Options to fix the PF hole

[PJSteven22]

In effect, the arguments I am seeing are not that PWill can be a quality starting big. They are that a quality big isn't needed.

There is no debating that PWill is, by comparison, small for the PF spot. He is almost exactly the average size and weight of a SF.

The Bulls success early with Javonte was due to his energy level. ("There are 5 Javonte Greens on the floor") but it was still sub-par play at the 4. Later in the season that all went away. I have never seen Pat play at that energy level for a half of a game, more or less half a season.

So the debate isn't really whether PWill is a PF. It is whether or not this team needs a starting PF. I believe they do. I believe the lack of size paired with Vuc is going to be a big issue. I hope I am wrong.

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The problem is more so Vuc than Pat. He’s simply doesn’t bring the rim protection we need and gets hunted on defense. PF and SF are becoming more interchangeable. This is not 1995.

The problem is not Vooch and rim protection if it was they could have easily sold out on any of the available rim protectors available in free agency. The problem is that our PF spot is used to hide Demar and while on offense hes godly in insolation on defense hes non existent in every way possible and all bringing in a rim protector with limited offense does is make you more reliant on Demar being on the court.

As I showed above Demar spent 38% of the time at PF the most on the team but hes not bringing the same defensive hustle that Javonte or Pat brings in terms of help defense and even attempting to challenge shots. Ayo is second on this team in challenging 2 pt shots go find another team in which a backup PG is second on a team in challenging shots with supposedly interchangeable forwards

Both things can be true. Vuc’s rim protection and Demar’s defense are both problems. I would say Vuc’s rim protection is higher on the totem pole because it would solve both problems at least somewhat. Who are you replacing DeMar with? Even if you do, the rim protection issue is still there and the offense plummets without Demar.

[chitownsports4ever]

Both things can be true. Vuc’s rim protection and Demar’s defense are both problems. I would say Vuc’s rim protection is higher on the totem pole because it would solve both problems at least somewhat. Who are you replacing DeMar with? Even if you do, the rim protection issue is still there and the offense plummets without Demar.

As I said you think they watched all the film of this past season and knew every defensive call and then decided that the biggest problem was " VOOCH's rim protection" and had quite the selection of rim protectors for the MLE but then decided naw we will go with Drummond ?

The issue has never simply been Vooch its been who do you have behind him thats willing to do the dirty work because it cant all be Zo, AC, Javonte and Ayo because they are all guards . Having Demar at PF for 38% of the time has ben a disaster defensively because hes not gonna challenge shot despite having length and athleticism


Demar 24 blocks with the most minutes on the team
Ayo with 29 blocks
Zo with 31 blocks in half a season

but blocks are not everything the Heat were last in blocks but first in taking charges as the focus is on being where you are supposed to be in the defensive rotation and putting your your body on the line . We know Demar aint taking no charges .

Now Demar had to carry a huge load offensively with all the injuries but it seems to me that AKME came to the conclusion that aint no MLE rim protection gonna be able to carry Demar defensively . They decided that the best way to tackle the Demar problem was to add 2 veterans with offensive capabilities and with internal offensive improvement they can reduce Demars minutes .

[sco]

Both things can be true. Vuc’s rim protection and Demar’s defense are both problems. I would say Vuc’s rim protection is higher on the totem pole because it would solve both problems at least somewhat. Who are you replacing DeMar with? Even if you do, the rim protection issue is still there and the offense plummets without Demar.

As I said you think they watched all the film of this past season and knew every defensive call and then decided that the biggest problem was " VOOCH's rim protection" and had quite the selection of rim protectors for the MLE but then decided naw we will go with Drummond ?

The issue has never simply been Vooch its been who do you have behind him thats willing to do the dirty work because it cant all be Zo, AC, Javonte and Ayo because they are all guards . Having Demar at PF for 38% of the time has ben a disaster defensively because hes not gonna challenge shot despite having length and athleticism


Demar 24 blocks with the most minutes on the team
Ayo with 29 blocks
Zo with 31 blocks in half a season

but blocks are not everything the Heat were last in blocks but first in taking charges as the focus is on being where you are supposed to be in the defensive rotation and putting your your body on the line . We know Demar aint taking no charges .

Now Demar had to carry a huge load offensively with all the injuries but it seems to me that AKME came to the conclusion that aint no MLE rim protection gonna be able to carry Demar defensively . They decided that the best way to tackle the Demar problem was to add 2 veterans with offensive capabilities and with internal offensive improvement they can reduce Demars minutes .

I'll add to that, rim protector FA's were getting around the full MLE. Given that they went the std MLE route, they seemed to be primarily focused on bench scoring...first going after Gallo, who gave both scoring and filling the backup PF role, followed by going the 3-D route (Dragon, DJJ and Drummond...not the other kind of 3-D) which provided scoring off the bench, a viable backup C and an underrated all-around backup PF. The second level of those moves is that the drop-off of losing Vuc and/or Coby for a possible future trade was diminished, should an opportunity arise.

[WindyCityBorn]

Both things can be true. Vuc’s rim protection and Demar’s defense are both problems. I would say Vuc’s rim protection is higher on the totem pole because it would solve both problems at least somewhat. Who are you replacing DeMar with? Even if you do, the rim protection issue is still there and the offense plummets without Demar.

As I said you think they watched all the film of this past season and knew every defensive call and then decided that the biggest problem was " VOOCH's rim protection" and had quite the selection of rim protectors for the MLE but then decided naw we will go with Drummond ?

The issue has never simply been Vooch its been who do you have behind him thats willing to do the dirty work because it cant all be Zo, AC, Javonte and Ayo because they are all guards . Having Demar at PF for 38% of the time has ben a disaster defensively because hes not gonna challenge shot despite having length and athleticism


Demar 24 blocks with the most minutes on the team
Ayo with 29 blocks
Zo with 31 blocks in half a season

but blocks are not everything the Heat were last in blocks but first in taking charges as the focus is on being where you are supposed to be in the defensive rotation and putting your your body on the line . We know Demar aint taking no charges .

Now Demar had to carry a huge load offensively with all the injuries but it seems to me that AKME came to the conclusion that aint no MLE rim protection gonna be able to carry Demar defensively . They decided that the best way to tackle the Demar problem was to add 2 veterans with offensive capabilities and with internal offensive improvement they can reduce Demars minutes .

I'll add to that, rim protector FA's were getting around the full MLE. Given that they went the std MLE route, they seemed to be primarily focused on bench scoring...first going after Gallo, who gave both scoring and filling the backup PF role, followed by going the 3-D route (Dragon, DJJ and Drummond...not the other kind of 3-D) which provided scoring off the bench, a viable backup C and an underrated all-around backup PF. The second level of those moves is that the drop-off of losing Vuc and/or Coby for a possible future trade was diminished, should an opportunity arise.

I can’t see Drummond as an adequate replacement for Vuc. He is on the vet minimum for a reason. When we didn’t go hard after any of the young centers on the free agent market that indicated Vuc is in their plans past this season.

[sco]

As I said you think they watched all the film of this past season and knew every defensive call and then decided that the biggest problem was " VOOCH's rim protection" and had quite the selection of rim protectors for the MLE but then decided naw we will go with Drummond ?

The issue has never simply been Vooch its been who do you have behind him thats willing to do the dirty work because it cant all be Zo, AC, Javonte and Ayo because they are all guards . Having Demar at PF for 38% of the time has ben a disaster defensively because hes not gonna challenge shot despite having length and athleticism


Demar 24 blocks with the most minutes on the team
Ayo with 29 blocks
Zo with 31 blocks in half a season

but blocks are not everything the Heat were last in blocks but first in taking charges as the focus is on being where you are supposed to be in the defensive rotation and putting your your body on the line . We know Demar aint taking no charges .

Now Demar had to carry a huge load offensively with all the injuries but it seems to me that AKME came to the conclusion that aint no MLE rim protection gonna be able to carry Demar defensively . They decided that the best way to tackle the Demar problem was to add 2 veterans with offensive capabilities and with internal offensive improvement they can reduce Demars minutes .

I'll add to that, rim protector FA's were getting around the full MLE. Given that they went the std MLE route, they seemed to be primarily focused on bench scoring...first going after Gallo, who gave both scoring and filling the backup PF role, followed by going the 3-D route (Dragon, DJJ and Drummond...not the other kind of 3-D) which provided scoring off the bench, a viable backup C and an underrated all-around backup PF. The second level of those moves is that the drop-off of losing Vuc and/or Coby for a possible future trade was diminished, should an opportunity arise.

I can’t see Drummond as an adequate replacement for Vuc. He is on the vet minimum for a reason. When we didn’t go hard after any of the young centers on the free agent market that indicated Vuc is in their plans past this season.

I think last year's version of both players with Vuc not hitting barns and Drummond doing some perimeter passing are closer than you do. That said, I could only see Vuc moved in a blockbuster deal, so adding a star would need to be factored into that equation.

[chitownsports4ever]

As I said you think they watched all the film of this past season and knew every defensive call and then decided that the biggest problem was " VOOCH's rim protection" and had quite the selection of rim protectors for the MLE but then decided naw we will go with Drummond ?

The issue has never simply been Vooch its been who do you have behind him thats willing to do the dirty work because it cant all be Zo, AC, Javonte and Ayo because they are all guards . Having Demar at PF for 38% of the time has ben a disaster defensively because hes not gonna challenge shot despite having length and athleticism


Demar 24 blocks with the most minutes on the team
Ayo with 29 blocks
Zo with 31 blocks in half a season

but blocks are not everything the Heat were last in blocks but first in taking charges as the focus is on being where you are supposed to be in the defensive rotation and putting your your body on the line . We know Demar aint taking no charges .

Now Demar had to carry a huge load offensively with all the injuries but it seems to me that AKME came to the conclusion that aint no MLE rim protection gonna be able to carry Demar defensively . They decided that the best way to tackle the Demar problem was to add 2 veterans with offensive capabilities and with internal offensive improvement they can reduce Demars minutes .

I'll add to that, rim protector FA's were getting around the full MLE. Given that they went the std MLE route, they seemed to be primarily focused on bench scoring...first going after Gallo, who gave both scoring and filling the backup PF role, followed by going the 3-D route (Dragon, DJJ and Drummond...not the other kind of 3-D) which provided scoring off the bench, a viable backup C and an underrated all-around backup PF. The second level of those moves is that the drop-off of losing Vuc and/or Coby for a possible future trade was diminished, should an opportunity arise.

I can’t see Drummond as an adequate replacement for Vuc. He is on the vet minimum for a reason. When we didn’t go hard after any of the young centers on the free agent market that indicated Vuc is in their plans past this season.

he must've gotten word on that as well


https://www.nbcsports.com/chicago/bulls/report-bulls-center-nikola-vucevic-buys-475-million-chicago-home

[PJSteven22]

Both things can be true. Vuc’s rim protection and Demar’s defense are both problems. I would say Vuc’s rim protection is higher on the totem pole because it would solve both problems at least somewhat. Who are you replacing DeMar with? Even if you do, the rim protection issue is still there and the offense plummets without Demar.

As I said you think they watched all the film of this past season and knew every defensive call and then decided that the biggest problem was " VOOCH's rim protection" and had quite the selection of rim protectors for the MLE but then decided naw we will go with Drummond ?

The issue has never simply been Vooch its been who do you have behind him thats willing to do the dirty work because it cant all be Zo, AC, Javonte and Ayo because they are all guards . Having Demar at PF for 38% of the time has ben a disaster defensively because hes not gonna challenge shot despite having length and athleticism


Demar 24 blocks with the most minutes on the team
Ayo with 29 blocks
Zo with 31 blocks in half a season

but blocks are not everything the Heat were last in blocks but first in taking charges as the focus is on being where you are supposed to be in the defensive rotation and putting your your body on the line . We know Demar aint taking no charges .

Now Demar had to carry a huge load offensively with all the injuries but it seems to me that AKME came to the conclusion that aint no MLE rim protection gonna be able to carry Demar defensively . They decided that the best way to tackle the Demar problem was to add 2 veterans with offensive capabilities and with internal offensive improvement they can reduce Demars minutes .

It’s not as simple as that. It’s clear that they were told to avoid the tax. Hence acquiring two cheap Vets. Stevie Wonder can see their biggest problem but they are cheap so they chose not to fix it. With better rim protection you kill two birds with one stone. First you have better interior defense. Second you can hide Demar better defensively.

[chitownsports4ever]

Both things can be true. Vuc’s rim protection and Demar’s defense are both problems. I would say Vuc’s rim protection is higher on the totem pole because it would solve both problems at least somewhat. Who are you replacing DeMar with? Even if you do, the rim protection issue is still there and the offense plummets without Demar.

As I said you think they watched all the film of this past season and knew every defensive call and then decided that the biggest problem was " VOOCH's rim protection" and had quite the selection of rim protectors for the MLE but then decided naw we will go with Drummond ?

The issue has never simply been Vooch its been who do you have behind him thats willing to do the dirty work because it cant all be Zo, AC, Javonte and Ayo because they are all guards . Having Demar at PF for 38% of the time has ben a disaster defensively because hes not gonna challenge shot despite having length and athleticism


Demar 24 blocks with the most minutes on the team
Ayo with 29 blocks
Zo with 31 blocks in half a season

but blocks are not everything the Heat were last in blocks but first in taking charges as the focus is on being where you are supposed to be in the defensive rotation and putting your your body on the line . We know Demar aint taking no charges .

Now Demar had to carry a huge load offensively with all the injuries but it seems to me that AKME came to the conclusion that aint no MLE rim protection gonna be able to carry Demar defensively . They decided that the best way to tackle the Demar problem was to add 2 veterans with offensive capabilities and with internal offensive improvement they can reduce Demars minutes .

It’s not as simple as that. It’s clear that they were told to avoid the tax. Hence acquiring two cheap Vets. Stevie Wonder can see their biggest problem but they are cheap so they chose not to fix it. With better rim protection you kill two birds with one stone. First you have better interior defense. Second you can hide Demar better defensively.

So they ignored the so called biggest problem on the team ? Cmon now lol they could've got Whiteside but that still wont cover for Demar not contributing NOTHING defensively at either forward spot . There is no magical rim protector for that and they know that.

You wouldn't have killed two birds with one stone all you wouldve done is beholden yourself to Demar being on the court 37-40 mpg again .

[PJSteven22]

As I said you think they watched all the film of this past season and knew every defensive call and then decided that the biggest problem was " VOOCH's rim protection" and had quite the selection of rim protectors for the MLE but then decided naw we will go with Drummond ?

The issue has never simply been Vooch its been who do you have behind him thats willing to do the dirty work because it cant all be Zo, AC, Javonte and Ayo because they are all guards . Having Demar at PF for 38% of the time has ben a disaster defensively because hes not gonna challenge shot despite having length and athleticism


Demar 24 blocks with the most minutes on the team
Ayo with 29 blocks
Zo with 31 blocks in half a season

but blocks are not everything the Heat were last in blocks but first in taking charges as the focus is on being where you are supposed to be in the defensive rotation and putting your your body on the line . We know Demar aint taking no charges .

Now Demar had to carry a huge load offensively with all the injuries but it seems to me that AKME came to the conclusion that aint no MLE rim protection gonna be able to carry Demar defensively . They decided that the best way to tackle the Demar problem was to add 2 veterans with offensive capabilities and with internal offensive improvement they can reduce Demars minutes .

It’s not as simple as that. It’s clear that they were told to avoid the tax. Hence acquiring two cheap Vets. Stevie Wonder can see their biggest problem but they are cheap so they chose not to fix it. With better rim protection you kill two birds with one stone. First you have better interior defense. Second you can hide Demar better defensively.

So they ignored the so called biggest problem on the team ? Cmon now lol they could've got Whiteside but that still wont cover for Demar not contributing NOTHING defensively at either forward spot . There is no magical rim protector for that and they know that.

You wouldn't have killed two birds with one stone all you wouldve done is beholden yourself to Demar being on the court 37-40 mpg again .

Yes they ignored the two biggest problems: rim protection and shooting. It’s a tough reality but yes they avoided their two biggest issues because the are cheap. Disagree. Whiteside is meh. There were guys that were available such as Hartenstein. The Bulls were too cheap to spend on a rim protector. If you have an actual rim protector, teams can’t just spam Vuc and Demar pick and roll like the end of last year.

They only way they would be playing Derozan that many minutes is if they have a bunch of injuries. We’ll never agree on this so I’m going to drop this.

[StunnerKO]

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AK was interested in him in 2020 , at this point of the season he might come for cheap on a 1 year. Tho I know we have Drummond a cheap talent is a cheap talent at this stage . But I’m still holding out hope for Melo

[LateNight]

Watch on YouTube

AK was interested in him in 2020 , at this point of the season he might come for cheap on a 1 year. Tho I know we have Drummond a cheap talent is a cheap talent at this stage . But I’m still holding out hope for Melo

So, his charges were reduced to a misdemeanor a couple days ago - but the reason he wasn't signed was because he was facing 5 years in prison. I think now that he's available, a lot of teams will be pursuing him

[MGB8]

How about Rudy Gay?

[sco]

How about Rudy Gay?

I like Gay, but I'd rather keep White if that was the deal straight-up? I would do it if they threw in a couple 2nd rounders.

[BullChit]

Let's bring Melo back.... Do it AK for nostalgia sake...

Id even take a rumour at this point that we are interested so we can start a "Melo to Chicago" thread

[ChettheJet]

The more his name is out there the more I wouldn't mind Carmelo Anthony. He knows what his role is, plays a smart game and coming off the bench he could flat out score.

The other reason would be for Melo to walk into the building and think I could have signed here with Derrick Rose,Joakim Noah, Taj Gibson, Jimmy Butler, plus Kirk Hinrich, Mike Dunleavy jr, Nikola Mirotic, E'Twan Moore, Doug McDermott, and he could think of what it would have been like to play for a championship fr 3,4,5 years. But chose the Knicks and all he could do was play out his career

[prolific passer]

Slim pickens for free agent power forwards this offseason.

[petebraun0]

I found this list of guys who are possibly available for our PF need.
https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/current_free_agents

Does anyone on the above list seem like taking a shot at?

I would love to bring in Tyler Bey, if he is available. Is he? (He seems to be in Israel.)

I could even see us bringing in a decent SF to play PF, if needed.
We need something, even if it means cutting another player loose, such as Marco.

[GoBlue72391]

There is no hole at PF

What hole?

Aged like milk.

[panthermark]

I think the hardest part of any significant upgrade at the 4 would be matching contract dollars, I wouldn't move any of our bigger contract guys which limited our ability to get a new 4.

One 4 who is on a smaller annual value deal and is playing really well this season as been Kyle Kuzma, and I have no idea what Washington's plan is there after trading for KP at the deadline.

And yes Kuzma has been good this year.

That is EXACTLY who I wanted at the deadline. (ClintEastwood wanted him as well....I quoted him on Page 10 of Trade thread #5 on January 8th).

Makes $13M this year.
Makes $13M next year.
Has a PO for $13M in 23-34.

Even had it in the trade forum.
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2156457

Dude turns 27 in July and does not blow up the cap. That is the type of smaller trade that would have made sense. Maybe he is still available this summer, but Pat needs to "show something" in order to make it happen. But the timing does not work....we need "something" right now....not this summer.

In honor of oversized pink sweater dropping 26 on Patty Snell's dome tonight.....

[Global Game]

Free Marko!
He can't be less productive than Patrick.

Perhaps the 44th pick in the 2020 draft, and not the 4th, is what is needed at PF.

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