Line-ups, rotation, analysis thread.

[mhd]

We have seen enough... let's get him to our G league and get him a full year of development. Let's not make the mistake of having him on the bench behind Morris, Wright, Beal, Barton, Deni & Kispert getting no playing time and not developing.

Of course, doing so would be #soWizards

Speak for yourself...others might not agree that "we have seen enough."

He's reaching Jan Vessley territory for me. That's how bad he looked in SL. He doesn't pass the eye test AT ALL. Typical Wisconsin meh player.

[dckingsfan]

We have seen enough... let's get him to our G league and get him a full year of development. Let's not make the mistake of having him on the bench behind Morris, Wright, Beal, Barton, Deni & Kispert getting no playing time and not developing.

Of course, doing so would be #soWizards

Speak for yourself...others might not agree that "we have seen enough."

He's reaching Jan Vessley territory for me. That's how bad he looked in SL. He doesn't pass the eye test AT ALL. Typical Wisconsin meh player.

Agreed, that doesn't mean I don't want him to be at the Wizards training camp. But we should assume he is going to need to do a lot of development to get where he needs to be to play meaningful minutes in the NBA.

Assign him a full-time coach and let's see if the G league coaching staff can get him where he needs to be, seemed to work for Garrison Mathews.

But, let's not have him sit on the bench and stew, that would be #soWizards.

[DCZards]

We have seen enough... let's get him to our G league and get him a full year of development. Let's not make the mistake of having him on the bench behind Morris, Wright, Beal, Barton, Deni & Kispert getting no playing time and not developing.

Of course, doing so would be #soWizards

Speak for yourself...others might not agree that "we have seen enough."

He's reaching Jan Vessley territory for me. That's how bad he looked in SL. He doesn't pass the eye test AT ALL. Typical Wisconsin meh player.

2 or 3 SL games (with a bad back) and he's already Jan Veseley? That's just silly.

BTW, Michael Finley says hello.

[payitforward]

I'm with Zards on this. 100%.
What do any of you want from this kid?
What do you have against him?

Did I like the way Tommy managed this draft? No, I didn't. Did I like the pick of Johnny Davis? No, I didn't. But that has to do w/ Tommy Sheppard not Johnny Davis.

We don't know whether Johnny Davis can be good, or how good he can be. But we also don't know whether the moves I'd have preferred would have gotten better results. One thing we can be pretty sure of, however, is that nothing can be predicted off of of Johnny's SL performance with a tight back.

The Vesely comparison is especially pointless. Hell, there was at least 1 guy taken above Jan Vesely that year who was way way worse than Vesely turned out to be in the NBA.

As far as that goes, the best player out of that draft went #15 not #1. & the 2d best player went #30.

& if you look for the 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th & 8th best players out of the Vesely draft, they went in random positions up & down the list -- including #60 & #55 !!

Leave this kid alone.

[payitforward]

Oh, & 1 more thing -- if you're going to criticize the pick of Johnny Davis, then at least name the guy you would have picked instead. That way, we can see whether you're as clever as you think.

Would you have taken the guy picked #11? The guy who went at #12? How about the kid picked #13?

Do you even know who went at those spots without having to go look it up?

I didn't think so....

[AFM]

Are you his attorney or something? No one is bullying him, but you said so yourself-- it would be nice to be pleasantly surprised once in a while. He's looked terrible so far. Key word so far.

[payitforward]

Are you his attorney or something? No one is bullying him, but you said so yourself-- it would be nice to be pleasantly surprised once in a while. He's looked terrible so far. Key word so far.

You're probably right; I over-reacted. But I wasn't reacting to you. You wrote:

Only the wizards could go for the ultra conservative pick, a low ceiling high floor, can contribute right away guy, and then have to send him to the GoGo because he looks absolutely terrible and outmatched playing against scrubs in summer league

which is a criticism of the Wizards not a dismissal of Johnny Davis. You weren't directing your attention against a 20-year old kid; you were directing it against the history of Wizards ineptitude.

& anyway your post reflects the acerbic humor for which you are known & wch I like.

Plus... yeah, Johnny did look pretty terrible. But... he was injured.

[dckingsfan]

Criticizing the pick and knowing where Johnny Davis is today and the best path for his development are two different things (IMO).

If Johnny Davis is going to make meaningful gains this year, I think he should immediately be assigned a coach and relegated to the Capital City Go-Gos. That doesn't mean he shouldn't take part in Wizards activities - that is something completely different.

But he clearly is going to need to improve his skills before he is going to get any (meaningful) PT. Do we think having him sit at the end of the bench is a better plan?

And that you are critical of the pick doesn't mean you want to see Johnny Davis fail now that he has been drafted.

[doclinkin]

Given the skillset Johnny Davis showed in college, it was fully predictable that he would struggle early. Leastways that was my prediction. What is promising on Davis is his fierce determination and work ethic. And that is where you get the most value out of a draft pick: are they willing to put in the work to adjust and improve? Davis' history suggests that yeah, he will work. And outwork most people. But he is not an athletic hypertalent with imposing length and a sweet pure outside shot. He is a maker of difficult shots, and a defensive effort guy who will never give up on a play even when it looks like he's been beat. Offensively he needs a few summers with a top skills trainer, and a shot guru. And of course good health and the right opportunities.

[payitforward]

100% agree.

[Frichuela]

Given the skillset Johnny Davis showed in college, it was fully predictable that he would struggle early. Leastways that was my prediction. What is promising on Davis is his fierce determination and work ethic. And that is where you get the most value out of a draft pick: are they willing to put in the work to adjust and improve? Davis' history suggests that yeah, he will work. And outwork most people. But he is not an athletic hypertalent with imposing length and a sweet pure outside shot. He is a maker of difficult shots, and a defensive effort guy who will never give up on a play even when it looks like he's been beat. Offensively he needs a few summers with a top skills trainer, and a shot guru. And of course good health and the right opportunities.

Makes sense given what we have heard from different sources, his work ethic seems legit. So, realistically, the best outcome during his rookie contract is a reliable defensive guard/wing off-the bench (a 7th-8th man in the rotation).

The disappointment is that Tommy & co went for a limited ceiling candidate in the lottery...again...

[dckingsfan]

Given the skillset Johnny Davis showed in college, it was fully predictable that he would struggle early. Leastways that was my prediction. What is promising on Davis is his fierce determination and work ethic. And that is where you get the most value out of a draft pick: are they willing to put in the work to adjust and improve? Davis' history suggests that yeah, he will work. And outwork most people. But he is not an athletic hypertalent with imposing length and a sweet pure outside shot. He is a maker of difficult shots, and a defensive effort guy who will never give up on a play even when it looks like he's been beat. Offensively he needs a few summers with a top skills trainer, and a shot guru. And of course good health and the right opportunities.

Makes sense given what we have heard from different sources, his work ethic seems legit. So, realistically, the best outcome during his rookie contract is a reliable defensive guard/wing off-the bench (a 7th-8th man in the rotation).

The disappointment is that Tommy & co went for a limited ceiling candidate in the lottery...again...

I think that if we give Davis 3 years to get there that would be great. He could at least become an asset.

I disagree with doc here - I think the time is now DURING the season to get these resources for him. Don't worry about his rookie season, it should be about getting him the skills he needs to become a productive rotation player.

After the assessment in summer league, the plan and execution of the plan should have already started - and it could well be in motion (so hoping).

[doclinkin]

The disappointment is that Tommy & co went for a limited ceiling candidate in the lottery...again...

Disagree with this characterization of Tommy's history. It remains to be seen the ceiling of any of his selections. But I think he has been picking for talent, not instant impact.

Hachimura was definitely an upside pick, talented but incomplete. His top end potential is ridiculous, once he learns how to channel his talents. Or with a scheme and true PG to put him in position to succeed.

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

Rui needs to understand positional defense, and put in max effort on rebounding. But both of those things can improve with coaching, effort (rebounding) and experience (defense).

I didn't like the pick, and still have my doubts, but Rui was definitely a pick based on how he projects if he developed his top end talent.

AVDIJA: Deni has a low ceiling? Another pick I disliked at the time, but happy to say I was wrong. Deni is showing potential to be one of the more complete players in the game. Defense, solid rebounding, and savvy timely passing. His ceiling is limited only by his outside shooting, which given his improvement at the FT line, is a stat that looks likely to improve. But his BBIQ is 2nd to none on the team, one reason he leads the squad in +/-

Now in Eurobasket qualifiers he is doing this:

https://streamable.com/3y21a4
(credit PistolKing for the link)



11:2 ast/to ratio against double and triple teams.
And this in the NBA:

Watch on YouTube

Looks like he is showing improved handle, footwork, confidence, leadership, outside shooting, finishing, clutch shooting late. All suggestive of a high upside, especially in a win-or-go-home format at a playoff level focus. Maybe it doesn't all translate to the NBA, but it does at least show potential for far more.

KISPERT. Who knows where Corey Kispert ends up. Still he came on strong over his rookie season, earning real minutes with his play. In draft analysis scouts suggested his play was reminiscent of Wally Szczerbiak (also a 6'7" forward who stayed 4 yrs in college).

Rookie Wally age 22: 11.6 pts, 3.7 rb, 2.6 ast, .359 3FG%, .826 FT%, 29 mins/g.
Rookie Corey age 22, post all-star break: 11.4 pts, 3.1rb, 1.5 ast, .386 3FG%, .842 FT%, in 31 mins/g

Not saying, just saying, we have no idea what the top end is of any of these players yet. It is a good sign that Kispert improved quickly over his first year in the league and earned PT with his play. Yes he has a low floor, but has already shown improvement in one season, where most players see a breakout in yr 3, never know where that stops.

[doclinkin]

I just convinced myself to be excited. Ha! Always a risk in the offseason. But yeah, I like this squad. Good dudes. Good potential. Watching Deni's connection with Gafford and Porzingis looks really pretty (and that clip even shows the Gafford/Porzingis ultrabig front line).

With outside shooters all around there will be even cleaner looks available for a 6'9" passer with good court awareness.

I dunno fans, I do think we could see some exciting play with this crew. Put together a few wins. Streaks even. Never know.

[dckingsfan]

Under the heading of fan or fanatic (n.) A person marked or motivated by an extreme, unreasoning enthusiasm, as for a cause?

I just convinced myself to be excited. Ha! Always a risk in the offseason. But yeah, I like this squad. Good dudes. Good potential. Watching Deni's connection with Gafford and Porzingis looks really pretty (and that clip even shows the Gafford/Porzingis ultrabig front line).

With outside shooters all around there will be even cleaner looks available for a 6'9" passer with good court awareness.

I dunno fans, I do think we could see some exciting play with this crew. Put together a few wins. Streaks even. Never know.

[doclinkin]

Under the heading of fan or fanatic (n.) A person marked or motivated by an extreme, unreasoning enthusiasm, as for a cause?

I would say selectively reasoned enthusiasm

I think if it all comes together right, this Wizards team could win the Eurobasket championships. Contend for the FIBA World Cup, even.

Okay but get smoked in the quarterfinals by Spain or Australia or whomever.

[payitforward]

Yeah, I agree that the problem with Tommy's drafting can't be described as "favoring low ceiling types."

Doesn't change the fact that he's been bad at managing the draft. Quite bad.

[nate33]

If Beal was Kevin Durant or Kawhi Leonard, I'd be pretty excited. But he's not.

The team has some nice pieces but lacks a first-rate superstar to be the straw that stirs the drink. And they have no conceivable way of obtaining one unless Porzingis somehow morphs into Dirk Nowitzki.

[doclinkin]

If Beal was Kevin Durant or Kawhi Leonard, I'd be pretty excited. But he's not.

The team has some nice pieces but lacks a first-rate superstar to be the straw that stirs the drink. And they have no conceivable way of obtaining one unless Porzingis somehow morphs into Dirk Nowitzki.

Simultaneous breakouts by basically everybody transmogrifies the team into the Larry Brown Detroit Pistons?

Yeah its unlikely. I'm excited for small successes. There is a lot of potential for the team to play well together and be fun to watch. But we do lack the unbeatable superstar that can carry a team to a ring. And very few teams ever win without that single superior supertalent.

Still, I get the feeling there will be nights when the ball is popcorning around from player to player and the right guy hits the right shot at the right time and we beat a few teams that we have no business beating. I like the players we have. Their character. Their general BBIQ. Their ability to fit their role. I see how the roster can play as a team. I think we do need some toughness of character, leadership, fire, focus, that sense of the moment, but still, there will be times when you look at the play and say: that was dman good. That was nice. We could be a nice team. For all the good and mediocre that the word means.

[DCZards]

I think we do need some toughness of character, leadership, fire, focus, that sense of the moment, but still, there will be times when you look at the play and say: that was dman good. That was nice. We could be a nice team. For all the good and mediocre that the word means.

The Zards will get toughness and fire from Barton and Gibson (if and when he plays) and leadership from Kuz, Gibson and, probably, Morris.