Team Canada Basketball Thread V3.0

[WuTang_CMB]

this dazn is shyt

[Dino-Might]

Pretty frustrating watching Canada blowing layups.

[WuTang_CMB]

come back

[DoctaJ]

That last 3 minutes was sad. Gave away the bronze there unfortunately.

[mojo13]

Post mortum on the AmeriCup team anyone?


To me they clearly exceeded expectations. I proclaimed there was a realistic chance they go 0-3 (I don;t think I was wrong saying that). So 3-3 and making the semi's is an excellent result. I didnt know at the time Uruguay and Colombia would be missing their 2 or 3 top players each, making those wins not too impressive for this roster. But Mexico had pretty much their full team as well as Brazil (hung tough twice) and the USA had plenty of former NBA talent. Over all a pretty good result.

Since we were told this is a development team (I still think there was another 20+ guys under 25 I'd rather have seen here) - Who on this roster looked like they could have an impact on the real SMNT.

There really is no one here beside Banton that could have an impact on a fullish NBA laden "Summer Core" team so its likely worth looking more at the "Winter Core" team.


TBH didnt have a good tournment but I'll give him a pass, as he was playing out of position. I'd still be fine with him as a PG on the "Winter Core" team as a similar quality player to Kenny Cherry, Kaza Keane and Phil Scrubb.

The other guards were not overly impressive and some looked pretty bad. Jahvon Henry Blair was the best of the bunch. He started off not being able to make an open shot but got better as the tournment went on. Ended as the teams 2nd leading scorer at 14/2.5/2.5 on 44/34/73. No so bad. Perhaps a bench guy for the Winter Core team, but at 24 he is still fairly young, has room to improve and should be watched. The rest - Bandoo, Gray, Babb-Harrison - I don't think I care to ever see in a Canada uniform again. Gray and Bandoo are still reletively young and can improve.

Of the wings - Kigab was most interesting, with plenty of tools as possible upside. 6'7, active, good nose for the ball, good defender and we finally saw a hint of outside shooting vs the USA, but he was pretty bad shooting for most of the tournment. Still pretty raw, but at 23 I like his upside. Curious where he goes this fall - G-League?

Pandi was interesting - but what the heck is he? A 6'4 PF? Good strong defender, good in the paint for his size, great rebounder for his size, but very little outside game it seems. At 22 does he have time to develope an outside game? I kind of think he maxes out as a Daniel Mullings type player. Sort of a non-shooting bully guard?

Up front Thomas Kennedy is fairly interesting - mostly due to his early stage career. Quick, active, seems pretty smart, good screens and rolls. Not that big and cant really protect the rim, so he is going to need to find some shooting at some point if he is really going to contribute to the SMNT down the road. Still pretty young, I believe one of the announcers said he was heading back to Windsor. Hopefully he works hard on an outside shot at Windsor other wise he's going to be pretty undersized to help much. But I'll be watching him.


Calloo doesn't seem worth mentioning here other than he was terrible but only 22. Pothmaus is garbage and didn't deserve a Canada jersey. Him being on the team really says something about Canada's bigman depth. Kalif Young was ok - he's 25 had a couple years of pro ball in Europe and has been improving. He had some really dumb plays at crucial moments for Canada during the 4th Q collapse vs BRA and USA. He moves up from Poland to the German BBL this season and hopefully he keeps going, as he was fairly mediocre this AmeriCup as a big. Really not much more than being "not awful".

But Canada has very limited depth up front and Young could be an important piece to the Winter Core this November. If Kyle Wiltjer and Kyle Alexander are unavialble (as I expect) it gets pretty limited very quick. Maybe Conor Morgan and/or Owen Klassen come back - both only minor upgrades here. Guys like Melvin Ejim and/or Isiaha Mike can add some size on the wing or at least add shooting as undersized PFs. Panama, Venezuela and Argentina are not very big teams, so maybe can hold tough up from with a guy like Young and let the guard/wing depth make up for it.

Any other thoughts?

[Hair Canada]

Great overview, Mojo. Completely agree on most of it, with a couple of exceptions.

TBH was more than just not good. Frankly, he was awful. It's not just the shot that was not falling. For me, the major disappointment was the decision-making, with more TOs than assists and really trying to force the issue with limited size. I really do hope this was just a bad tournament because in this form I wouldn't want him on the winter team.

Blair is a sparkplug from the bench. When he's cooking, certainly worth a spot, but he can get trigger-happy really quickly and hurt a team. Still worth a shot if we're missing some scoring and certainly had an overall strong tournament.

Unlike you, I do see some interesting things in Gray and Bandoo, especially the former. He plays with a lot of spirit and tenacity, a good committed defender, and attacks the rim with good strength, bounce, and determination. One of the players I liked more on the team. Could definitely see him as a backup PG. Bandoo did not play well, but he also didn't really get a chance after a weak start (rightfully so). He's a good shooter, fairly young, and showed well in the CEBL this year so I wouldn't write him off.

The other two players I liked on this team were Kigab and Pandi (who grew on me as the tournament went on). You already talked about Kigab, with whom I have a long-term love affair. I think he can actually work very well alongside good guards and bigs as a defensive stopper who brings energy but also some opportunistic scoring. As for Pandi, I get that he's limited offensively, but I see him in a very similar role. He can guard 1-4 with great strength and feet work (reminds me a bit of Dort) and on offense, much like Kigab, it's mainly opportunistic scoring, with the occasional 3-pointer. I like both quite a lot as defensive stoppers who should play alongside 4 more talented offensive players and do all the little things that win games.

The paint was really very weak and is the main reason Canada ended up without a medal. The two worth mentioning are Young and Kennedy. Young was disappointing after a good first game. He's okay on D but really very bad on the other end, showing bad touch, bad hands (numerous passes to him that ended up in TOs), little understanding of the game, and just all-around a weak offensive player. I get it that Canada doesn't have much up front, but I would try to avoid him if possible. Kennedy was indeed better offensively, but as you say he's very limited defensively and also someone who mostly puts Canada at a disadvantage most of the time. How I'd love to have Kabengele step up for his country if Alexander is unavailable. I'd also happily take the college guys (Edey, Bediako) over these. If not, I'd also prefer guys like Nicholson, morgan, or Klassen, or joseph Vrankic (better than Kennedy).

[mojo13]

TBH is certainly a concern after these six games. However, I have to go off his much longer two year track record in the BBL and ACB.
After an MVP type season in the German BBL he helped carry a promoted Breogan team (Muzan was the alpha) to the ACB playoffs on 13/3/4 on 45/38/84 shooting. That earned him a place on a EuroCup squad this season with Budućnost VOLI.
Maybe this AmeriCup is a sign the last two years were a bit of an abberation but this season should really show his level. Him performing that well in the ACB tells me he should be a Phil Scrubb/Kenny Cherry/Tyler Ennis level player and this tournament just wasn't a good role for him. He's not a shooter - really only launches a couple a game as a pro. He is a true PG and needs the offense going through him.
I dont think it would have been a good role for Tyler Ennis or Kaza Keane either - but some of the combo guards could have thrived (like Phil, Chery, Naz Long, Dylan Ennis and maybe even Hanlan). Would have been cool to see what Nate Darling could have done here - or a Wigginton. Robertson clearly would have been a huge.

[frumble]

The only game I watched more than bits and piece of was the loss to Brazi. In that small sample, I thought Young looked very bad.

So did the whole team and I think the 3-3 record is more a reflection of the weak competition than anything else.

That being said, it is only the results that matter for ranking purposes, and the results weren't bad.

[Mirotic12]

TBH is certainly a concern after these six games. However, I have to go off his much longer two year track record in the BBL and ACB.
After an MVP type season in the German BBL he helped carry a promoted Breogan team (Muzan was the alpha) to the ACB playoffs on 13/3/4 on 45/38/84 shooting. That earned him a place on a EuroCup squad this season with Budućnost VOLI.
Maybe this AmeriCup is a sign the last two years were a bit of an abberation but this season should really show his level. Him performing that well in the ACB tells me he should be a Phil Scrubb/Kenny Cherry/Tyler Ennis level player and this tournament just wasn't a good role for him. He's not a shooter - really only launches a couple a game as a pro. He is a true PG and needs the offense going through him.
I dont think it would have been a good role for Tyler Ennis or Kaza Keane either - but some of the combo guards could have thrived (like Phil, Chery, Naz Long, Dylan Ennis and maybe even Hanlan). Would have been cool to see what Nate Darling could have done here - or a Wigginton. Robertson clearly would have been a huge.

If you are talking about the ACB level, and on a bad team, those are bad stats for a lead guard.

[Jstock12]

TBH is certainly a concern after these six games. However, I have to go off his much longer two year track record in the BBL and ACB.
After an MVP type season in the German BBL he helped carry a promoted Breogan team (Muzan was the alpha) to the ACB playoffs on 13/3/4 on 45/38/84 shooting. That earned him a place on a EuroCup squad this season with Budućnost VOLI.
Maybe this AmeriCup is a sign the last two years were a bit of an abberation but this season should really show his level. Him performing that well in the ACB tells me he should be a Phil Scrubb/Kenny Cherry/Tyler Ennis level player and this tournament just wasn't a good role for him. He's not a shooter - really only launches a couple a game as a pro. He is a true PG and needs the offense going through him.
I dont think it would have been a good role for Tyler Ennis or Kaza Keane either - but some of the combo guards could have thrived (like Phil, Chery, Naz Long, Dylan Ennis and maybe even Hanlan). Would have been cool to see what Nate Darling could have done here - or a Wigginton. Robertson clearly would have been a huge.

If you are talking about the ACB level, and on a bad team, those are bad stats for a lead guard.

While I agree that there are certainly multiple tiers in the ACB (from teams that are possibly the best in whole Europe, to some pretty poor teams) I think averaging 13 points on efficient shooting splits while playing on a middle-tier team in the ACB is a good thing. Especially since he had to play as a second-fiddle to Dzanan Musa who was leading that team (and has now signed a contract with Real Madrid).

In terms of his career, signing a contract with Buducnost is certainly the highest point for him so far, so he will have to prove that he belongs at the EuroCup level. And if all goes well, perhaps there's even a chance for him to sign with some lower-tier Euroleague team after this stint with Buducnost (similar to how Pangos went from playing in the Eurocup to signing with Euroleague's Zalgiris).

[Mirotic12]

While I agree that there are certainly multiple tiers in the ACB (from teams that are possibly the best in whole Europe, to some pretty poor teams) I think averaging 13 points on efficient shooting splits while playing on a middle-tier team in the ACB is a good thing. Especially since he had to play as a second-fiddle to Dzanan Musa who was leading that team (and has now signed a contract with Real Madrid).

In terms of his career, signing a contract with Buducnost is certainly the highest point for him so far, so he will have to prove that he belongs at the EuroCup level. And if all goes well, perhaps there's even a chance for him to sign with some lower-tier Euroleague team after this stint with Buducnost (similar to how Pangos went from playing in the Eurocup to signing with Euroleague's Zalgiris).

I am just being honest - those are pedestrian stats for that type of role, in that type of team. It's basically the type of role that guys like Thad McFadden (and numerous other similar such type players) made their careers off of in Europe, as journeymen. Only you typically expect bigger production than that for such players.

[mojo13]

While I agree that there are certainly multiple tiers in the ACB (from teams that are possibly the best in whole Europe, to some pretty poor teams) I think averaging 13 points on efficient shooting splits while playing on a middle-tier team in the ACB is a good thing. Especially since he had to play as a second-fiddle to Dzanan Musa who was leading that team (and has now signed a contract with Real Madrid).

In terms of his career, signing a contract with Buducnost is certainly the highest point for him so far, so he will have to prove that he belongs at the EuroCup level. And if all goes well, perhaps there's even a chance for him to sign with some lower-tier Euroleague team after this stint with Buducnost (similar to how Pangos went from playing in the Eurocup to signing with Euroleague's Zalgiris).

I am just being honest - those are pedestrian stats for that type of role, in that type of team. It's basically the type of role that guys like Thad McFadden (and numerous other similar such type players) made their careers off of in Europe, as journeymen. Only you typically expect bigger production than that for such players.

Mirotic and Jstock! Where you guys been?


I take a relative eye with Trae Bell Haynes. He's was never really a high profile guy in the youth ranks or NCAA. He flopped out of the BBL quickly in his first year as a pro. Recovered and found his footing in Finland....that could have been it for him and I had little expectations for him. Instead he storms back to the BBL - turns in a MVP calibre season, moves up to the ACB and leads a very low level team to a really suprising season and has now made his way into the EuroCup. Pretty good movement and quick year over year improvement for a youngish player (now 27). Three or four years ago - no one expected him to reach this level.

And by the way - last season in the ACB, TBH was 19th in the league in PPG and 16th for assists per game. Is that mediocre for a lead PG?
Probably only a few PGs with better scoring averages (what was needed on Breogan) and he's proved he can put up the assists when needed (7.2 APG in 20/21 in the BBL which lead the league by a wide margin).

[NotMyKawhi]

Best prospect since wiggins

Watch on YouTube

[SharoneWright]

Best prospect since wiggins

Watch on YouTube

Nowhere on this list. Wiggins would have been #1.
http://www.espn.com/college-sports/basketball/recruiting/playerrankings/_/class/2025/view/super60/sort/rank/order/true

[NotMyKawhi]

Best prospect since wiggins

Watch on YouTube

Nowhere on this list. Wiggins would have been #1.
http://www.espn.com/college-sports/basketball/recruiting/playerrankings/_/class/2025/view/super60/sort/rank/order/true

that's only players who play in America

[SharoneWright]

Best prospect since wiggins

Watch on YouTube

Nowhere on this list. Wiggins would have been #1.
http://www.espn.com/college-sports/basketball/recruiting/playerrankings/_/class/2025/view/super60/sort/rank/order/true

that's only players who play in America

thanks. did not know that. thought team like United or Orangeville who play AAU wouldn't slip under the radar..

[mojo13]

Saying best prospect since Wiggins is a little hyperbolic at this stage. There was Barrett of course who was a consensus #1 in his class since an early age. Can't forget Murray and now most recently Shaedon Sharpe had a #1 class ranking. But I certainly wouldn't discount Efeosa's upside.

There are reliable people out there claiming he will be a 5 star and he has Top 5 potential for 2025. He played up 2 years on the AAU this summer and turned plenty of heads.

But it is still too early though. The ranking sights have not yet really zoned in on the 2025 class or him yet. On3 and 247 have no 2025 list yet, rivals has a top 40 that Efeosa is not on. ESPN won’t rank anyone in Canada at all. On3 & 24/7 are aware of him, so it will be interesting when they do their 2025 rankings.

[Hair Canada]

Kirk Goldsberry of ESPN with an analysis of the national teams that pose the greatest threat to the US in 2023 and 2024. Canada comes second after France (he assumes the French will have Embiid, Gobert, and Wembanyama suiting up):

https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/34613547/which-national-basketball-teams-pose-biggest-threat-team-usa-future-international-tournaments

So, should we take out the champagnes? Even if we assume Canada shows up with most of its NBA stars (questionable), I find this Twitter analysis by Max Jacoby much more realistic, as it doesn't just simplistically consider star power.

The full thread is very much worth reading. The different FIBA rules, the importance of big men, and probably most important -- the role of continuity and system. Much to learn for Canada from a team like Spain. Seems like we've made some baby steps in the right direction over the last few years. But realizing where we really are in the pecking order is very important.

Read on Twitter

[BilboBanginz]

Up three spots to 15.

Read on Twitter

[aminiaturebuddha]

Kirk Goldsberry of ESPN with an analysis of the national teams that pose the greatest threat to the US in 2023 and 2024. Canada comes second after France (he assumes the French will have Embiid, Gobert, and Wembanyama suiting up):

https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/34613547/which-national-basketball-teams-pose-biggest-threat-team-usa-future-international-tournaments

Thanks for this, Hair. I must have totally missed something - when did Embiid become eligible for France? I realize that the Cameroon team has had some issues, but with players like Embiid and Siakam, I thought they might try to put it together again for the next cycle.

Has Embiid ever lived in France? (I realize that's not a required for citizenship or eligibility)

Not sure who Canada would have to attempt to counter a potential French front court of Embiid and Gobert. Maybe we would just stick Olynyk on the perimeter to try to draw one out, and then play only smaller skilled guys (Wiggins, Brooks, Barrett, Murray, SGA, etc.) to try to run them off the floor? A problem for down the road, obviously, but interesting to ponder.

As for the rest of the article, it's nice to get some recognition, but this is still only an article about "potential". It seems that we've been living off of potential for about 10 years now. Time to start actually stepping up in important tournaments.