozen others that didn't.

Please explain to me how is it that the best players in the world are international, but the NBA believes only Americans coaches are talented. It's BS my man, the NBA is run by friends of friends, that's all, the rest is excuses.

[Michael Jackson]

That, however just proves the xenophobia in USA pro-sports. For years in ice-hockey the best coaches have come from Europe, but how many European head-coaches have we seen in the NHL? I wouldn't say the quality of European coaches in basketball is comparable to the ice-hockey situation, but there sure are in Europe coaches who are better than the barrel-bottom american coaches in some of the NBA teams.

They may be better but how are they with English?

And communicating with black players, something that even some American coaches struggle with?


It's not like England hiring Fabio Cappello as manager of the English National Team because of his knowledge of the game made up for the fact that he didn't speak English. That experiment failed and one of the reasons was that he couldn't communicate with the UK media or maybe with the players well enough.

In any event, why should an NBA team hire a coach without any NBA experience? You can say the European game is good but NBA head coaches now get about 5-year $25 million deals. So the inclination is going to be to hire someone with NBA experience.

I don't know, how easy is it for a teenager from Slovenia or Serbia with crap English to communicate with black players in the NBA?
Why should an NBA team hire a teenager like Doncic or Jokic from Europe without any NBA experience?
Why did a professional basketball team in Moscow hire a Greek coach to communicate with Russian players?
The answer is always the same: talent. It's the only thing that matters and everybody knows it, the NBA knows it better than anybody. For every Fabo Capello that failed there's a dozen others that didn't.

Please explain to me how is it that the best players in the world are international, but the NBA believes only Americans coaches are talented. It's BS my man, the NBA is run by friends of friends, that's all, the rest is excuses.

In fairness to your argument, the top player doesn't have to communicate as much with the team, FO, staff etc as the coach does. It is a different job. While I understand the bias is not awesome and it surely isn't a easy comparison but there is a few reasons, some of it being old boys club for sure, that the coaching pool is taken from the ones knowing the NBA game. It is more top to bottom, from players, media, staff, agents etc... It isn't about who the best X/O's while that is important and has to be top notch it is a bigger package. Harder to break into that old boys club for various reasons but I personally would like to see more FIBA influence in the NBA for sure. Problem is every NBA team is worth billions, and they want businessmen first and foremost.

[Pachinko_]

In fairness to your argument, the top player doesn't have to communicate as much with the team, FO, staff etc as the coach does. It is a different job. While I understand the bias is not awesome and it surely isn't a easy comparison but there is a few reasons, some of it being old boys club for sure, that the coaching pool is taken from the ones knowing the NBA game. It is more top to bottom, from players, media, staff, agents etc... It isn't about who the best X/O's while that is important and has to be top notch it is a bigger package. Harder to break into that old boys club for various reasons but I personally would like to see more FIBA influence in the NBA for sure. Problem is every NBA team is worth billions, and they want businessmen first and foremost.

I get what you're saying, but keep in mind all that has been happening just fine for decades now in European football, with clubs and superstars that are bigger and more important than James Harden. People jump from Russian to English to Italian leagues all the time, and the differences between them are chalk and cheese.

Don't buy it that NBA is something too special to deal with and you need a horse whisperer to get anywhere near an American superstar. That's all excuses. And even if it wasn't excuses, you can always start from a team where the superstar is a European guy who's English is crap anyway and is used to be coached. Jokic, Giannis, Doncic.

[CharityStripe34]

The coaching thing is semantics. The NBA could easily scale back some of the rules to favor offense and balance out the game. Then coaches and players will adjust. Think early last season how many big-name guards struggled when refs weren't bailing them out with atrocious calls. The game just flowed 100x better. Start having refs toss technicals to flop-artists. Keep the defensive 3 secs, though.

[Ruma85]

In fairness to your argument, the top player doesn't have to communicate as much with the team, FO, staff etc as the coach does. It is a different job. While I understand the bias is not awesome and it surely isn't a easy comparison but there is a few reasons, some of it being old boys club for sure, that the coaching pool is taken from the ones knowing the NBA game. It is more top to bottom, from players, media, staff, agents etc... It isn't about who the best X/O's while that is important and has to be top notch it is a bigger package. Harder to break into that old boys club for various reasons but I personally would like to see more FIBA influence in the NBA for sure. Problem is every NBA team is worth billions, and they want businessmen first and foremost.

I get what you're saying, but keep in mind all that has been happening just fine for decades now in European football, with clubs and superstars that are bigger and more important than James Harden. People jump from Russian to English to Italian leagues all the time, and the differences between them are chalk and cheese.

Don't buy it that NBA is something too special to deal with and you need a horse whisperer to get anywhere near an American superstar. That's all excuses. And even if it wasn't excuses, you can always start from a team where the superstar is a European guy who's English is crap anyway and is used to be coached. Jokic, Giannis, Doncic.

The AAU made things this way with American players, It's not a good way to develop young players.

[wco81]

If the players are talented enough, the teams will hire translators. Probably also help bring over family so the player isn't on his own in a strange country.

MLB has been doing it for decades with Latin players who only spoke English and more recently with Asian players who only speak Japanese or Korean.

A coach has to communicate to his players, most of whom only speak English.

[Swuul]

The AAU made things this way with American players, It's not a good way to develop young players.

It would indeed be horrible if the system would produce american players in the mold of Luka, Jokic or Giannis...

[Pachinko_]

The AAU made things this way with American players, It's not a good way to develop young players.

It would indeed be horrible if the system would produce american players in the mold of Luka, Jokic or Giannis...

I feel that the US will produce incredible players no matter what, that's how great is the talent pool and the love for the game. Doesn't matter how many talents they don't develop properly because of the AAU clusterfrak and the inexplicable mandatory NCAA tour of duty, they will still get an endless supply of great players no matter what.

I think Europe has a lot to learn from the US in terms of how great this game really is and how much love and popularity it deserves. And the US has something to learn from Europe in terms of developing even the smallest talent properly.