Was Bowen/Artest over Duncan in 04 All Defense team correct?

1993Playoffs · Post #1 » by **1993Playoffs** » Sun Aug 28, 2022 2:51 pm

Was looking at the all defensive teams for 2004 and Artest and Bowen over Duncan for first team doesn’t seem right Was Duncan snubbed?

No-more-rings · Post #2 » by **No-more-rings** » Sun Aug 28, 2022 3:26 pm

Well Duncan was obviously better defensively than them. The 2004 Spurs actually had a better DRTG than the 99 version. They had a 92.1 DRTG with Duncan on court. Just insane.

HeartBreakKid · Post #3 » by **HeartBreakKid** » Sun Aug 28, 2022 3:27 pm

I think all-defense is not position based or they're super loose with it, so yes, Bruce Bowen getting a spot over Duncan would be a snub. Ditto with Bryant.

Artest was the third best defender on the all-defense 1st team, so he wouldn't really have snubbed Duncan. He was likely worthy of a spot.

70sFan · Post #4 » by **70sFan** » Sun Aug 28, 2022 3:43 pm

The only reason to put him lower than first team is because of missed games. I don't think that's enough to put him below though.

Duncan was the best defensive player in the league in 2004 in my opinion. He had very strong competition that year, with Wallace and KG peaking but he's definitely in discussion.

LAL1947 · Post #5 » by **LAL1947** » Sun Aug 28, 2022 3:49 pm

Why are you asking about Bowen and Artest? Duncan didn't get a 1st Team All-Defense selection because Ben Wallace and Kevin Garnett were better defenders than him that season... and so they were selected as the two Bigs.

Anyway, I think Bowen and Artest did more on defense for their teams in 2003-04 than Duncan did.

Without Bowen's relentless hounding of the opponent's best guards or SFs... those players would have had free layup and dunk lines to Duncan at the rim. Additionally, Bowen provided Duncan with a considerable amount of help defense.

Similarly, Ron Artest was a beast in 2003-04, doing the same thing for the Pacers.

Both deserved their spots... although I've felt Kobe was always a better defender than Bowen or Artest or even Tony Allen. He doesn't get as much credit though as those guys could defend all game long without worrying about fouling out since they weren't the offensive hub of their teams.

HeartBreakKid · Post #6 » by **HeartBreakKid** » Sun Aug 28, 2022 3:54 pm

LAL1947 wrote:Why are you asking about Bowen and Artest? Duncan didn't get a 1st Team All-Defense selection because Ben Wallace and Kevin Garnett were better defenders than him that season... and so they were selected as the two Bigs.

Not how it works.

Anyway, I think Bowen and Artest did more on defense for their teams in 2003-04 than Duncan did.

Without Bowen's relentless hounding of the opponent's best guards or SFs... those players would have had free layup and dunk lines to Duncan at the rim. Additionally, Bowen provided Duncan with a considerable amount of help defense.

Similarly, Ron Artest was a beast in 2003-04, doing the same thing for the Pacers.

Both deserved their spots... although I've felt Kobe was always a better defender than Bowen. He just didn't get as much credit because the only thing Bowen did all game long was defend.

You're saying Bruce Bowen is a better defender than Tim Duncan because he guarded perimeter players when he himself is a perimeter player? Considering Duncan was covering the paint he would have provided with Bowen with a "considerable amount of help defense".

Tim Duncan was in his peak in 2003, and in 2004 he is going to be a worse defender than Bruce Bowen?

70sFan · Post #7 » by **70sFan** » Sun Aug 28, 2022 3:59 pm

LAL1947 wrote:Without Bowen's relentless hounding of the opponent's best guards or SFs... those players would have had free layup and dunk lines to Duncan at the rim. Additionally, Bowen provided Duncan with a considerable amount of help defense.

You did it in a wrong direction. Bowen could relentlessly hounding of the opponents best guards of SFs because he had Duncan behind him, cleaning up all the breakdowns. Duncan was also Spurs main help defender, not Bowen.

Both deserved their spots... although I've felt Kobe was always a better defender than Bowen or Artest or even Tony Allen. He doesn't get as much credit though as those guys could defend all game long without worrying about fouling out since they weren't the offensive hub of their teams.

So, it was a quick turn from Bowen to Kobe being a better defender than Duncan. I see, nothing new.

An Unbiased Fan · Post #8 » by **An Unbiased Fan** » Sun Aug 28, 2022 4:47 pm

It was KG/Big Ben over TD, and well deserved in 2004

Dr Positivity · Post #9 » by **Dr Positivity** » Sun Aug 28, 2022 5:46 pm

They proved they could do 3 bigs in other years so yes it could have been Kobe/Artest/Duncan/KG/Wallace I guess.

Clipsz 4 Life · Post #10 » by **Tim Lehrbach** » Sun Aug 28, 2022 6:51 pm

Duncan was just a dopey, slow guy, I learned today. Honestly should've been benched whenever they played Phoenix, probably a buncha other teams too.

SinceGatlingWasARookie · Post #11 » by **SinceGatlingWasARookie** » Mon Aug 29, 2022 4:47 am

1993Playoffs wrote:Was looking at the all defensive teams for 2004 and Artest and Bowen over Duncan for first team doesn’t seem right Was Duncan snubbed?

Isn't it by position.
Now it is media that votes. Was media voting back then? Media voting is a wild card.
So who was the 1st team center? Oh Wait, they were probably calling a Ducan a power forward and KG probably beat him.
Nothing really wrong with that. KG might have been a better defender than Duncan in 2004. Bad luck to be matched up against KG.

MyUniBroDavis · Post #12 » by **MyUniBroDavis** » Mon Aug 29, 2022 3:55 pm

LAL1947 wrote:Why are you asking about Bowen and Artest? Duncan didn't get a 1st Team All-Defense selection because Ben Wallace and Kevin Garnett were better defenders than him that season... and so they were selected as the two Bigs.

Anyway, I think Bowen and Artest did more on defense for their teams in 2003-04 than Duncan did.

Without Bowen's relentless hounding of the opponent's best guards or SFs... those players would have had free layup and dunk lines to Duncan at the rim. Additionally, Bowen provided Duncan with a considerable amount of help defense.

Similarly, Ron Artest was a beast in 2003-04, doing the same thing for the Pacers.

Both deserved their spots... although I've felt Kobe was always a better defender than Bowen or Artest or even Tony Allen. He doesn't get as much credit though as those guys could defend all game long without worrying about fouling out since they weren't the offensive hub of their teams.

While I think there is value in Kobe being able to turn it on defensively in 1v1 situations in certain matchups, I don’t think even in spurts he was better than those guys, and the fact that they could focus on D to be more far impactful does mean they’re still more impactful in that end

None of them over prime TD though that’s wild lol, Timmy is a top 5 defender ever

Historically and definately in the 2000s good defensive bigs bigs are better defensively than perimeter defensive players.

Getting guy that’s in the discussion for best defensive big ever post russell during his prime, I mean…