Porzinga! Kristaps Porzingis appreciation thread.

[gambitx777]

If he can stay healthy. My god he's gonna be great!

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[doclinkin]

Not according to PER. By that measure (I will never succumb to saying metric* — ugh), The Zinger is the better player. Not by a little.

Also, and I don’t have stats for this at hand, but his “gravity” is undoubtedly higher, especially in the high post, where he belongs. That affects all four guys on the court with him.

You can visualize his effect from here:

https://apanalytics.shinyapps.io/Gravity/

These aren't last years charts, but this will give you an idea.

On the 2021 Mavs Porzingis had a -11.5 gravity at the 3 above the key, and at the basket. Where an average player is zero, and a very good one is -10.

So, what we have here, fellas, in the high post, is a superduper-star.

Leastways he's guarded as if he's damn good. He's not at the -20 gravity of the superdupers. But yes you can gameplan around the fact that Zinger will be guarded tight when he posts above the FT line.

[DCZards]

KP is tough to defend when he's making those short turnaround and fadeaway jumpers. With his height and length he's getting that shot off against anybody...including NBA players.

[doclinkin]

KP is tough to defend when he's making those short turnaround and fadeaway jumpers. With his height and length he's getting that shot off against anybody...including NBA players.

Especially when he is banking it off the glass from 12 feet away. Nobody is scheming to stop that shot.

[B8RcDeMktfxC]

It's a weird situation.

Nico Harrison isn't under the pump for the KP trade because of how well Jalen Brunson played in the playoffs - where Dinwiddie essentially disappeared. A priori that doesn't seem a sustainable situation unless Wood really makes a difference (which, tbh, he may well do - I'm more upbeat about that than many Mavs fans seem to be), but the Wizards won that trade by miles on any objective view. Harrison sacrificed value in order to have room to do GM things .. which he basically hasn't really done.

Otoh, what everyone wants to know is was it more than just miserable luck with two contact injuries that has led KP to so far have had a tantalizing, but as yet not completely blossomed career.

[payitforward]

It's a weird situation.

Nico Harrison isn't under the pump for the KP trade because of how well Jalen Brunson played in the playoffs - where Dinwiddie essentially disappeared. A priori that doesn't seem a sustainable situation unless Wood really makes a difference (which, tbh, he may well do - I'm more upbeat about that than many Mavs fans seem to be), but the Wizards won that trade by miles on any objective view. Harrison sacrificed value in order to have room to do GM things .. which he basically hasn't really done.

Otoh, what everyone wants to know is was it more than just miserable luck with two contact injuries that has led KP to so far have had a tantalizing, but as yet not completely blossomed career.

I want KP to have a great season just as much as you & others do. But, I hate this kind of fact-bending homerism.

Tell me, did the Mavs do better after the trade, or did they do worse? They did better.

Tell me, what was our record with KP in the lineup? 7-10, right? Is that a good record.

Dinwiddie didn't disappear in the playoffs. That's plain silly.

We gave, essentially, nothing for KP. In fact, they had to throw in a R2 pick to trade him. Why do you think that was? Why were they able to raise so little interest in Porzingis that they had to take just about anything for him -- & throw in a pick to make it happen?

As to the idea that "KP... so far" has "had a tantalizing, but as yet not completely blossomed career," it's ridiculous. So far, in 7 seasons in the NBA, Kristaps Porzingis has had a terrible career. Lousy. Hugely disappointing.

He was bad his first 3 seasons. He missed his 4th season altogether. & he hasn't averaged 50 games a season or put up a single solid season in the 4 years since.

& there you have the reason that led to his being available ro next to nothing -- Kristaps Porzingis has been an enormous disappointment in the NBA. For now almost a decade.

Could all that change completely this year? Sure! & like you I definitely want it to!
Is it likely to change completely this year? I don't know... why don't you show me a previous situation where it did, ok? I'll wait here while you look for one.....

[DCZards]

As to the idea that "KP... so far" has "had a tantalizing, but as yet not completely blossomed career," it's ridiculous. So far, in 7 seasons in the NBA, Kristaps Porzingis has had a terrible career. Lousy. Hugely disappointing.

KP has career averages of 18 pts, 8 rebs, 2 blocks, 82% on FTs, 48% on 2s, and 35% on 3s. No way is that a terrible career. Health has been KP's problem...not talent.

[Dat2U]

As to the idea that "KP... so far" has "had a tantalizing, but as yet not completely blossomed career," it's ridiculous. So far, in 7 seasons in the NBA, Kristaps Porzingis has had a terrible career. Lousy. Hugely disappointing.

KP has career averages of 18 pts, 8 rebs, 2 blocks, 82% on FTs, 48% on 2s, and 35% on 3s. No way is that a terrible career. Health has been KP's problem...not talent.

In PIF's eyes, rebounds are everything. WP48 loves rebounds, or was it WS48? I've fogotten by now but if a big isn't a superior rebounder, PIF won't have nice things to say about his production.

[doclinkin]

As to the idea that "KP... so far" has "had a tantalizing, but as yet not completely blossomed career," it's ridiculous. So far, in 7 seasons in the NBA, Kristaps Porzingis has had a terrible career. Lousy. Hugely disappointing.

KP has career averages of 18 pts, 8 rebs, 2 blocks, 82% on FTs, 48% on 2s, and 35% on 3s. No way is that a terrible career. Health has been KP's problem...not talent.

In PIF's eyes, rebounds are everything. WP48 loves rebounds, or was it WS48? I've fogotten by now but if a big isn't a superior rebounder, PIF won't have nice things to say about his production.

Splitting the fly's eyelash even more finely: in the PIF view, if a big isn't a stellar Offensive boardsman then he is necessarily inferior to other bigs.

Porzingis' skill set that posts him far from the hoop means that he is often out of position for offensive boards. Now if Bigs have to chase him out that far, perhaps opponents' defensive rebounding rates suffer, but that fits less neatly into box score formulae.

So nevermind that Porzingis has had a positive +/- every year of his career. (Ok fine: negative in Dallas this past year, but positive in DC. And -5 pts in the 20-21 regular season but +8 points in the playoffs).

He must be a terrible player because his skill set does not fit the usual parameters of what a big is supposed to do. Still, I wonder how he would stack up if we regarded him as a SF, like say the near 7 foot Kevin Durant. Given that the vast majority of shots taken by Porzingis are jump shots outside 10', it seems to me he ought to be measured against other players who play the same role. Last year Porzingis took more 3 pt shots than FGAs from any other distance. Not sure what other PF or C can say the same. Seems to me as a SF he's a damn good rebounder and shot blocker, even if, yeah, his 3pt shot has been better in years past.

Personally I'd love to see him next to a SF/PF that is a prodigious offensive rebounder, who could crash the boards for putback chances while otherwise posting away from the basket. Sadly, as has been illustrated many times, Brandon Clarke does not play here.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Had they drafted Tari Eason you would have seen him next to a prolific rebounding SF/PF.

Jalen Smith would have been ideal paired with KP. His rebounds and his made outside shots would improve the Wizards. Smith is also a very good shot blocker.

Paul Reed I think is another player who would be an improvement in the front court.

[FAH1223]

KP looks fantastic

[doclinkin]

Had they drafted Tari Eason you would have seen him next to a prolific rebounding SF/PF.

Sigh. Don't remind me.

[queridiculo]

This deal for Porzingis could still turn out one of the more lopsided transactions in quite some time

[barelyawake]

Three points.

One. KP is called the unicorn for a god damn reason. A unicorn is a mythical beast that has supernatural powers and is impossible to find in the wild.

Two. I understand how some want to continue to pump the narrative that teams and teammates don’t effect stats, that people get the stats they are meant to get no matter the situation. But, that theory has always been nonsense and especially so with KP.

Three. Make no mistake, the reason why GMs are down on KP has everything to do with the fact that he’s labeled too tall to live. No player his size has survived without severe limitations from injury (due to size). However, as we evolve as a species, KP could be the first marker of the next step in evolution (like a unicorn).

The list of reasons GMs shy away from KP goes:

A) 98% of it is size/contract (basing an entire team around a guy who may break in half is a huge gamble)
B) Waayyyy down at the bottom is attitude with his self-inflated ego (based on what he knows what he can do when healthy).
C) To work, you need to create an entire team based around his talents.
D) The very, very bottom of the list is any questions of his ability.

Because of Beal, we have the need to “win now” or tank. That puts us in an unusual situation to try the KP experiment. If it works, great. If not, Victor. It’s a win-win, and that’s why our GM went for it.

[DCZards]

Three points.

One. KP is called the unicorn for a god damn reason. A unicorn is a mythical beast that has supernatural powers and is impossible to find in the wild.

Two. I understand how some want to continue to pump the narrative that teams and teammates don’t effect stats, that people get the stats they are meant to get no matter the situation. But, that theory has always been nonsense and especially so with KP.

Three. Make no mistake, the reason why GMs are down on KP has everything to do with the fact that he’s labeled too tall to live. No player his size has survived without severe limitations from injury (due to size). However, as we evolve as a species, KP could be the first marker of the next step in evolution (like a unicorn).

Yes…a player’s performance and stats can be impacted (both positively and negatively) by their teams and teammates. Coaching and style of play can have a significant impact as well.

I was encouraged by the role that Wes Jr. put in KP in where he operated out of the high post as both a scorer and facilitator. He was sorta like a poor man’s Nikola Jokic, which ain’t a bad thing. Looking forward to seeing more of that…especially now that they’ll have a full preseason to implement that system. Doesn’t hurt that both Morris and Barton played with Jokic.

[nate33]

When Dallas traded for Porzingis, I think they viewed him as merely a stretch 5 - a guy that could defend the paint on defense, and basically just get out of Luka's way on offense. His job was to pick and pop, or to space the floor on the other side of the court and draw away the big man. But as it turns out, Porzingis isn't really THAT great of 3-point shooter. He shot 36% from 3-point range prior to this last season, which is respectable, but not really a weapon. So when used in that role, he wasn't particularly great. And on defense, his lack of mobility limits him to being exclusively a drop coverage guy, and Dallas' guards didn't have the defensive chops to fight through screens in a drop coverage scheme.

It was really a failure in vision. Porzingis can do the stretch 5 thing, but he is much more than that. Wes Jr. figured that out right away. Porzingis is a really good midrange scorer and post player - particularly when he has a big height advantage. Putting him in a system that gets him the ball at 18 feet against a mismatch turned out to be an extremely effective strategy. If he can stay healthy, it really might be the foundation of an efficient offense.

Dallas couldn't do it because they're even better with the ball in Luka's hands. But the personnel on the Wizards are actually pretty well-suited for a Porzingis-centric offense. They have a bunch of smart off-ball cutters who can play off of Porzingis. And they have a bunch of guys who can handle the ball in a Porzingis pick-and-roll to force a switch.

I think the biggest concern will be defense. Porzingis can protect the rim, but he can't switch on the perimeter. We are going to have to play drop coverage, and drop coverage requires the perimeter defenders to fight through screens effectively to limit the duration that Porzingis will have to guard two players in the pick-and-roll. Wright can do this well. Morris doesn't have innate defensive gifts, but he has a lot of experience playing drop coverage alongside Jokic so that should help. Beal is going to have to step it up defensively. We're going to miss KCP.

[payitforward]

Excellent analysis, nate...! & it could work out well that way, too!

Meanwhile -- or, rather, above all! -- keep the guy healthy & on the floor!

[gesa2]

This deal for Porzingis could still turn out one of the more lopsided transactions in quite some time

Nah that’s the Westbrook trade

[payitforward]

As to the idea that "KP... so far" has "had a tantalizing, but as yet not completely blossomed career," it's ridiculous. So far, in 7 seasons in the NBA, Kristaps Porzingis has had a terrible career. Lousy. Hugely disappointing.

KP has career averages of 18 pts, 8 rebs, 2 blocks, 82% on FTs, 48% on 2s, and 35% on 3s. No way is that a terrible career. Health has been KP's problem...not talent.

In PIF's eyes, rebounds are everything. WP48 loves rebounds, or was it WS48? I've fogotten by now but if a big isn't a superior rebounder, PIF won't have nice things to say about his production.

You're both wrong. Just wrong in different ways.

Zards, I didn't question Porzingis' talent. But, he was the 4th pick in the draft. Yet, he's managed to average 1200 minutes a season over the last 5 years. That alone would qualify him as "disappointing."

Moreover, on his career, he's a below average scorer for a big.

Dallas just traded him for, essentially, nothing much. Here's why: although KP is extremely talented, he's been a big disappointment in the NBA so far.

Dat, you're wrong in two ways --

First off, you;re wrong about me in that I don't prioritize rebounding over any other activity on the court, I just don't look away from it.

But the big way you're wrong is funnier: KP has been a disappointment in a number of ways (above all, obviously, in his inability to stay healthy) -- but he's a perfectly adequate rebounder!

[payitforward]

...Splitting the fly's eyelash even more finely: in the PIF view, if a big isn't a stellar Offensive boardsman then he is necessarily inferior to other bigs. ...

Wrong again.

Maybe I can help you guys understand this a little better. Try to pay attention to the following:

There are two ways to win a basketball game: either you shoot a higher % than your opponent or, if you don't do that, maybe you get to take more shots than your opponent. Do both & you can't lose. Do one of the 2 & you have a chance to win. Do neither, & you can't win: you lose every time.

Is the above paragraph true or false?
Feel free to read it again.
Ok, good. Now tell me: is it true or is it false?
Gotta be one or the other, right?
Which is it?

Answer: it's true. It's been true in every basketball game that's ever been played. & it'll be true in every basketball game that's ever played in the future. It is never false. Either you score at a higher % than your opponent, or you get more chances to score than your opponent. If you don't do one of those 2 things, you can't win. If you do them both, you can't lose.

Are you with me so far? Good!

You know what's great? Every single good thing you do on offense either helps increase your team's scoring % (i.e. helps you win) or helps increase the number of shots/FTs you get to take (i.e. helps you win).