Eurobasket 2022 (daily OP updates), day 11, all quarter finals teams known, Italy shocks Europe, eliminates Serbia

[Dirk]

Luka in mid season form bricking Fts and complaining to refs.

[lambchop]

this debate has two opinions, naturalized players. Is it a reflextion of inclusion, globalism and anti xenophobia, or is cheap addition that breaks spirit of the international tournament?

Marius Grigonis in todays post game interview kinda mocked the idea after asked about tomorrows game against Bosnia.
- Yes, they have that one point guard, hes very bosnian, I can tell he probably grew up in bosnia. - When asked is he surprised Bosnia is such a strong play off contender - No, we know they are a good team, and when team can just hire up any foreigner, any team's entire dynamic can change.

Lithuania is one of the teams that does not have a naturalized player. Although, you could find hypocrisy in these views, because they have Ignas Brazdeikis on their team, and he was Lithuanian, but he spent most of his life in Canada and didn't even have Lithuanian passport this summer. He definitely did not grow up in Lithuania.

What does grind my gears is when strong teams use that same tactic. The most recent example of that is Spain naturalizing Lorenzo Brown. It is the same thing with Bosnia naturalizing John Roberson with the difference being that Spain didn't need to naturalize Lorenzo Brown to have a chance. They were already one of the strong teams and they have plenty of local talent.

/endrant

I think Spain did that to win the World cup qualifiers. When Rubio comes back I doubt Brown will still be on the team, especially with Nuñez being a year older then. I still think it's a weak move and would compare it to Serbia simply picking up someone like Eric McCollum.

Spain's issue is that, despite having excellent youth development teams, the transition to professional basketball is very tough with the ACB being too strong for most of the young talented players, while their 2nd and 3rd divisions are just ok and most players aren't even professionals. Those young talents would probably have to go abroad to develop, but not everyone is built for that.

[Archx]

Slovenia vs Germany almost feels like Euro finals lol.. Great game.

[Nuntius]

this debate has two opinions, naturalized players. Is it a reflextion of inclusion, globalism and anti xenophobia, or is cheap addition that breaks spirit of the international tournament?

Marius Grigonis in todays post game interview kinda mocked the idea after asked about tomorrows game against Bosnia.
- Yes, they have that one point guard, hes very bosnian, I can tell he probably grew up in bosnia. - When asked is he surprised Bosnia is such a strong play off contender - No, we know they are a good team, and when team can just hire up any foreigner, any team's entire dynamic can change.

Lithuania is one of the teams that does not have a naturalized player. Although, you could find hypocrisy in these views, because they have Ignas Brazdeikis on their team, and he was Lithuanian, but he spent most of his life in Canada and didn't even have Lithuanian passport this summer. He definitely did not grow up in Lithuania.

What does grind my gears is when strong teams use that same tactic. The most recent example of that is Spain naturalizing Lorenzo Brown. It is the same thing with Bosnia naturalizing John Roberson with the difference being that Spain didn't need to naturalize Lorenzo Brown to have a chance. They were already one of the strong teams and they have plenty of local talent.

/endrant

I think Spain did that to win the World cup qualifiers. When Rubio comes back I doubt Brown will still be on the team, especially with Nuñez being a year older then. I still think it's a weak move and would compare it to Serbia simply picking up someone like Eric McCollum.

Spain's issue is that, despite having excellent youth development teams, the transition to professional basketball is very tough with the ACB being too strong for most of the young talented players, while their 2nd and 3rd divisions are just ok and most players aren't even professionals. Those young talents would probably have to go abroad to develop, but not everyone is built for that.

I get that. And since good Spanish players tend to play for NBA or EuroLeague teams that does mean that Spain is one of the countries that is disproportionally hurt by the FIBA window system so they do need to bolster their chances during that time frame. But, as you said, it's a rather weak move.

[UcanUwill]

this debate has two opinions, naturalized players. Is it a reflextion of inclusion, globalism and anti xenophobia, or is cheap addition that breaks spirit of the international tournament?

Marius Grigonis in todays post game interview kinda mocked the idea after asked about tomorrows game against Bosnia.
- Yes, they have that one point guard, hes very bosnian, I can tell he probably grew up in bosnia. - When asked is he surprised Bosnia is such a strong play off contender - No, we know they are a good team, and when team can just hire up any foreigner, any team's entire dynamic can change.

Lithuania is one of the teams that does not have a naturalized player. Although, you could find hypocrisy in these views, because they have Ignas Brazdeikis on their team, and he was Lithuanian, but he spent most of his life in Canada and didn't even have Lithuanian passport this summer. He definitely did not grow up in Lithuania.

What does grind my gears is when strong teams use that same tactic. The most recent example of that is Spain naturalizing Lorenzo Brown. It is the same thing with Bosnia naturalizing John Roberson with the difference being that Spain didn't need to naturalize Lorenzo Brown to have a chance. They were already one of the strong teams and they have plenty of local talent.

/endrant

I think Spain did that to win the World cup qualifiers. When Rubio comes back I doubt Brown will still be on the team, especially with Nuñez being a year older then. I still think it's a weak move and would compare it to Serbia simply picking up someone like Eric McCollum.

Spain's issue is that, despite having excellent youth development teams, the transition to professional basketball is very tough with the ACB being too strong for most of the young talented players, while their 2nd and 3rd divisions are just ok and most players aren't even professionals. Those young talents would probably have to go abroad to develop, but not everyone is built for that.

SPain been naturalizing players forever now. They actually had Brad Oleson on their national camp, a guy who at the end was cut, but that just shows how they don't see this as any problem at all. Some people say how crazy it is to have naturalized player as 12th man, it is so pointless, just put a real spaniard, but Spain see Oleson has spanish passport- they invite him, they dont see any problem.

[Oscar9992]

Surprised Slovenia has so many votes & Spain has only 3%. Spain are title favouries imho!

[UcanUwill]

A good war could be Doncic vs Lamonica. I would love see this, him get refereed by Lamonica again.

it would be good to have Euroleague refs in general, but FIBA remain stubborn and stupid.

[UcanUwill]

Surprised Slovenia has so many votes & Spain has only 3%. Spain are title favouries imho!

I dont think Spain makes out of the top 16, possible none of group A does.

[UcanUwill]

games not finished yet, he might fumble it, but it seems like Joker will join Giannis and Jonas in +40EFF club.

[Nuntius]

What does grind my gears is when strong teams use that same tactic. The most recent example of that is Spain naturalizing Lorenzo Brown. It is the same thing with Bosnia naturalizing John Roberson with the difference being that Spain didn't need to naturalize Lorenzo Brown to have a chance. They were already one of the strong teams and they have plenty of local talent.

/endrant

I think Spain did that to win the World cup qualifiers. When Rubio comes back I doubt Brown will still be on the team, especially with Nuñez being a year older then. I still think it's a weak move and would compare it to Serbia simply picking up someone like Eric McCollum.

Spain's issue is that, despite having excellent youth development teams, the transition to professional basketball is very tough with the ACB being too strong for most of the young talented players, while their 2nd and 3rd divisions are just ok and most players aren't even professionals. Those young talents would probably have to go abroad to develop, but not everyone is built for that.

SPain been naturalizing players forever now. They actually had Brad Oleson on their national camp, a guy who at the end was cut, but that just shows how they don't see this as any problem at all. Some people say how crazy it is to have naturalized player as 12th man, it is so pointless, just put a real spaniard, but Spain see Oleson has spanish passport- they invite him, they dont see any problem.

Lorenzo Brown is still an outlier. Ibaka moved to Spain when he was 17/18 and he played for Spanish teams before getting drafted. Mirotić moved to Spain when he was 14 and he played there before getting drafted as well. Oleson has spent 14 years, almost his whole career, playing for Spanish clubs. All 3 of them had some kind of relationship with the country. Lorenzo Brown has none.

[UcanUwill]

I think Spain did that to win the World cup qualifiers. When Rubio comes back I doubt Brown will still be on the team, especially with Nuñez being a year older then. I still think it's a weak move and would compare it to Serbia simply picking up someone like Eric McCollum.

Spain's issue is that, despite having excellent youth development teams, the transition to professional basketball is very tough with the ACB being too strong for most of the young talented players, while their 2nd and 3rd divisions are just ok and most players aren't even professionals. Those young talents would probably have to go abroad to develop, but not everyone is built for that.

SPain been naturalizing players forever now. They actually had Brad Oleson on their national camp, a guy who at the end was cut, but that just shows how they don't see this as any problem at all. Some people say how crazy it is to have naturalized player as 12th man, it is so pointless, just put a real spaniard, but Spain see Oleson has spanish passport- they invite him, they dont see any problem.

Lorenzo Brown is still an outlier. Ibaka moved to Spain when he was 17/18 and he played for Spanish teams before getting drafted. Mirotić moved to Spain when he was 14 and he played there before getting drafted as well. Oleson has spent 14 years, almost his whole career, playing for Spanish clubs. All 3 of them had some kind of relationship with the country. Lorenzo Brown has none.

Yes, I agree, not every naturalized player is the same, but I still dont like it. Honestly, I do swallow Mirotic and Ibaka naturalization more comfortably, not because they lived in Spain, it is just these could have easily played for their real nation, but if they really prefer to play for another country, ok, thats interesting. I say this, cause most naturalized players are American and you cant say the same thing about them. Most of these guys get hired, because they would never have a shot at playing for team USA. If Lorenzo Brown had a real choice, he would not choose Spain is what I am saying.

[UcanUwill]

Jokic beats Jonas, 46 EFF

[Nuntius]

SPain been naturalizing players forever now. They actually had Brad Oleson on their national camp, a guy who at the end was cut, but that just shows how they don't see this as any problem at all. Some people say how crazy it is to have naturalized player as 12th man, it is so pointless, just put a real spaniard, but Spain see Oleson has spanish passport- they invite him, they dont see any problem.

Lorenzo Brown is still an outlier. Ibaka moved to Spain when he was 17/18 and he played for Spanish teams before getting drafted. Mirotić moved to Spain when he was 14 and he played there before getting drafted as well. Oleson has spent 14 years, almost his whole career, playing for Spanish clubs. All 3 of them had some kind of relationship with the country. Lorenzo Brown has none.

Yes, I agree, not every naturalized player is the same, but I still dont like it. Honestly, I do swallow Mirotic and Ibaka naturalization more comfortably, not because they lived in Spain, it is just these could have easily played for their real nation, but if they really prefer to play for another country, ok, thats interesting. I say this, cause most naturalized players are American and you cant say the same thing about them. Most of these guys get hired, because they would never have a shot at playing for team USA. If Lorenzo Brown had a real choice, he would not choose Spain is what I am saying.

Yeah, I hear you. As I said before, I have no issue if the naturalized player has played in that country's league for a significant period of time. But when it comes to players who have never played in that country then, well, even I consider it problematic

[Salieri]

I think Spain did that to win the World cup qualifiers. When Rubio comes back I doubt Brown will still be on the team, especially with Nuñez being a year older then. I still think it's a weak move and would compare it to Serbia simply picking up someone like Eric McCollum.

Spain's issue is that, despite having excellent youth development teams, the transition to professional basketball is very tough with the ACB being too strong for most of the young talented players, while their 2nd and 3rd divisions are just ok and most players aren't even professionals. Those young talents would probably have to go abroad to develop, but not everyone is built for that.

SPain been naturalizing players forever now. They actually had Brad Oleson on their national camp, a guy who at the end was cut, but that just shows how they don't see this as any problem at all. Some people say how crazy it is to have naturalized player as 12th man, it is so pointless, just put a real spaniard, but Spain see Oleson has spanish passport- they invite him, they dont see any problem.

Lorenzo Brown is still an outlier. Ibaka moved to Spain when he was 17/18 and he played for Spanish teams before getting drafted. Mirotić moved to Spain when he was 14 and he played there before getting drafted as well. Oleson has spent 14 years, almost his whole career, playing for Spanish clubs. All 3 of them had some kind of relationship with the country. Lorenzo Brown has none.

As a spaniard, I strongly dislike this initiative by our team.

We are often accused of bending the rules, of gamesmanship, and troublesome attitudes and tactics. As long as we bring guys who have no business playing for us or continue selecting players that are a shame to the sport such as Rudy Fernández, we will never get rid of that reputation.

Any other country giving a passport to someone in Ibaka's or Mirotic's situation, I don't have a problem with. But not us. We need to keep a cleaner image than others precisely because of our bad rep. And giving Brown (essentially a mercenary who would much rather play for US given the chance) a passport is just a classless move, no other way around it.

[DanEu]

Honestly most of Spain's naturalised players are more of a favour to their euroleage clubs that get an extra foreign player spot then from any real need for extra talent.

[mixerball]

about naturalized players... i get smaller countries, who have very small pool of players, filling a spot with a role player thats missing but i dont get bigger ones like spain, who have a large pool of players still trying naturalizing. i also dont like foreign players being the best players on a team... like mccaleb was years ago for north macedonia where he took an average to decent team with his heroics to the medal(it was fun to watch though)

[Nuntius]

SPain been naturalizing players forever now. They actually had Brad Oleson on their national camp, a guy who at the end was cut, but that just shows how they don't see this as any problem at all. Some people say how crazy it is to have naturalized player as 12th man, it is so pointless, just put a real spaniard, but Spain see Oleson has spanish passport- they invite him, they dont see any problem.

Lorenzo Brown is still an outlier. Ibaka moved to Spain when he was 17/18 and he played for Spanish teams before getting drafted. Mirotić moved to Spain when he was 14 and he played there before getting drafted as well. Oleson has spent 14 years, almost his whole career, playing for Spanish clubs. All 3 of them had some kind of relationship with the country. Lorenzo Brown has none.

As a spaniard, I strongly dislike this initiative by our team.

We are often accused of bending the rules, of gamesmanship, and troublesome attitudes and tactics. As long as we bring guys who have no business playing for us or continue selecting players that are a shame to the sport such as Rudy Fernández, we will never get rid of that reputation.

Any other country giving a passport to someone in Ibaka's or Mirotic's situation, I don't have a problem with. But not us. We need to keep a cleaner image than others precisely because of our bad rep. And giving Brown (essentially a mercenary who would much rather play for US given the chance) a passport is just a classless move, no other way around it.

Yeah, I agree. There really is no way defending Brown's naturalization. The others could be defended but not that one.

[UcanUwill]

Top 6 individual performances from SEP 6th.

#1 Nikola Jokic (SRB) : 29 points (11/13 FG : 1/1 3PT : 6/6 FT); 11 rebounds ; 5 assists ; 4 steals ; 2 blocks (46 EFF)
#2 Giannis Antetokounmpo (GRE) : 41 points (13/18 FG : 0/2 3PT : 15/18 FT); 9 rebounds ; 2 assists ; 1 steal (43 EFF)
#3 Dee Bost (BUL) : 33 points (11/19 FG : 9/14 3PT : 2/6 FT); 4 rebounds ; 12 assists ; 1 steal ; 1 block (38 EFF)
#4 Lauri Markkanen (FIN) : 34 points (9/20 FG : 3/9 3PT : 13/14 FT); 10 rebounds ; 1 assist ; 1 steal ; 1 block (34 EFF)
#5 Luka Doncic (SLO) : 36 points (14/25 FG : 2/8 3PT : 6/9 FT); 10 rebounds ; 4 assists ; 1 block (32 EFF)
#6 Aleksandar Vezenkov (BUL) : 28 points (12/25 FG : 4/10 3PT : 0/1 FT); 14 rebounds ; 3 assists; 1 steal (32 EFF)


Group view



*you can find all previous TOP performers of the day on a first post of this thread, I update every time I update thread's name

[Nuntius]

Top 6 individual performances from SEP 6th.

#1 Nikola Jokic (SRB) : 29 points (11/13 FG : 1/1 3PT : 6/6 FT); 11 rebounds ; 5 assists ; 4 steals ; 2 blocks (46 EFF)
#2 Giannis Antetokounmpo (GRE) : 41 (13/18 FG : 0/2 3PT : 15/18 FT); 9 rebounds ; 2 assists ; 1 steal (43 EFF)
#3 Dee Bost (BUL) : 33 points (11/19 FG : 9/14 3PT : 2/6 FT); 4 rebounds ; 12 assists ; 1 steal ; 1 block (38 EFF)
#4 Lauri Markkanen (FIN) : 34 points (9/20 FG : 3/9 3PT : 13/14 FT); 10 rebounds ; 1 assist ; 1 steal ; 1 block (34 EFF)
#5 Luka Doncic (SLO) : 36 points (14/25 FG : 2/8 3PT : 6/9 FT); 10 rebounds ; 4 assists ; 1 block (32 EFF)
#6 Aleksandar Vezenkov (BUL) : 28 points (12/25 FG : 4/10 3PT : 0/1 FT); 14 rebounds ; 3 assists; 1 steal (32 EFF)


Group view



*you can find all previous TOP performers of the day on a first post of this thread, I update every time I update thread's name

I am so happy that Bulgaria got its first win. Vezenkov's performance throughout this tournament has been great and it's nice to see his team rewarded for a win at last.

[UcanUwill]

I am so happy that Bulgaria got its first win. Vezenkov's performance throughout this tournament has been great and it's nice to see his team rewarded for a win at last.

Yes, it is hard to root against them, Vazenkov is insane, when you are sandwiched between Giannis and Jokic in efficiency stats, you know you did good.