Danny Ainge just took the whole NBA execs to school

[DavidSterned]

Mitchell is 26, Gobert is 30. Both are flawed players at least a full tier below true franchise level. They won two playoffs series in 5 years together and often seemed to fumble in the playoffs in embarrassing fashion. The returns last year were already diminishing. And on top of that the two didn't like each other.

I'm shocked that anyone was still vying for building around them.

[dc]

that's cool. let's revisit this in 5 years and add up the jazz's win totals.

For the next 2-3 years, they want those totals to be as low as possible. That was the entire point of unloading Mitchell before the seasons started. He was going to win them games they didn't want to win.

i know the point buy ultimately its about wins at some point. 5 years from now they better be in the 50 win range otherwise what's the point?

Look at it this way. Even when Hinkie pulled the tank of all tanks and had everyone in a huge uproar, the 76ers missed the playoffs for 5 years. Remember, that was the most EXTREME of all tank jobs and it was a 5 year playoff drought.

Consider:

-Lakers had a 6 year playoff drought from the start of Kobe's twilight years to Lebron's 1st year with them.

-The Chris Cohan owned Warriors missed the playoffs 12 years in a row and 14 out of 15. Would've been 15 out of 15 if it wasn't for that We Believe team that made it as an 8th seed in the final game of the season.

-The Kings have missed the playoffs for how many years now? I got tired of doing the math

[Ruma85]

I am trying to compare a mentality. If they couldn’t win in a year or two at most three, time to blow up. Trying to build something is way too tough

The Jazz got the #1 seed in the West and proceeded to lose to a Clips team that lost Kawhi halfway thru the series and played with a frontcourt of Morris/Batum. That was pretty telling and a lot of people would've just blown up the team right after that.

Jazz ran it back the following year. They got the 5th seed in what was a soft year in the Western Conference and they lost in the 1st round to a Mavs team that didn't have Luka in 2 out of 6 games. I couldn't blame anyone who wanted to blow that team up.

As I said, you would also want to trade Stockton and Malone if you were a fan back then. Those two didn’t make the finals until their 30s

I wouldn't but it's fine if you would.

[seren]

Modern NBA fan: Utah should have traded Stockton and Malone by ‘89 for picks because it was obvious they couldn’t win

Stockton and Malone were considerably better than Gobert/Mitchell, so....

Stockton playoff record his first five years: 13-20
Mitchell: 17-22

I am not even comparing two players. I am just talking about the modern fan and how do nothing front offices take advantage of the situation.

Having said that, obviously realgm fans can not be representative of ticket buyers. I bet most of you won’t watch a single minute of Utah Jazz for the foreseeable future

[seren]

Mitchell is 26, Gobert is 30. Both are flawed players at least a full tier below true franchise level. They won two playoffs series in 5 years together and often seemed to fumble in the playoffs in embarrassing fashion. The returns last year were already diminishing. And on top of that the two didn't like each other.

I'm shocked that anyone was still vying for building around them.

Every player is a flawed player until they win the whole thing. It is the front office’s job to build a winning squad around flawed players

[Los_29]

Stockpiling picks is the easiest thing to do. It's turning those picks into assets that is the difficult part. Those picks are likely all going to be late in the first round and Ainge has a terrible track record of drafting in that range.

[Case2012]

The Blazers never even called him…

[seren]

As I said, you would also want to trade Stockton and Malone if you were a fan back then. Those two didn’t make the finals until their 30s

Mitchell's game not likely to age the way Stockton's did, though in theory Gobert's "could" age well.

The Jazz were only getting worse. Gobert never learned any offensive moves. Ingles was a key role player for them, but he's rehabbing an ACL at age 34. Conley is small, 34 and still making big money. Bogdanovic is 33. They were blowing 4th Q leads left and right last year, despite having a historically good defensive player. In a league dominated by wings, they had the almighty Royce O'neale to defend against them.

They had no assets to make any other moves or even replace their role guys like Conley, Bogdanovic and Ingles in coming years.

Really? Their role players had long term contracts and they ran out of picks? How will they even tank then?

[dc]

Really? Their role players had long term contracts and they ran out of picks? How will they even tank then?

You're never tanking with 2 players like Gobert/Mitchell on the team unless you pull a Presti and just sit them 40+ games at a time.

[DavidSterned]

Modern NBA fan: Utah should have traded Stockton and Malone by ‘89 for picks because it was obvious they couldn’t win

Stockton and Malone were considerably better than Gobert/Mitchell, so....

Stockton playoff record his first five years: 13-20
Mitchell: 17-22

I am not even comparing two players. I am just talking about the modern fan and how do nothing front offices take advantage of the situation.

Having said that, obviously realgm fans can not be representative of ticket buyers. I bet most of you won’t watch a single minute of Utah Jazz for the foreseeable future

You want to talk about do nothing front offices, maybe you should be looking at someone like Neil Olshey who spent 9 years settling for constant mediocrity with a poor-fitting team that obviously was going nowhere. And doing a great job of alienating an entire fanbase in the process. Ainge has already collected more assets in three months than Olshey got in those 9 years.

Sixers attendance (and fan morale) improved pretty considerably after the process when compared with the mediocre dreck that preceded it....

[DavidSterned]

Mitchell is 26, Gobert is 30. Both are flawed players at least a full tier below true franchise level. They won two playoffs series in 5 years together and often seemed to fumble in the playoffs in embarrassing fashion. The returns last year were already diminishing. And on top of that the two didn't like each other.

I'm shocked that anyone was still vying for building around them.

Every player is a flawed player until they win the whole thing. It is the front office’s job to build a winning squad around flawed players

Interesting logic. So by extension is every flawed player or collection of flawed players simply a good front office away from winning the whole thing? Wonder why the 2011-12 Bobcats never got their parade in the sun.

[Tracymcgoaty]

Why? Because in the year 2030 he might have a team that'll contend?

[Johnny Bball]

People really cant see that Ainge's inability to be a normal human meant he took the worst of two packages? Half of RGM could do what he did and half NBA GM's probably do better a better job.

[Roger Murdock]

Show me one team that has won a championship by hoarding picks and turning the franchise into a disgrace for years on end.

It’s the most lauded team-building strategy that has never produced even a finalist.

The Cavs made the finals 4 years in a row and won the title. The problem is every other team skipped the 'sign LeBron James step'

Its a very important step.

[Pharmcat]

The gobert trade was highway robbery. But Mitchell trade is market value

[Pointgod]

More like Danny Ainge hella settled on this trade. Remember he was asking for 4-5 picks from the Knicks plus another 3-4 young assets for Mitchell. Now he’s getting picks that are more likely to be low first round picks at least for the next 5 years and who honestly believes that the Jazz are going to be leagues better than the Cavs in the next 7 years? The Jazz are a team that struggles to sign free agents and they’re going to be a tanking team for the next half decade at least. Good luck selling free agents on that future.

[MalonesElbows]

I am trying to compare a mentality. If they couldn’t win in a year or two at most three, time to blow up. Trying to build something is way too tough

Ok, but they won't going to win with those 2. as there main options.

Yep. They will surely win with that kid in the 8th grade.

It is really one thing what Ainge did in Boston. Pierce was 36. Garnett was 37. Ray Allen was gone. That was the end of the era.

Compare that to giving up on a 25 year old with a three year contract and a former DPOY who still has many years ahead.

But as I said. Trying is risky. Ainge could have traded picks and expirings to add players and the team could have still failed. This is certainly the easy way out. Nobody will ask him about winning a game yet a championship for many years. Heck they will demand losses

The Joe Ingles ACL tear was the straw that broke the camels back for the core. Jazz were capped out money, no up and coming good players on rookie deals, just no way to make improvements.

[TeamTragic]

More like Danny Ainge hella settled on this trade. Remember he was asking for 4-5 picks from the Knicks plus another 3-4 young assets for Mitchell. Now he’s getting picks that are more likely to be low first round picks at least for the next 5 years and who honestly believes that the Jazz are going to be leagues better than the Cavs in the next 7 years? The Jazz are a team that struggles to sign free agents and they’re going to be a tanking team for the next half decade at least. Good luck selling free agents on that future.

Absolutely. Market has been reset.

[zimpy27]

I don't think it was amazing. It was above average.

He took two highly valued medium-term assets and swapped them for many lesser valued long-term assets.

I don't think the picks are that great tbh (he got them from 2 teams with two of the best young players that play 7-8 more seasons with their team guaranteed) but if Utah can put together a good team in the next few years through the draft then those picks will come in handy to boost the developing young team.

I think Danny will do it a similar way that was done with Boston.

[NO-KG-AI]

Modern NBA fan: Utah should have traded Stockton and Malone by ‘89 for picks because it was obvious they couldn’t win

Stockton and Malone were considerably better than Gobert/Mitchell, so....

Stockton playoff record his first five years: 13-20
Mitchell: 17-22

I am not even comparing two players. I am just talking about the modern fan and how do nothing front offices take advantage of the situation.

Having said that, obviously realgm fans can not be representative of ticket buyers. I bet most of you won’t watch a single minute of Utah Jazz for the foreseeable future

I mean, it's very clear on guys you can and should move on from, and guys that are MVP level players that you keep at all cost. Kevin Garnett and TRacy McGrady were struggling to get out of the first round, and guys like Mitchell and Deron Williams got out of the first round quick.

There is nuance and context on who to cut bait on and trade, and it's not as simple as "we didn't get over the hump yet, trade them."