Wilt shooting a jumpshot and dunking on Russell

[70sFan]

Watch on YouTube

Short clip, but very rare one. Including two nice plays from Wilt against his rival.

Enjoy!

[cupcakesnake]

That dunk is actually filthy. Imagine today if someone posted up the DPOY and dunked on him without even making a move.

[tsherkin]

People always make a big fuss when someone gets dunked on. It is the worst when the guy is giving a good contest. Sure, enjoy the moment as a fan, but dont pretend it is an indictment of the defender. [/tangential rant]

Wilt's form on his J was so ugly. It was a long time ago, of course but BLECH. Damned hell of an athlete though.

[70sFan]

People always make a big fuss when someone gets dunked on. It is the worst when the guy is giving a good contest. Sure, enjoy the moment as a fan, but dont pretend it is an indictment of the defender. [/tangential rant]

I understand you so much, to me for guys like Mourning or Mutombo who often got dunked on, it shows their activity and willingness to contest every shot. People should appreciate defenders more in these plays.

Wilt's form on his J was so ugly. It was a long time ago, of course but BLECH. Damned hell of an athlete though.

It's not pretty, but he was 7'1 with gigantic hands. As long as it worked (and I really don't know if it did), I would be fine with that.

[tsherkin]

I understand you so much, to me for guys like Mourning or Mutombo who often got dunked on, it shows their activity and willingness to contest every shot. People should appreciate defenders more in these plays.

And how many plays Shaq bailed on a contest because he didn't wanna get dunked on, right? Yeah, man. Zo, Deke, Dream, D-Rob, Eaton... loads and loads of guys making good contests and the superficial not respecting that. Grumble.

It's not pretty, but he was 7'1 with gigantic hands. As long as it worked (and I really don't know if it did), I would be fine with that.

Oh yeah, if it worked, it worked. It was ugly, and I've seen dudes that height with faaaaar better form. But with his power and the size of his hands, I'm sure it was a challenge.

[coastalmarker99]

Wilt should have dunked the ball every single possession.

The fact that he held himself back from doing so to settle for fadeaways and finger rolls just so he could show people that he was skilful was so dumb.

Wilt himself even regretted that fact.

As Here are Wilt's words

''If I just went out and took it to the basket every time I'd have averaged 60 to 65 points a game''.

And I deep down know that Wilt's being truthful when he says that.


As the only Center that I think would be seriously strong enough to stop an incredibly aggressive Wilt from going to the basket every single time for a dunk is Nate.


Everybody else including Russell would have gotten abused.

If you watch the number 2 dunk at the 2-minute mark he makes Russell look as if he is a child when he decided to play bully ball.

Watch on YouTube

[tsherkin]

''If I just went out and took it to the basket every time I'd have averaged 60 to 65 points a game''.

That is BS because that's not really how that works logistically, but yes, he could have been more aggressive and less frail-ego about how people perceived him. He wanted to be looked on as a skillful player instead of a brute. It's unfortunate that he cared so much about that. He definitely would have been a lot better. He definitely would have been even more dominant than he already was, and it would have created a large enough boost to his scoring value to overcome some of his other flaws. Wilt was a complicated dude. Incredible talent. Incredible career. Faced a lot of criticism even in his own era, being a big dude, "bullying" the little guys, racism, the evolution of the game, all of it. Big stuff. Coulda been better if he'd been more aggressive, but it does make some sense why he didn't at the time.

[70sFan]

Wilt should have dunked the ball every single possession.

So you want Wilt to play Rudy Gobert style on offense?

The fact that he held himself back from doing so to settle for fadeaways and finger rolls just so he could show people that he was skilful was so dumb.

Yeah and Shaq was also dumb to shoot so many hook shots, one handers and fadeaways?

Wilt himself even regretted that fact.

As Here are Wilt's words

''If I just went out and took it to the basket every time I'd have averaged 60 to 65 points a game''.

And I deep down know that Wilt's being truthful when he says that.

That's not how it works, it's impossible to average so many points, while limiting himself to take only inside shots. These "silly" fadeaways made it possible for him, not held him back.

As the only Center that I think would be seriously strong enough to stop an incredibly aggressive Wilt from going to the basket every single time for a dunk is Nate.


Everybody else including Russell would have gotten abused.

If you watch the number 2 dunk at the 2-minute mark he makes Russell look as if he is a child when he decided to play bully ball.

Watch on YouTube

If you want to cherry pick plays, then we can take another player from the same game:

Watch on YouTube

Wilt was extremely strong and physically gifted player, but he wasn't superhuman. Russell did tremendous job on him most of the time.

[coastalmarker99]

''If I just went out and took it to the basket every time I'd have averaged 60 to 65 points a game''.

That is BS because that's not really how that works logistically, but yes, he could have been more aggressive and less frail-ego about how people perceived him. He wanted to be looked on as a skillful player instead of a brute. It's unfortunate that he cared so much about that. He definitely would have been a lot better. He definitely would have been even more dominant than he already was, and it would have created a large enough boost to his scoring value to overcome some of his other flaws. Wilt was a complicated dude. Incredible talent. Incredible career. Faced a lot of criticism even in his own era, being a big dude, "bullying" the little guys, racism, the evolution of the game, all of it. Big stuff. Coulda been better if he'd been more aggressive, but it does make some sense why he didn't at the time.

After reading that he was passing out to teammates due to being too old to score.

A furious 31-year-old Wilt Chamberlain over the next three games averaged:

56.0 PPG (29.0 FGA)
32.7 RPG
4.0 APG
FG%: 79%

Prior, he was averaging:
19.1 PPG (14.4 FGA)
24.0 RPG
7.0 APG
FG%: 53%


Also on 2/12/67, Wilt Chamberlain tore the rim down in Boston Garden on what presumably was his (one handed) Dipper Dunk.



Season of the 76ers: The Story of Wilt Chamberlain and the 1967 NBA Champion Philadelphia 76ers - Wayne Lynch


The fact that Wilt didn't play with that fire in the belly outside of some rare times in which he wanted to prove a point is such a shame.

Watch on YouTube

It explains why despite being the GOAT talent he didn't win more than two rings.

[coastalmarker99]

Wilt should have dunked the ball every single possession.

So you want Wilt to play Rudy Gobert style on offense?

The fact that he held himself back from doing so to settle for fadeaways and finger rolls just so he could show people that he was skilful was so dumb.

Yeah and Shaq was also dumb to shoot so many hook shots, one handers and fadeaways?

Wilt himself even regretted that fact.

As Here are Wilt's words

''If I just went out and took it to the basket every time I'd have averaged 60 to 65 points a game''.

And I deep down know that Wilt's being truthful when he says that.

That's not how it works, it's impossible to average so many points, while limiting himself to take only inside shots. These "silly" fadeaways made it possible for him, not held him back.

As the only Center that I think would be seriously strong enough to stop an incredibly aggressive Wilt from going to the basket every single time for a dunk is Nate.


Everybody else including Russell would have gotten abused.

If you watch the number 2 dunk at the 2-minute mark he makes Russell look as if he is a child when he decided to play bully ball.

Watch on YouTube

If you want to cherry pick plays, then we can take another player from the same game:

Watch on YouTube

Wilt was extremely strong and physically gifted player, but he wasn't superhuman. Russell did tremendous job on him most of the time.

Yes, I would want Wilt to play that way.

As If Wilt didn't have that mental barrier about not fully using his strength and size his offensive game would have been even more impactful.


As he'd be shooting at probably over 62% FG in his career, as he'd cut down drastically all the fancy stuff (mid-range shots, finger rolls, etc) he was trying early on.


1967 was a season when it was noted that Wilt didn't take his fade-away shot any longer and preferred to dunk much more often and his FG%'s skyrocketed to 68% while his team's offence was number one and they romped to a 68 and 13 record and a title.



Wilt's offensive numbers in the two seasons in his prime in which he cut down his fancy moves are insane.


24.2 PPG on 63.9% shooting and his team's had the best offences and would have easily gone back to back if not for injuries.


Therefore the way he played offensively in 1967 and 1968 is the way he should have played for his entire career.

I mean look at his FG% in his highest scoring games during those seasons they are crazy.


58 points on 76.5% against the royals in 1967.

42 points on 18 out of 18.

38 points on 76% vs the royals and Lakers

[70sFan]

Yes, I would want Wilt to play that way.

As If Wilt didn't have that mental barrier about not fully using his strength and size his offence would have been even more impactful.


As he'd be shooting at probably over 62% FG in his career, as he'd cut down drastically all the fancy stuff (mid-range shots, finger rolls, etc) he was trying early on


1967 was a season when it was noted that Wilt didn't take his fade-away shot any longer and preferred to dunk much more often and his FG%'s skyrocketed to 68% while his team's offence was number one and they romped to a 68 and 13 record and a title.

I don't have a gigantic collection of 1967 games, but from all the footage I found, 25% of Wilt's shots were fadeaways. Wilt took fadeaways consistently in 1967, basically in every game available from that season. He took less of them of course, because he cut his volume as a whole, but it doesn't mean he stopped using them. Wilt never cut down finger roll attempts either, that's a myth.

You can't average 25 ppg with only dunks. Players like Gobert reach the upper limit of that and they are not close to the volume Sixers Wilt put up.

[Masigond]

Oh yeah, if it worked, it worked. It was ugly, and I've seen dudes that height with faaaaar better form. But with his power and the size of his hands, I'm sure it was a challenge.

The argument that the size of one's hands can be detrimental to one's shooting ability is often mentioned but is it really valid? Jordan might not have been a good 3P-shooter but he was excellent from mid-range, Kawhi is good from any range, Yao was good (his hands were still large despite not impressive for his overall size), Dirk doesn't seem to have small hands either, and I'm quite OK with Boban taking any shot (on his rather small volume) even though he's got the biggest mittens ever in NBA history.

I often think that having too big hands to be a good shooter is rather a convenient excuse for guys like Shaq who simply lacked that talent for which there may be many different reasons (and of course sometimes lack of effort to improve).

[hauntedcomputer]

Coulda been better if he'd been more aggressive, but it does make some sense why he didn't at the time.

yeah but look how much people hate him (then and now) and how much more they would hate him if he'd been a monster.

[Myth]

Oh yeah, if it worked, it worked. It was ugly, and I've seen dudes that height with faaaaar better form. But with his power and the size of his hands, I'm sure it was a challenge.

The argument that the size of one's hands can be detrimental to one's shooting ability is often mentioned but is it really valid? Jordan might not have been a good 3P-shooter but he was excellent from mid-range, Kawhi is good from any range, Yao was good (his hands were still large despite not impressive for his overall size), Dirk doesn't seem to have small hands either, and I'm quite OK with Boban taking any shot (on his rather small volume) even though he's got the biggest mittens ever in NBA history.

I often think that having too big hands to be a good shooter is rather a convenient excuse for guys like Shaq who simply lacked that talent for which there may be many different reasons (and of course sometimes lack of effort to improve).

Sports Science did an episode also showing that hand size doesn't really play into it. They put massive fake hands on Sasha Vujacic and he was still shooting well. It comes down to mechanics of the individual, not size.

[Stannis]

People always make a big fuss when someone gets dunked on. It is the worst when the guy is giving a good contest. Sure, enjoy the moment as a fan, but dont pretend it is an indictment of the defender.

I understand you so much, to me for guys like Mourning or Mutombo who often got dunked on, it shows their activity and willingness to contest every shot. People should appreciate defenders more in these plays.

Basically how every Knick fan feels watching Ewing haha. He's basically features twice on top 10 posterized.

But he wouldn't have averaged 3 BPG on shot knees if he didn't try to contest every drunk/layup, while getting dunked on many times in the process.

[God Squad]

The form on Wilts jumper is horrifying lol. It's actually a miracle someone like Giannis managed to somewhat figure it out.

[70sFan]

The form on Wilts jumper is horrifying lol. It's actually a miracle someone like Giannis managed to somewhat figure it out.

And yet his fadeaway shot was far smoother than Giannis one.

[cupcakesnake]

People always make a big fuss when someone gets dunked on. It is the worst when the guy is giving a good contest. Sure, enjoy the moment as a fan, but dont pretend it is an indictment of the defender. [/tangential rant]

I never view it as an indictment of the defender (I always appreciate a heroic contest), just as an impressive play from the offensive player. Dunking on someone is very hard, specifically when you aren't catching them flat-footed and benefitting from fortunate timing. The sheer strength and verticality is so impressive, particularly on this dunk.

[tsherkin]

The fact that Wilt didn't play with that fire in the belly outside of some rare times in which he wanted to prove a point is such a shame.

I think what it really illustrates is that Wilt wasn't a particularly intuitive player, and that he let ego dictate his play a lot more than what was best for the team. That matches up well with the variable impact of his passing/scoring versus his numbers, etc.

The argument that the size of one's hands can be detrimental to one's shooting ability is often mentioned but is it really valid? Jordan might not have been a good 3P-shooter but he was excellent from mid-range, Kawhi is good from any range, Yao was good (his hands were still large despite not impressive for his overall size), Dirk doesn't seem to have small hands either, and I'm quite OK with Boban taking any shot (on his rather small volume) even though he's got the biggest mittens ever in NBA history.

I often think that having too big hands to be a good shooter is rather a convenient excuse for guys like Shaq who simply lacked that talent for which there may be many different reasons (and of course sometimes lack of effort to improve).

Yeah, I see where you're coming from. I don't really see an excuse for Shaq. He actually worked pretty hard to try and improve his FT shooting, he just continuously couldn't translate it into game situations despite looking a lot better in practice. His strength, hands and misaligned wrist are all discussed, but he just couldn't get it done in-game and refused to granny-shot it due to ego. But Wilt even tried that too, and couldn't manage it. Same sort of setup, but maybe that's just a convenient but irrelevant truth.

Sports Science did an episode also showing that hand size doesn't really play into it. They put massive fake hands on Sasha Vujacic and he was still shooting well. It comes down to mechanics of the individual, not size.

Didn't know that, actually. Interesting.

yeah but look how much people hate him (then and now) and how much more they would hate him if he'd been a monster.

And? If he won more, it would be mitigated more, but at some point, you have to worry more about your efficacy than fan opinion of your style of play. Or should, anyway. Fans are mostly capricious and winning-driven anyhow. That's what you're there for, to compete and win for them, as a substitute for the gladiators of old, lol. Yes, granted, in Wilt's era people were considerably snootier about certain things... but they ground Shaq's gears about it too and he just DGAF and let those particular criticisms slide off. He got into it about OTHER things, of course, so he was far from a perfect model, but you take my point.

I never view it as an indictment of the defender (I always appreciate a heroic contest), just as an impressive play from the offensive player. Dunking on someone is very hard, specifically when you aren't catching them flat-footed and benefitting from fortunate timing. The sheer strength and verticality is so impressive, particularly on this dunk.

Exactly. Impressive stuff from sides.

[JN61]

I understand you so much, to me for guys like Mourning or Mutombo who often got dunked on, it shows their activity and willingness to contest every shot. People should appreciate defenders more in these plays.

And how many plays Shaq bailed on a contest because he didn't wanna get dunked on, right? Yeah, man. Zo, Deke, Dream, D-Rob, Eaton... loads and loads of guys making good contests and the superficial not respecting that. Grumble.

It's not pretty, but he was 7'1 with gigantic hands. As long as it worked (and I really don't know if it did), I would be fine with that.

Oh yeah, if it worked, it worked. It was ugly, and I've seen dudes that height with faaaaar better form. But with his power and the size of his hands, I'm sure it was a challenge.

Not pretty but it was quite effective. His post fadeaway was quite lethal weapon in his arsenal.