Westbrook Trades - Dream a Sweet Dream

[Catchall]

Here is what I think is happening, possibly with my tinfoil hat on, but to me it makes perfect sense:


I believe Westbrook is making an extra effort to show that he's committed to being a good teammate and locker room guy for the lakers, not because he thinks LAL will resign him, and not because he necessary wants to stay, but because he wants to get the most money he could next offseason. And the Lakers are making an extra effort to act like RW is in their long term plans, and the Lakers are sincerely planning on playing RW and they are atleast attempting to raise his value. Not because they have any plans of keeping RW past the deadline or godforbid resigning him next year, but because they know that by the deadline, most of RW's contract will be paid already by the Lakers, and he becomes far more valuable as an expiring contract.

And as a laker fan, I really don't mind this. The Utah and Indiana trades should still be there at the deadline but with only 1 first rounder required. The Utah one should be atleast. You take the other pick and package it with some combo of Beverley/Dunn/Walker.

Making desperate moves when everyone knows you're desperate isn't the way to go.

Jazz have gotten other calls on Bogdanovic and Clarkson. Conley may still be available at the deadline, but I wouldn't expect the others to be.

[Slava]

Bogdanovic would be the easiest to shift with a 1st under some protections in return. I don't think I'd want Clarkson or Conley.

[DanishLakerFan]

Bogdanovic would be the easiest to shift with a 1st under some protections in return. I don't think I'd want Clarkson or Conley.

Bogdanovic is a scrub. His shooting is nice, but he's too much of a traffic cone on defense. Pass.

Conley is much better.

Best case, to me is Myles, Gay, Conley and Beasley for WB and 2 FRPs.

[Eric Bieniemy]

I feel pretty confident a Jazz trade will be consummated. Both sides are seriously motivated. I think the Lakers are definitely willing to release that 2027 pick, so although Ainge covets both picks, he knows one could potentially be worth more than anything else another could offer.

I know many here don't want Conley (I have no idea why), but he will almost surely be included in any deal.

this may not be saying much, but Conley would be a dramatic upgrade over Westbrook in every way imaginable, and a Conley/Beverley platoon, although old as dirt, would be very effective next the James and Davis.

Because of Beverley and Conley's ages and potential to be in and out of the lineup, signing a third point guard who could step in and play solid rotation minutes would be extremely important. Kemba Walker, Darren Collison, or (everyone's favorite) Dennis "fahrvergnügen" Schröder would fit the bill. Collison would be the guy I select.

[zuju]

Anyone think Westbrook is too muscular now? If he slim down and cut some muscles, he may play better again. Sometimes, being too muscular can affect your shooting I believe.

[TylersLakers]

I'll take almost any deal that gets Russ off this team and brings back valuable players.

The deal that makes sense for both sides in my opinion is:

Lakers trade Westbrook, Nunn, Gabriel, 2027 1st, 2029 1st (Top 4 Protected - If it doesn't convey, Utah gets a 2029 2nd round pick), 2023 2nd round pick
Jazz trade Conley, Bogdanovic, Clarkson, Gay, Jarred Vanderbilt

Why for Lakers:

- Gets rid of Westbrook and gains 5 valuable role players
- You give up the 2029 1st, but if you're terrible, Utah gets a second round pick instead. Also get Jarred Vanderbilt.
- Makes the team fun again with players that fit around LeBron and AD. Another playmaker in Conley. A roll big in Vanderbilt. Shooting and scoring with Bogdanovic and Clarkson.

PG: Beverley/Conley/
SG: Reaves/Clarkson/Walker/Christie
SF: Bogdanovic/JTA/Brown Jr
PF: LeBron/Vanderbilt/Gay/
C: AD/Bryant/Jones

Why for Utah:

- Clears 11 million in salary with just this one deal.
- Clears most of their future committed salary (Gay, Clarkson, Conley) - Still have Beasley they can use as trade asset.
- They get 3 future picks. The Lakers will be bad towards the end of the decade but I don't think they'll be Top 4 bad with clean salary sheets.
- Gets their roster to 15 players.


God, get a deal done. I don't want to watch Westbrook on this team for any length of time.

[-Spyda-]

Russ will stay

[stan francisco]

Russ will stay on the bench until February

I hope that fixed it.

[stan francisco]

Who here bets against Conley for Russ before the season starts?

I think the Jazz really want to make that happen. That’s $47M cap space for this upcoming summer as opposed to $50M for Conley, one year later.

My guess is that Pelinka is ready to say yes but I hope he squeezes more out of the deal. Conley is owed $50M next season. Ouch.

[TylersLakers]

Who here bets against Conley for Russ before the season starts?

I think the Jazz really want to make that happen. That’s $47M cap space for this upcoming summer as opposed to $50M for Conley, one year later.

My guess is that Pelinka is ready to say yes but I hope he squeezes more out of the deal. Conley is owed $50M next season. Ouch.

Conley is owed $22.6M this year and $24.4M next season - although only $14.3M is guaranteed next season.

Russ makes $47M this season - they still need to add in other salaries to make the money work so it totally depends how they value the rest of those players that are being put in the deal. Westbrook's 1 year remaining vs Conley's 2 years remaining is almost a wash for me. Maybe it's worth 2 2nd round picks.

Look at it like this, if they didn't need to match salaries and Utah and the Lakers each had the required cap space to do a Westbrook and Conley swap, who gets the extra compensation knowing Conley's two years remaining and Russ' 1 year remaining? I'd say the Lakers would have to give up x2 2nd round picks.

Russ, x2 2nd round picks for Conley.

Since that trade doesn't work under the CBA, Utah has to throw in extra money. I'm assuming Bogdanovic is worth a 1st round pick. He's an expiring deal, so now you're up to:

Conley, Bogdanovic for Westbrook, x2 2nd round picks, 1st round pick. That trade works but if I'm Utah, there's no way I'm taking Westbrook and going into the luxury tax to do it (this deal adds $5M in salary) - so automatically, Rudy Gay becomes a throw in.

Conley, Bogdanovic, Rudy Gay for Westbrook, x2 2nd round picks, 1st round pick. That's a deal I'd make. It sucks to lose x3 picks, but Bogdanovic is a player that will play meaningful minutes in a playoff series. Conley will play in a playoff series. And the most important thing to me is LeBron and Anthony Davis. With Russ on the floor with them, every statistical measure shows them as being absolutely terrible. With a C, without a C, etc. Replacing Russ with Bogdanovic doesn't take away from those two, it enhances those two to 2020/2021 levels. That's why you make the trade.

[stan francisco]

Who here bets against Conley for Russ before the season starts?

I think the Jazz really want to make that happen. That’s $47M cap space for this upcoming summer as opposed to $50M for Conley, one year later.

My guess is that Pelinka is ready to say yes but I hope he squeezes more out of the deal. Conley is owed $50M next season. Ouch.

Conley is owed $22.6M this year and $24.4M next season - although only $14.3M is guaranteed next season.

Russ makes $47M this season - they still need to add in other salaries to make the money work so it totally depends how they value the rest of those players that are being put in the deal. Westbrook's 1 year remaining vs Conley's 2 years remaining is almost a wash for me. Maybe it's worth 2 2nd round picks.

Look at it like this, if they didn't need to match salaries and Utah and the Lakers each had the required cap space to do a Westbrook and Conley swap, who gets the extra compensation knowing Conley's two years remaining and Russ' 1 year remaining? I'd say the Lakers would have to give up x2 2nd round picks.

Russ, x2 2nd round picks for Conley.

Since that trade doesn't work under the CBA, Utah has to throw in extra money. I'm assuming Bogdanovic is worth a 1st round pick. He's an expiring deal, so now you're up to:

Conley, Bogdanovic for Westbrook, x2 2nd round picks, 1st round pick. That trade works but if I'm Utah, there's no way I'm taking Westbrook and going into the luxury tax to do it (this deal adds $5M in salary) - so automatically, Rudy Gay becomes a throw in.

Conley, Bogdanovic, Rudy Gay for Westbrook, x2 2nd round picks, 1st round pick. That's a deal I'd make. It sucks to lose x3 picks, but Bogdanovic is a player that will play meaningful minutes in a playoff series. Conley will play in a playoff series. And the most important thing to me is LeBron and Anthony Davis. With Russ on the floor with them, every statistical measure shows them as being absolutely terrible. With a C, without a C, etc. Replacing Russ with Bogdanovic doesn't take away from those two, it enhances those two to 2020/2021 levels. That's why you make the trade.

I stand corrected. I must’ve heard 50 where it 15 was said.

And I do the deal because it’s addition by subtraction on the court to get him traded.

[zuju]

Who here bets against Conley for Russ before the season starts?

I think the Jazz really want to make that happen. That’s $47M cap space for this upcoming summer as opposed to $50M for Conley, one year later.

My guess is that Pelinka is ready to say yes but I hope he squeezes more out of the deal. Conley is owed $50M next season. Ouch.

Conley is owed $22.6M this year and $24.4M next season - although only $14.3M is guaranteed next season.

Russ makes $47M this season - they still need to add in other salaries to make the money work so it totally depends how they value the rest of those players that are being put in the deal. Westbrook's 1 year remaining vs Conley's 2 years remaining is almost a wash for me. Maybe it's worth 2 2nd round picks.

Look at it like this, if they didn't need to match salaries and Utah and the Lakers each had the required cap space to do a Westbrook and Conley swap, who gets the extra compensation knowing Conley's two years remaining and Russ' 1 year remaining? I'd say the Lakers would have to give up x2 2nd round picks.

Russ, x2 2nd round picks for Conley.

Since that trade doesn't work under the CBA, Utah has to throw in extra money. I'm assuming Bogdanovic is worth a 1st round pick. He's an expiring deal, so now you're up to:

Conley, Bogdanovic for Westbrook, x2 2nd round picks, 1st round pick. That trade works but if I'm Utah, there's no way I'm taking Westbrook and going into the luxury tax to do it (this deal adds $5M in salary) - so automatically, Rudy Gay becomes a throw in.

Conley, Bogdanovic, Rudy Gay for Westbrook, x2 2nd round picks, 1st round pick. That's a deal I'd make. It sucks to lose x3 picks, but Bogdanovic is a player that will play meaningful minutes in a playoff series. Conley will play in a playoff series. And the most important thing to me is LeBron and Anthony Davis. With Russ on the floor with them, every statistical measure shows them as being absolutely terrible. With a C, without a C, etc. Replacing Russ with Bogdanovic doesn't take away from those two, it enhances those two to 2020/2021 levels. That's why you make the trade.

Brogdanovic fits the team offensively, not a liability on the other end. Yet, he is 34 years old and is declining. Does he worth a first round pick? If you draft it right, a first round pick can turn out to be a very seviciable or even a very good player for years aka Clarkson, Larry nance, kuzma etc. .

[Eric Bieniemy]

Bogdonovic is a bad fit, people. He's been guarding PFs for years. Yes, they could use his jumpshot, but if he's playing alongside both James and Davis, they will be a bad defensive unit.

[stan francisco]

Bogdonovic is a bad fit, people. He's been guarding PFs for years. Yes, they could use his jumpshot, but if he's playing alongside both James and Davis, they will be a bad defensive unit.

I’ll take your word for it. There’s not enough shots to go around. Defense should be prioritized. Conley and Beasley and Gay over Bog.

[Eric Bieniemy]

Bogdonovic is a bad fit, people. He's been guarding PFs for years. Yes, they could use his jumpshot, but if he's playing alongside both James and Davis, they will be a bad defensive unit.

I’ll take your word for it. There’s not enough shots to go around. Defense should be prioritized. Conley and Beasley and Gay over Bog.

Bogdonovic is the guy with the most value. If the Lakers agree to take him out and include Gay instead, the Jazz should be willing to accept less draft capital. At most I'd give Utah two heavily protected first rounders, but (without the inclusion of Bogdonovic) one protected first and a second should do it.

[Karmaloop]

Bogdonovic is the guy with the most value. If the Lakers agree to take him out and include Gay instead, the Jazz should be willing to accept less draft capital. At most I'd give Utah two heavily protected first rounders, but (without the inclusion of Bogdonovic) one protected first and a second should do it.

Bogey is the only player that is worth giving up a FRP for coming from the Jazz. Clarkson is probably worth 2 SRPs and Beasley might be worth one plus maybe a second one. There's no variation of role players coming from Utah am I willing to dangle FRPs that are either likely to convey or muddle up the ability to make future trades for.

[heezyo2o]

Bogdonovic is a bad fit, people. He's been guarding PFs for years. Yes, they could use his jumpshot, but if he's playing alongside both James and Davis, they will be a bad defensive unit.

When the Lakers went big with Dwight/javale, AD and Lebron. Lebron was guarding SFs and those were good defensive units.

AD at center can work with Bojan and Lebron

[Eric Bieniemy]

Bogdonovic is the guy with the most value. If the Lakers agree to take him out and include Gay instead, the Jazz should be willing to accept less draft capital. At most I'd give Utah two heavily protected first rounders, but (without the inclusion of Bogdonovic) one protected first and a second should do it.

Bogey is the only player that is worth giving up a FRP for coming from the Jazz. Clarkson is probably worth 2 SRPs and Beasley might be worth one plus maybe a second one. There's no variation of role players coming from Utah am I willing to dangle FRPs that are either likely to convey or muddle up the ability to make future trades for.

You're not trying to win now. You're strictly focused on preservation with little to no regard for winning. That's fine.

I'm about winning now without completely nuking the team's future.

The two pieces you mention that have real value (Clarkson and Bogdonovic) the Lakers don't even need.

Beasley is every bit as good a shooter as Bogdonovic but younger. He also is cheaper and has a cheap team option for next year. He defends a position (SG) that James and Davis do not (Bogdonovic guards PFs--the same position that James guards). His presence also allows Walker to sit out of the regular rotation (a good thing).

Beasley may not be worth a mid to low round first to you, but around the trade deadline I guarantee you a contender in need of shooting would pony up a first. When guys like Thaddeus Young and Royce O'Neal are traded for firsts, you get an idea how much players are worth. Beasley has the potential to be this team's number three leading scorer, and as soon as he puts on his jersey he's the best shooter the Lakers have had since Glen Rice and Byron Scott.

Beasley and Conley are the two guys with the most potential impact, not Bogdonovic and Clarkson. Beasley and Conley, alone (minus Westbrook), have the potential to move this team innumerably:

PG - Conley - Beverley - Nunn - Pippen Jr. (two-way)
SG - JTA - Beasley - Walker
C - Davis - Jones - Bryant
PF - James - Gay - Gabriel - Swider (two-way)
SF - Brown - Reaves - Christie

[Karmaloop]

You're not trying to win now. You're strictly focused on preservation with little to no regard for winning. That's fine.

I'm about winning now without completely nuking the team's future.

The two pieces you mention that have real value (Clarkson and Bogdonovic) the Lakers don't even need.

Beasley is every bit as good a shooter as Bogdonovic but younger. He also is cheaper and has a cheap team option for next year. He defends a position (SG) that James and Davis do not (Bogdonovic guards PFs--the same position that James guards). His presence also allows Walker to sit out of the regular rotation (a good thing).

Beasley may not be worth a mid to low round first to you, but around the trade deadline I guarantee you a contender in need of shooting would pony up a first. When guys like Thaddeus Young and Royce O'Neal are traded for firsts, you get an idea how much players are worth. Beasley has the potential to be this team's number three leading scorer, and as soon as he puts on his jersey he's the best shooter the Lakers have had since Glen Rice and Byron Scott.

Beasley and Conley are the two guys with the most potential impact, not Bogdonovic and Clarkson. Beasley and Conley, alone (minus Westbrook), have the potential to move this team innumerably:

PG - Conley - Beverley - Nunn
SG - JTA - Beasley - Walker
C - Davis - Jones - Bryant
PF - James - Gay
SF - Brown - Reaves - Christie

I'm all about winning now. I just don't agree that you should bend over backwards for some decent, not great role players. And I'm not a fan of letting teams apply a "Westbrook tax" for the sake of doing so. If the Jazz had a halfway decent return for any of their role players, the deal would have been done by now. But it's clear that Ainge is angling for those Lakers' pick(s). I have no issues dealing them with protections involved, but there's no chance I'm willing to risk mortgaging my future to marginally improve the roster today. That's the difference. You think adding Conley and Beasley suddenly turns the Lakers into contenders. The health of LeBron and AD will do that. Put the right role players around him to allow those two to be successful.

I'm not sure what part of Bogdanovic they don't need. He's got his issues defensively, but he's a career 39% from beyond the arc. I would agree about not wanting/needing Clarkson, but that's also why I think if Clarkson is involved he needs to be peddled to a 3rd team for an expiring plus some assets. I've mentioned Phoenix as a possibility with Dario Saric and whatever picks coming to make it work. If the Bucks had the matching expiring contracts (aside from Brook Lopez), they'd make sense as well.

Beasley is coming off his worst season as a pro, and the Wolves had arguably their best season since KG left. I'm not saying that Beasley is the reason why the Wolves lost so much, but that seems like a pretty clear "player putting up big numbers on a bad team" situation. I think he's got value as a 3&D and I think if the Jazz wanted to maximize his value they'd hold onto him. But Conley is a shell of his former self. I'd rather take someone who doesn't have quite the upside he does, but probably a higher floor.

[Eric Bieniemy]

You're not trying to win now. You're strictly focused on preservation with little to no regard for winning. That's fine.

I'm about winning now without completely nuking the team's future.

The two pieces you mention that have real value (Clarkson and Bogdonovic) the Lakers don't even need.

Beasley is every bit as good a shooter as Bogdonovic but younger. He also is cheaper and has a cheap team option for next year. He defends a position (SG) that James and Davis do not (Bogdonovic guards PFs--the same position that James guards). His presence also allows Walker to sit out of the regular rotation (a good thing).

Beasley may not be worth a mid to low round first to you, but around the trade deadline I guarantee you a contender in need of shooting would pony up a first. When guys like Thaddeus Young and Royce O'Neal are traded for firsts, you get an idea how much players are worth. Beasley has the potential to be this team's number three leading scorer, and as soon as he puts on his jersey he's the best shooter the Lakers have had since Glen Rice and Byron Scott.

Beasley and Conley are the two guys with the most potential impact, not Bogdonovic and Clarkson. Beasley and Conley, alone (minus Westbrook), have the potential to move this team innumerably:

PG - Conley - Beverley - Nunn
SG - JTA - Beasley - Walker
C - Davis - Jones - Bryant
PF - James - Gay
SF - Brown - Reaves - Christie

I'm all about winning now. I just don't agree that you should bend over backwards for some decent, not great role players. And I'm not a fan of letting teams apply a "Westbrook tax" for the sake of doing so. If the Jazz had a halfway decent return for any of their role players, the deal would have been done by now. But it's clear that Ainge is angling for those Lakers' pick(s). I have no issues dealing them with protections involved, but there's no chance I'm willing to risk mortgaging my future to marginally improve the roster today. That's the difference. You think adding Conley and Beasley suddenly turns the Lakers into contenders. The health of LeBron and AD will do that. Put the right role players around him to allow those two to be successful.

I'm not sure what part of Bogdanovic they don't need. He's got his issues defensively, but he's a career 39% from beyond the arc. I would agree about not wanting/needing Clarkson, but that's also why I think if Clarkson is involved he needs to be peddled to a 3rd team for an expiring plus some assets. I've mentioned Phoenix as a possibility with Dario Saric and whatever picks coming to make it work. If the Bucks had the matching expiring contracts (aside from Brook Lopez), they'd make sense as well.

Beasley is coming off his worst season as a pro, and the Wolves had arguably their best season since KG left. I'm not saying that Beasley is the reason why the Wolves lost so much, but that seems like a pretty clear "player putting up big numbers on a bad team" situation. I think he's got value as a 3&D and I think if the Jazz wanted to maximize his value they'd hold onto him. But Conley is a shell of his former self. I'd rather take someone who doesn't have quite the upside he does, but probably a higher floor.

We're on the same page. I value Conley and Beasley more than you, but I'm also not willing to be taken to the cleaners to acquire them. The most I give up is one heavily protected pick and a second rounder. If just the thought of sending two heavily protected picks enters my calculus, I'm also thinking the Jazz must send a pick back.

No one here is interested in bending over for Ainge. If the Lakers get off to a horrendous start, the worse case scenario is to send Westbrook home. That alone makes the team better, IMO.