Danny Ainge just took the whole NBA execs to school

[CallMeKahn]

The only thing Ainge did was set his price and some one paid it. That's a simple Econ. 101 course you can take at a community college.

[leolozon]

Show me one team that has won a championship by hoarding picks and turning the franchise into a disgrace for years on end.

It’s the most lauded team-building strategy that has never produced even a finalist.

Ainge collected picks to get Tatum and Brown and last time I checked they were in the Finals last year...

How many teams have done what you are saying? It seems like you are talking about not even 0.1% of the teams in the history of the NBA, which is pretty unfair considering your odds of winning right now are 3.33%..

Teams have become finalists by building through the draft, it's weird that you would try to be that specific.

[Mavrelous]

I'm not sure people are saying Utah is a lock for the PO or for 50 wins.
Utah finished 5th, and they are objectively worse than any of the teams that finished ahead of them, they were luxury tax team and they spent protected 1sts to trim salary, and lost 34 y/o Ingles who was an improtant glue guy for them, below them you had the Nuggets and the Clippers who are better teams when healthy, AND, you have up and coming NOP and Lakers who are also crapshoot, Blazers rebuilt around Dame and Kings are still trying, Gobert is 30, Conely is 35(!) and laid an egg twice in a row in the PO, Mitchell hasn't played defense in 3 years, Bogi and Clarkson, are 33 and 30 respectively and on the last controlled year of their deal, they have no young talent to speak of except Butler.
Utah was a play in team, with chemistry problems, new coach and only TPMLE to improve, that was the perfect timing to tear it down, Gobert was abused twice (not his fault, but still abused) against Kahwi-less Clippers (games 5+6)and Luka-less Mavs (games 1-3), Mitchell had a horrible showing against the Mavs.
UTA had to rebuild, and Ainge set an extremely high price tag, and managed to get it.
I like the deal for the Cavs, they needed a perimeter scorer, Mitchell is better than anything they had, but Mitchell himself is a 3rd tier player, he is undersized, and he is a bad defender, he has the tools to be better, but he wasn't in the most important time in UTA, this isn't even PG13 who is a better playmaker and was 3rd in MVP voting.

[cgf]

I guess I'm just not as high on Lauri & Sexton as some folks cause that seems rather disappointing for Mitchell, even if he bolts.

[QingJames]

Show me one team that has won a championship by hoarding picks and turning the franchise into a disgrace for years on end.

It’s the most lauded team-building strategy that has never produced even a finalist.

I take issue with the bolded part, since Ainge literally built the current Celtics core that just reached the Finals a few months ago. With his war chest of draft picks, Ainge drafted a slew of stars and valuable role players:

Tatum (#3)
Brown (#3)
Smart (#6)
Robert Williams (#27)
Grant Williams (#23)
Pritchard (#26)

Then there was Terry Rozier (picked 16th) and Kelly Olynyk (picked 13th), two role players that are still thriving in the league today, and Romeo Langford and Aaron Nesmith (both 14th) who were eventually packaged for Derrick White and Malcolm Brogdon (though Brad is the one who pulled these moves). Ainge had some misses, but that's to be expected when you're picking in the mid- to late-first round and second round too often. But he nailed all of his high lottery picks, and the overall result of his drafting resulted in a team that came within 2 wins of a title.

Point taken, and this is probably the closest example. However, I would still suggest that the Celtics - while selling off their aging, top players for picks - did not commit to this wholesale teardown, putting together the worst possible team for years and years and years like OKC and now Utah is doing.

[hauntedcomputer]

Two of the picks will be Bronny and Bryce, Lebron lands in Salt Lake, Ainge lights a turd cigar

Genius

[Ruma85]

Two of the picks will be Bronny and Bryce, Lebron lands in Salt Lake, Ainge lights a turd cigar

Genius

Imagine espn with that kind of headline

[Pointgod]

I guess I'm just not as high on Lauri & Sexton as some folks cause that seems rather disappointing for Mitchell, even if he bolts.

Because they have to justify their Ainge jock riding for this weak package that came back compared to what Ainge put out to his friends in the media. Remember we were told that the Gobert trade screwed the market and Mitchell was going to get at least 5 first round picks blah blah blah, but it ends up just a fine return. Nothing special.

[Godymas]

all this tells me is, you don't trade a superstar that's above the age of 33

[CallMeKahn]

Two of the picks will be Bronny and Bryce, Lebron lands in Salt Lake, Ainge lights a turd cigar

Genius

Imagine espn with that kind of headline

I now have an image of Ainge inhaling a smoking log stoolie that it will take a few more cups of coffee to wash out.

[MemphisX]

Everyone loves picks until they come up empty. Betting against Ant/KAT/Jaden and Garland/Allen/Mobely is a strategy I guess. Not one I would be excited about if I were a Jazz fan. There is a scenario where Ant and Moblely are MVP candidates when those picks are due.

[celtxman]

Stockpiling picks is the easiest thing to do. It's turning those picks into assets that is the difficult part. Those picks are likely all going to be late in the first round and Ainge has a terrible track record of drafting in that range.

Agreed. Danny Ainge overall did a good job with the Celtics. But the Nets were certainly complicit with this. People talk a lot about Ainge getting the best of the Nets in trading aging Pierce and Garnett. But once the Nets made that trade they gave the experiment just one year before the owner Prokhorov got cold feet. Pierce was let go after a year, and the Nets went in a fire sale of Joe Johnson, Deron Williams etc. It was inexplicable. The Nets played a tough playoff series the first year against the Cavs and they played without Brook Lopez who was a real factor back then. Other than Prokhorov's money there was no incentive to blow things up and far more to lose. And lose, the Nets did. Instead of the original thought of the Celtics getting back picks in the mid teens to the 20's they got back #1, #3, and #8 overall- Tatum and Brown.
Ainge never did anything with mid to late 1st round picks except Rob Williams. So we'll see what these picks do for Utah. He needs to do better managing picks that will likely be in the high teens or 20's.

[Exp0sed]

I guess I'm just not as high on Lauri & Sexton as some folks cause that seems rather disappointing for Mitchell, even if he bolts.

Because they have to justify their Ainge jock riding for this weak package that came back compared to what Ainge put out to his friends in the media. Remember we were told that the Gobert trade screwed the market and Mitchell was going to get at least 5 first round picks blah blah blah, but it ends up just a fine return. Nothing special.

Lauri and Sexton are just salary fillers, throw-ins.

They'll help the tank, don't forget the league and fans frown upon G-league level teams like the one Philly was running back in the process days, you have to pay someone there are salary floors, and it's best that they'd be NBA level players so you team might win 25 games but not embarass the franchise and league while winning 10 games a season. those two fit this bill perfectly

If what you "were told" was to expect 5 frps for Mitchell, that's about what happened lol
3 picks (entirely unprotected), 1 player who was just selected 14th (an additional 1st) and 2 swaps,
Four Frp's + 2 swaps sounds alot like 5 Frps, no?

edit: p.s - in a perfect world you get a couple guys that can be flipped later for future assets, I agree that in the case of Lauri and Sexton - that's kind of unlikely but ya never know..

[cgf]

I guess I'm just not as high on Lauri & Sexton as some folks cause that seems rather disappointing for Mitchell, even if he bolts.

Because they have to justify their Ainge jock riding for this weak package that came back compared to what Ainge put out to his friends in the media. Remember we were told that the Gobert trade screwed the market and Mitchell was going to get at least 5 first round picks blah blah blah, but it ends up just a fine return. Nothing special.

Lauri and Sexton are just salary fillers, throw-ins.
They'll help the tank, don't forget the league and fans frown upon G-league level teams like the one Philly was running back in the process days, you have to pay someone there are salary floors, and it's best that they'd be NBA level players so you team might win 25 games but not embarass the franchise and league while winning 10 games a season. those two fit this bill perfectly

If what you "were told" was to expect 5 frps for Mitchell, that's about what happened lol
3 picks (entirely unprotected), 1 player who was just selected 14th (an additional 1st) and 2 swaps,
Four Frp's + 2 swaps sounds alot like 5 Frps, no?

Not really, swaps that are unlikely to be used are very different from extra FRPs. So it sounds a lot more like 3 FRPs + 2 swaps + a prospect, than it does 5 FRPs.

[CallMeKahn]

Because they have to justify their Ainge jock riding for this weak package that came back compared to what Ainge put out to his friends in the media. Remember we were told that the Gobert trade screwed the market and Mitchell was going to get at least 5 first round picks blah blah blah, but it ends up just a fine return. Nothing special.

Lauri and Sexton are just salary fillers, throw-ins.
They'll help the tank, don't forget the league and fans frown upon G-league level teams like the one Philly was running back in the process days, you have to pay someone there are salary floors, and it's best that they'd be NBA level players so you team might win 25 games but not embarass the franchise and league while winning 10 games a season. those two fit this bill perfectly

If what you "were told" was to expect 5 frps for Mitchell, that's about what happened lol
3 picks (entirely unprotected), 1 player who was just selected 14th (an additional 1st) and 2 swaps,
Four Frp's + 2 swaps sounds alot like 5 Frps, no?

Not really, swaps that are unlikely to be used are very different from extra FRPs. So it sounds a lot more like 3 FRPs + 2 swaps + a prospect, than it does 5 FRPs.

Agreed. I view it as "conditional first rounders if the conveying team sucks", which probably won't happen with Cleveland. But it's clear Ainge's priority was the unprotected picks above all else.

[chrisab123]

Seems like he took two GMs to “school” not the entire NBA. And frankly I like the trade for Cleveland. They’re stacked with great young players as is and have the perfect landing spot for Mitchell imo.

He's going to push a trade to the Heat sooner than later. Thats a lot to give up for a 2 year window before Mitchell asks out for Miami.

[Ill News]

Show me one team that has won a championship by hoarding picks and turning the franchise into a disgrace for years on end.

It’s the most lauded team-building strategy that has never produced even a finalist.

I take issue with the bolded part, since Ainge literally built the current Celtics core that just reached the Finals a few months ago. With his war chest of draft picks, Ainge drafted a slew of stars and valuable role players:

Tatum (#3)
Brown (#3)
Smart (#6)
Robert Williams (#27)
Grant Williams (#23)
Pritchard (#26)

Then there was Terry Rozier (picked 16th) and Kelly Olynyk (picked 13th), two role players that are still thriving in the league today, and Romeo Langford and Aaron Nesmith (both 14th) who were eventually packaged for Derrick White and Malcolm Brogdon (though Brad is the one who pulled these moves). Ainge had some misses, but that's to be expected when you're picking in the mid- to late-first round and second round too often. But he nailed all of his high lottery picks, and the overall result of his drafting resulted in a team that came within 2 wins of a title.

Point taken, and this is probably the closest example. However, I would still suggest that the Celtics - while selling off their aging, top players for picks - did not commit to this wholesale teardown, putting together the worst possible team for years and years and years like OKC and now Utah is doing.

Hmm, you're a bit off there again lol. People forget that when Ainge sold off KG and Pierce, and eventually Rondo, his intention was for the Celtics to be as bad as possible for quite a while. Remember who was on that 2014 C's team? Gerald Wallace, Kris Humphries, Evan Turner, Jeff Green, Jordan Crawford...you get the picture.

The problem with his plan? He hired Brad Stevens as his rebuild coach, who in his 2nd year of coaching already stowed a team of misfits and castoffs into the playoffs, and they never missed the playoffs again lol. If it wasn't for Brad being a coaching genius, Ainge would've been perfectly happy sucking for a few years so he could have multiple lottery picks (both the Celtics' own picks and the Nets picks). Because Brad complicated his plan, he pivoted towards balancing a rebuild with a retool; he enticed free agents like Al Horford and Gordon Hayward to come to the C's in an effort to compete while at the same time developing the talent they had drafted (Smart, Brown, and Tatum). That's why Ainge didn't commit to a total rebuild, even though that was his clear intention from the start.

But you're right in that what OKC and Utah (and Philly before) are doing is just a different level of sucktitude. The number of picks these two teams are hoarding is just staggering, and the players that OKC trots out every night aren't even G-League level sometimes.

[Ryoga Hibiki]

One question. Is there anybody here who will be willing to pay for season tickets to watch THT and Sexton play? I would be excited if I was Wolfes or Cavs fan to watch their new teams play but if I was Jazz fan what would I do? Go to hibernation. Support some other team temperately until 2027 comes so Utah drafts a young exciting player, and then wait for another 3-4 years for him to develop.
Wake me up in 10 years.

Jazz tickets will be cheap as hell are you kidding!? Ask how many Sixers fans how painful it was to be able to actually go to their games during the Hinkie era.

Yes but still. I wouldn't go to their games if they pay me. People can say whatever they want but Jazz team that was broken played beautiful basketball, competed, and won some games. Didn't win the championship but 29 teams didn't either.
Watching THT and Sexton play can cause serious damage to your brain.

it depends on how they play.
you could actually watch some good basketball, even if with very few wins.

___
Sent from my Nokia 3210 using RealGM mobile app

[DavidSterned]

Every player is a flawed player until they win the whole thing. It is the front office’s job to build a winning squad around flawed players

Interesting logic. So by extension is every flawed player or collection of flawed players simply a good front office away from winning the whole thing? Wonder why the 2011-12 Bobcats never got their parade in the sun.

LOL. If you believe Mitchell and Gobert were 11-12 Bobcats level, I don’t know what to tell you. You need to start watching some games

Just poking holes in your "flawed players can win" logic.

And they weren't even close to championship level either. Like, at all....

[Pointgod]

I guess I'm just not as high on Lauri & Sexton as some folks cause that seems rather disappointing for Mitchell, even if he bolts.

Because they have to justify their Ainge jock riding for this weak package that came back compared to what Ainge put out to his friends in the media. Remember we were told that the Gobert trade screwed the market and Mitchell was going to get at least 5 first round picks blah blah blah, but it ends up just a fine return. Nothing special.

Lauri and Sexton are just salary fillers, throw-ins.

They'll help the tank, don't forget the league and fans frown upon G-league level teams like the one Philly was running back in the process days, you have to pay someone there are salary floors, and it's best that they'd be NBA level players so you team might win 25 games but not embarass the franchise and league while winning 10 games a season. those two fit this bill perfectly

If what you "were told" was to expect 5 frps for Mitchell, that's about what happened lol
3 picks (entirely unprotected), 1 player who was just selected 14th (an additional 1st) and 2 swaps,
Four Frp's + 2 swaps sounds alot like 5 Frps, no?

edit: p.s - in a perfect world you get a couple guys that can be flipped later for future assets, I agree that in the case of Lauri and Sexton - that's kind of unlikely but ya never know..

Swaps aren’t first round picks. Other than Jaylen Brown the only other consequential pick swap I found in fairly recent history was the Sixers swapping pick 5 for 3 with Sacramento. I’d guess the probability of a swap even conveying is like less 5%. The Jazz are going to be a bad team for a loooooong time so any hope of them better than the Cavs is slim.

Going back to initial reports, Ainge pumped up Mitchell’s value to the level of 5 first round picks plus 3-4 additional assets so no this trade didn’t meet that level. 3 picks and Abaji was a throw in that was widely criticized as a bad pick. Sexton and Markkanen are filler. This trade got 3 picks from a young team that already has two all-stars, a potential top 10 player and zero incentive to tank over the next decade. It’s fair value for Mitchell but it’s not some crazy return like some people are making it out to be