Towns vs Cousins vs Aldridge

[durantbird]

How would you rank the three's peak as we saw it (Towns may peak higher)?

[tsherkin]

Towns pretty much outstrips both of them. Then I think 2017 Cousins followed by 2018 Aldridge.

[PistolPeteJR]

Towns pretty much outstrips both of them. Then I think 2017 Cousins followed by 2018 Aldridge.

Not necessarily saying he's better, but 2014 Aldridge was fun to watch.

[SickMother]

Until KAT does something in the playoffs I've got LaMarcus at the top of this trio. DeMarcus might have had the most talent, but between getting drafted by Sacramento & his mercurial disposition & then injuries just as he was hitting his stride in NOP, he never really turned it into much on court production...

LMA 15-16: 22.4 PER | .565 TS% | 104 TS+ | 10.1 WS | .215 WS/48
LMA 15-16 Playoffs?!?: 25.0 PER | .579 TS% | 1.6 WS | .223 WS/48

KAT 21-22: 24.1 PER | .640 TS% | 113 TS+ | 10.3 WS | .199 WS/48
KAT 21-22 Playoffs?!?: 17.3 PER | .642 TS% | 0.5 WS | .098 WS/48

DMC 13-14: 26.1 PER | .555 TS% | 103 TS+ | 7.9 WS | .166 WS/48
DMC 13-14 Playoffs?!?: ---- PER | ----- TS% | ---- WS | ---- WS/48

[Texas Chuck]

Cousins the worst player here by no small margin. He's the perfect example of a guy who is all over a box score, but activity in his case was rarely achievement. Incredible talent, but low basketball IQ and the Kings catered to him instead of coaching him up.

Towns by far the best offensive player here, but LMA was a much more complete player. I'd have that pretty close and maybe side with LMA despite him being the least talented of the three.

[Colbinii]

Cousins the worst player here by no small margin. He's the perfect example of a guy who is all over a box score, but activity in his case was rarely achievement. Incredible talent, but low basketball IQ and the Kings catered to him instead of coaching him up.

Towns by far the best offensive player here, but LMA was a much more complete player. I'd have that pretty close and maybe side with LMA despite him being the least talented of the three.

LMA's volume scoring + low turnover is extremely value and tends to be underrated. I probably have him #1 as well.

[tsherkin]

Towns pretty much outstrips both of them. Then I think 2017 Cousins followed by 2018 Aldridge.

Not necessarily saying he's better, but 2014 Aldridge was fun to watch.

Fun to watch and actual quality have nothing to do with one another, of course, so that makes sense to me.

LMA's volume scoring + low turnover is extremely value and tends to be underrated. I probably have him #1 as well.

Eh. LMA has shot a jumper from 16+ feet on over a third of all his attempts. It's not SUPER surprising that his turnover rate is low when he isn't doing a ton of low-block isos, face-up drives and what-not, and is ending possessions with jumpers. I don't want to diminish TOO much, of course, because he actually is really good at protecting the ball, but his style of play is also quite well-suited to that. It's just unfortunate that his major other contribution is tepid scoring. Towns is a lot better on offense than LMA, for example.

[SNPA]

Cousins the worst player here by no small margin. He's the perfect example of a guy who is all over a box score, but activity in his case was rarely achievement. Incredible talent, but low basketball IQ and the Kings catered to him instead of coaching him up.

Towns by far the best offensive player here, but LMA was a much more complete player. I'd have that pretty close and maybe side with LMA despite him being the least talented of the three.

Cousins is the most talented player of the three. One can argue impact but that takes other factors into consideration. In terms of pure basketball talent, it’s Cousins and it isn’t close.

[tsherkin]

Cousins is the most talented player of the three. One can argue impact but that takes other factors into consideration. In terms of pure basketball talent, it’s Cousins and it isn’t close.

This is, of course, violently irrelevant because that talent didn't materialize into on-court effect.

[SNPA]

Cousins is the most talented player of the three. One can argue impact but that takes other factors into consideration. In terms of pure basketball talent, it’s Cousins and it isn’t close.

This is, of course, violently irrelevant because that talent didn't materialize into on-court effect.

Peak, as the OP requests, Cousins is a monster. The fact Sac wasted it, misused it and he blew his lid a lot doesn’t change it.

[tsherkin]

Peak, as the OP requests, Cousins is a monster.

Not really, no. Not unless all you look at it is raw PPG. He wasn't an impressive offensive force. At his peak, he was pretty decent for a year in 2017 whilst still with the Kings. But he was very inconsistent, he didn't do it outside that year, his finishing past about 3 feet was really unimpressive. He shot a lot from range when he really shouldn't have, and he declined as an offensive rebounder notably as he moved towards that peak.

Flashy numbers. Loads of talent. Basically never put it together in a meaningful way. Definitely a lot worse than Towns on offense, but also generally as good or better than Aldridge. He had the tools, but he underperformed notably and he definitely wasn't a "monster" in impact. More a tantalizing prospect based on tools and theoretical skills, but ultimately underperformed expectations.

[SNPA]

Peak, as the OP requests, Cousins is a monster.

Not really, no. Not unless all you look at it is raw PPG. He wasn't an impressive offensive force. At his peak, he was pretty decent for a year in 2017 whilst still with the Kings. But he was very inconsistent, he didn't do it outside that year, his finishing past about 3 feet was really unimpressive. He shot a lot from range when he really shouldn't have, and he declined as an offensive rebounder notably as he moved towards that peak.

Flashy numbers. Loads of talent. Basically never put it together in a meaningful way. Definitely a lot worse than Towns on offense, but also generally as good or better than Aldridge. He had the tools, but he underperformed notably and he definitely wasn't a "monster" in impact. More a tantalizing prospect based on tools and theoretical skills, but ultimately underperformed expectations.

Put Towns or LA on those Sac teams. What happens?

[tsherkin]

Put Towns or LA on those Sac teams. What happens?

They improve on offense. They don't win a lot more because they were still garbage squads, but they're better than with Cousins.

[SNPA]

Put Towns or LA on those Sac teams. What happens?

They improve on offense. They don't win a lot more because they were still garbage squads, but they're better than with Cousins.

Agree to disagree. I’ve seen Cousins put on performances the other two can’t.

[tsherkin]

Agree to disagree. I’ve seen Cousins put on performances the other two can’t.

There isn't much to disagree about it, to be honest. As an anecdotal aside, you've not seen Cousins drop a 60-point game, but you have seen Towns do it. He hit San Antonio with that earlier this year. Cousins had a couple of like 35/20 type games, but the raw box score numbers are only so impressive compared to Towns, who has done similar things and has generally been a quite noticeably superior scorer compared to Towns. There isn't really a compelling pro-Cousins offense argument where is Towns concerned.

[SNPA]

Agree to disagree. I’ve seen Cousins put on performances the other two can’t.

There isn't much to disagree about it, to be honest. As an anecdotal aside, you've not seen Cousins drop a 60-point game, but you have seen Towns do it. He hit San Antonio with that earlier this year. Cousins had a couple of like 35/20 type games, but the raw box score numbers are only so impressive compared to Towns, who has done similar things and has generally been a quite noticeably superior scorer compared to Towns. There isn't really a compelling pro-Cousins offense argument where is Towns concerned.

Watch on YouTube

“It’s getting ridiculous.”

He’s just more dynamic. Look at some of these moves.

Inside, outside. Power, finesse. Left, right. ISO, of movement. On the block, leading the beak. Flips, dunks, floaters, drives, threes…all of it. Blocks a shot and challenges a Dame three on the same sequence in the final seconds. He even hit a step back three.

He also got ejected, then brought back. Towns ever do that? Lol

Refs hated him every step of the way (his fault in large extent but still..).

[tsherkin]

He’s just more dynamic. Look at some of these moves.

His increased dynamism never led to increased effect, which means it's aesthetic-only, and isn't really relevant. This is the Al Jefferson Paradox, where breadth of moves made people overvalue him. Sometimes, simple is better. Aggressive focus on diversity of moves also means you tend not to master what you're doing. Cousins frequently tried to do too much different stuff.

Refs hated him every step of the way (his fault in large extent but still..).

This is mostly hyperbole. He actually drew fouls pretty well, just not at a Shaq-like rate.

[SNPA]

He’s just more dynamic. Look at some of these moves.

His increased dynamism never led to increased effect, which means it's aesthetic-only, and isn't really relevant. This is the Al Jefferson Paradox, where breadth of moves made people overvalue him. Sometimes, simple is better. Aggressive focus on diversity of moves also means you tend not to master what you're doing. Cousins frequently tried to do too much different stuff.

Refs hated him every step of the way (his fault in large extent but still..).

This is mostly hyperbole. He actually drew fouls pretty well, just not at a Shaq-like rate.

It’s not aesthetics. It’s talent.

Cousins is also on a totally different level talent-wise than Al Jefferson.

Cousins comes in the league pre-big man shooting threes like eating candy era. He added it to his game years into his career. His efficiency on offense is hurt by the fact his coaches, ownership and teams generally sucked. We are talking peak, and peak he is an absolute load anywhere and everywhere…more so than Towns. Peak Cousins bully’s the **** out of Towns.

If you think the refs hating him is hyperbole then you didn’t watch enough Cousins games. That’s what the famous, “It’s getting ridiculous” quote is about. The refs absolutely hated his guts and tried to stick it to him every chance they got. He got his in-spite of it, Towns has never faced playing 8 on 5 like that.

[tsherkin]

It’s not aesthetics. It’s talent.

You can repeat that as often as you like, but it doesn't actually turn into meaningful results.

Cousins is also on a totally different level talent-wise than Al Jefferson.

Which makes his profile as a scorer that much more disappointing, tbh.

If you think the refs hating him is hyperbole then you didn’t watch enough Cousins games. That’s what the famous, “It’s getting ridiculous” quote is about. The refs absolutely hated his guts and tried to stick it to him every chance they got. He got his in-spite of it, Towns has never faced playing 8 on 5 like that.

No, I understand that. I watched a bunch of Sacramento ball when Cousins was there because I like post players and still do some player development for post skills. He has skills... but he's also bad at stuff that people think he's good at. His ability to finish a lot of the shots you're talking about isn't consistent. He's actually worse at those things than Al Jefferson, for sure. Jefferson couldn't draw fouls like Cousins and couldn't finish inside as well, of course, so he ended up being even less effective as a focal scorer. And he wasn't quite the rebounder or passer.

But ultimately, Cousins doesn't have the skill profile to match Towns. Doesn't have the mastery of what he chooses to do. He's stronger. But he simply isn't as good, and the gap isn't small.

[SNPA]

It’s not aesthetics. It’s talent.

You can repeat that as often as you like, but it doesn't actually turn into meaningful results.

Cousins is also on a totally different level talent-wise than Al Jefferson.

Which makes his profile as a scorer that much more disappointing, tbh.

If you think the refs hating him is hyperbole then you didn’t watch enough Cousins games. That’s what the famous, “It’s getting ridiculous” quote is about. The refs absolutely hated his guts and tried to stick it to him every chance they got. He got his in-spite of it, Towns has never faced playing 8 on 5 like that.

No, I understand that. I watched a bunch of Sacramento ball when Cousins was there because I like post players and still do some player development for post skills. He has skills... but he's also bad at stuff that people think he's good at. His ability to finish a lot of the shots you're talking about isn't consistent. He's actually worse at those things than Al Jefferson, for sure. Jefferson couldn't draw fouls like Cousins and couldn't finish inside as well, of course, so he ended up being even less effective as a focal scorer. And he wasn't quite the rebounder or passer.

But ultimately, Cousins doesn't have the skill profile to match Towns. Doesn't have the mastery of what he chooses to do. He's stronger. But he simply isn't as good, and the gap isn't small.

I’d like to hear more about this skill profile argument. I watched 90+% of his games pre-Pelicans. Skill profile is perhaps Cousins biggest strength.

Results are heavily team influenced. Cousins was always screwed in this respect and his game didn’t grow as high as possible impact-wise because of it. That doesn’t take away from his massive talent.

Efficiency is also team influenced and doesn’t inherently make one a better player, it can also mean one is a more limited player, and perhaps better at a more limited role.

Lots of ATG’s weren’t efficient everywhere (see Jordan, 3’s). It’s not an exact measure of talent and varies by era.

Cousins wants to kill. That’s his biggest issue, he wanted it to much. I’d take that over Town’s child-like indifference everyday. Jimmy Butler and Cousins would be combustible but Jimmy would never leave because Cousins lacks heart.