Eurobasket 2022 (daily OP updates), day 11, all quarter finals teams known, Italy shocks Europe, eliminates Serbia

[Taikuri]

The real Spaniard, Lorenzo Brown wins the game. Man I am so crushed.

Finland's fate tomorrow vs Jaleen Smith maybe. This summer Finland already beat Bogda, Zubac, Hezonja at Croatia's home, but I think that Croatia has a difference making American player now. Dario Saric was the only real Croat from NBA missing from that Finland game.

Watch on YouTube

;t=2s

[lambchop]

Does anyone know if Jaleen Smith has any connection to Croatia or did they just straight up hire him? Has he ever even visited Croatia? I'm also interested what kind of salary Croatia pays him for playing for team Croatia or what is his motive behind playing for Croatia?

His Wiki page doesn't say about his connections to Croatia. I think that those connections don't exist.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaleen_Smith

My understanding is that after Finland eliminated Croatia from the World Cup qualifiers and Croatia realized how weak their backcourt is they panicked and paid this guy to play for Croatia. The dates align pretty well.

"In July 2022, the Croatian Basketball Federation expressed their interest to naturalize Smith,"

No connection other then being a merc for a Croatian passport. There was a quote from him taken by reporters that goes something like this: " I accepted Croatia's call even though I didn't even know where it is" ( not sure if true, but still fun ). There was a long battle in Croatian Bball Association wheter or not to employ mercs. Recent failure at the World Cup Qualifiers prompted a quick solution and the results are showing.

Edit: there is an interview with him on youtube where he gives that statement

Lmao, interesting info. There should be a draft where each national team of Europe can join if they want to. As in NBA draft the weakest countries would pick first. By that logic Embiid would be representing Gibraltar now.

Lol just imagine him here. Gibraltar has its own championship called the championship for small countries, where countries like Gibraltar and Liechtenstein play. What I waste of Embiids time that would be.

Watch on YouTube

[Taikuri]

No connection other then being a merc for a Croatian passport. There was a quote from him taken by reporters that goes something like this: " I accepted Croatia's call even though I didn't even know where it is" ( not sure if true, but still fun ). There was a long battle in Croatian Bball Association wheter or not to employ mercs. Recent failure at the World Cup Qualifiers prompted a quick solution and the results are showing.

Edit: there is an interview with him on youtube where he gives that statement

Lmao, interesting info. There should be a draft where each national team of Europe can join if they want to. As in NBA draft the weakest countries would pick first. By that logic Embiid would be representing Gibraltar now.

Lol just imagine him here. Gibraltar has its own championship called the championship for small countries, where countries like Gibraltar and Liechtenstein play. What I waste of Embiids time that would be.

Watch on YouTube

Embiid would say that he's injured every time that they would ask him to come playing.

Nobody seems to defend there in that youtube video lol. It's like Harlem Globetrotters type exhibition without so high skills for trick plays.

[Taikuri]

Has Brown ever lived in Spain?

Is he getting paid a salary to play for them?

I'm not sure if players get paid a salary for the national team tbh. Of course, all spending is covered, but I'm not sure if there is an actual salary. At the end of the day, doesn't the exposure make it kind of worthwhile? You get the opportunity to play extended minutes in a lead role against NBA guys, maybe even NBA MVPs.

That's essentially a situation a lot of those naturalized players wouldn't be in, even if they're borderline NBA players, unless they just get lucky on an NBA team and multiple guys are injured for that game or they just so happen to be on a tanking team.

Guys play at the drew league for free just to get a shot at NBA guys. I don't think they need a huge salary to motivate them to play multiple real games against NBA players.

I'm sure that there is something they are getting for risking injuries, while playing additional games. It may not be salary exactly but how about the Spanish federation would gift Lorenzo Brown a house or something like that.

Well another situation like this will happen tomorrow with Jaleen Smith vs Finland. Finland would have a 50/50 chance of beating Croatia if that guy wasn't there, because team Croatia isn't very good without him. This rule forces teams that currently don't have naturalized players such as Finland and Czech Republic to start looking for some American mercenaries as well or they won't be competitive with other teams who abuse this rule. It's however more complicated than that in Finland where passports aren't gifted very easily.

[Nuntius]

Has Brown ever lived in Spain?

Is he getting paid a salary to play for them?

I'm not sure if players get paid a salary for the national team tbh. Of course, all spending is covered, but I'm not sure if there is an actual salary. At the end of the day, doesn't the exposure make it kind of worthwhile? You get the opportunity to play extended minutes in a lead role against NBA guys, maybe even NBA MVPs.

That's essentially a situation a lot of those naturalized players wouldn't be in, even if they're borderline NBA players, unless they just get lucky on an NBA team and multiple guys are injured for that game or they just so happen to be on a tanking team.

Guys play at the drew league for free just to get a shot at NBA guys. I don't think they need a huge salary to motivate them to play multiple real games against NBA players.

I'm sure that there is something they are getting for risking injuries, while playing additional games. It may not be salary exactly but how about the Spanish federation would gift Lorenzo Brown a house or something like that.

Well another situation like this will happen tomorrow with Jaleen Smith vs Finland. Finland would have a 50/50 chance of beating Croatia if that guy wasn't there, because team Croatia isn't very good without him. This rule forces teams that currently don't have naturalized players such as Finland and Czech Republic to start looking for some American mercenaries as well or they won't be competitive with other teams who abuse this rule. It's however more complicated than that in Finland where passports aren't gifted very easily.

Finland does have a naturalized player. Jamar Wilson. He played for Finland in the last EuroBasket in 2017. He also played for Finland in 2015. Of course, his situation isn't really comparable with Lorenzo Brown and Jaleen Smith. Wilson did actually play in Finland before he was naturalized. He spent a season in Finland back in 10-11 and he played in Finland against recently (from 2020 to March 2022). His wife, Laura Sario, is Finnish as well and a former member of the Finnish women's national basketball team. They reportedly met when she was playing college basketball in the States. So, Wilson did have a connection to Finland before he got naturalized. In my opinion, there is nothing wrong with Wilson's naturalization.

As to the initial question on what Brown and Smith get for playing for Spain and Croatia respectively, the answer is simple. They get an EU passport which is vital if they want to build a professional basketball career in Europe. European leagues have quotas on how many non-EU players they can have on their roster. Having a passport like that means that you don't count against that quota so you have a lot more employment opportunities.

[Taikuri]

I'm not sure if players get paid a salary for the national team tbh. Of course, all spending is covered, but I'm not sure if there is an actual salary. At the end of the day, doesn't the exposure make it kind of worthwhile? You get the opportunity to play extended minutes in a lead role against NBA guys, maybe even NBA MVPs.

That's essentially a situation a lot of those naturalized players wouldn't be in, even if they're borderline NBA players, unless they just get lucky on an NBA team and multiple guys are injured for that game or they just so happen to be on a tanking team.

Guys play at the drew league for free just to get a shot at NBA guys. I don't think they need a huge salary to motivate them to play multiple real games against NBA players.

I'm sure that there is something they are getting for risking injuries, while playing additional games. It may not be salary exactly but how about the Spanish federation would gift Lorenzo Brown a house or something like that.

Well another situation like this will happen tomorrow with Jaleen Smith vs Finland. Finland would have a 50/50 chance of beating Croatia if that guy wasn't there, because team Croatia isn't very good without him. This rule forces teams that currently don't have naturalized players such as Finland and Czech Republic to start looking for some American mercenaries as well or they won't be competitive with other teams who abuse this rule. It's however more complicated than that in Finland where passports aren't gifted very easily.

Finland does have a naturalized player. Jamar Wilson. He played for Finland in the last EuroBasket in 2017. He also played for Finland in 2015. Of course, his situation isn't really comparable with Lorenzo Brown and Jaleen Smith. Wilson did actually play in Finland before he was naturalized. He spent a season in Finland back in 10-11 and he played in Finland against recently (from 2020 to March 2022). His wife, Laura Sario, is Finnish as well and a former member of the Finnish women's national basketball team. They reportedly met when she was playing college basketball in the States. So, Wilson did have a connection to Finland before he got naturalized. In my opinion, there is nothing wrong with Wilson's naturalization.

As to the initial question on what Brown and Smith get for playing for Spain and Croatia respectively, the answer is simple. They get an EU passport which is vital if they want to build a professional basketball career in Europe. European leagues have quotas on how many non-EU players they can have on their roster. Having a passport like that means that you don't count against that quota so you have a lot more employment opportunities.

I knew that someone would mention that. He has quit his career and as you said it's way different.

-He isn't and never was as good as these other point guards. Let's compare to Poland's Slaughter for example. Wilson never was that caliber of a guy really.

-He joined team Finland when he was already very old. He didn't have many years left in him.

-As you said, Finnish wife and he played in Finland before he was naturalized and he spent the last years of his career playing in Finland as well. The guy actually has learned to speak some Finnish and can sing the national anthem and stuff.

-Back then if Finland really wanted to abuse this system in the same way as some other countries, then they would've recuited a player of need. Finland's strength has always been the strong back court and Finland's weakness has been the size and the lack of skilled big players. Someone like Slovenia's Tobey would've been a hell of a player for Finland years ago if the current Tobey existed back then. It would've created a lot stronger team Finland compared to just having a very old Jamar Wilson who couldn't defend.

[Nuntius]

I'm sure that there is something they are getting for risking injuries, while playing additional games. It may not be salary exactly but how about the Spanish federation would gift Lorenzo Brown a house or something like that.

Well another situation like this will happen tomorrow with Jaleen Smith vs Finland. Finland would have a 50/50 chance of beating Croatia if that guy wasn't there, because team Croatia isn't very good without him. This rule forces teams that currently don't have naturalized players such as Finland and Czech Republic to start looking for some American mercenaries as well or they won't be competitive with other teams who abuse this rule. It's however more complicated than that in Finland where passports aren't gifted very easily.

Finland does have a naturalized player. Jamar Wilson. He played for Finland in the last EuroBasket in 2017. He also played for Finland in 2015. Of course, his situation isn't really comparable with Lorenzo Brown and Jaleen Smith. Wilson did actually play in Finland before he was naturalized. He spent a season in Finland back in 10-11 and he played in Finland against recently (from 2020 to March 2022). His wife, Laura Sario, is Finnish as well and a former member of the Finnish women's national basketball team. They reportedly met when she was playing college basketball in the States. So, Wilson did have a connection to Finland before he got naturalized. In my opinion, there is nothing wrong with Wilson's naturalization.

As to the initial question on what Brown and Smith get for playing for Spain and Croatia respectively, the answer is simple. They get an EU passport which is vital if they want to build a professional basketball career in Europe. European leagues have quotas on how many non-EU players they can have on their roster. Having a passport like that means that you don't count against that quota so you have a lot more employment opportunities.

I knew that someone would mention that. He has quit his career and as you said it's way different.

-He isn't and never was as good as these other point guards. Let's compare to Poland's Slaughter for example. Wilson never was that caliber of a guy really.

-He joined team Finland when he was already very old. He didn't have many years left in him.

-Finnish wife. The guy actually has learned to speak some Finnish and can sing the national anthem and stuff.

-Back then if Finland really wanted to abuse this system in the same way as some other countries, then they would've recuited a player of need. Finland's strength has always been the strong back court and Finland's weakness has been the size and the lack of skilled big players. Tobey would've been a hell of a player for Finland years ago if the current Tobey existed back then.

You're preaching to the choir, my friend. As I said in my post, I don't see anything wrong with Wilson's naturalization and I even mentioned some of the reasons you mentioned (such as his wife being Finnish).

I don't think he's officially retired, though. Didn't he sign a contract in March 2022? He is 38 years old so he definitely could retire any moment but has he officially announced it? If he hasn't announced it, is Finland even allowed to attempt to naturalize another player? Aren't teams only restricted to one naturalized player or does this restriction only counts for players who are actually called up for the team? I'm unclear on that last part which is why I'm asking.

[falcolombardi]

What are those ratings?

I am not 100% sure, but I think it is still the relic from EuroCup days:
(Points + Rebounds + Assists + Steals + Blocks + Fouls Drawn) - (Missed Field Goals + Missed Free Throws + Turnovers + Shots Rejected + Fouls Committed)

So essentially just PER?

[falcolombardi]

I couldnt watch today, was busy with work stuff

How did spain play to beat lithuania? I didnt expect that result

[zzzyyxyyxzzz]

Naturalization.... One per team, and once you play for a country you can never play for another one.

There are 50 countries in FIBA Europe, all with different laws regarding naturalization. There is no "fair" naturalization, so give it a break.

If I had an extra 2 million dollars I could get an Austrian passport in a few weeks, and I don't even play basketball.

[zzzyyxyyxzzz]

Aren't teams only restricted to one naturalized player or does this restriction only counts for players who are actually called up for the team? I'm unclear on that last part which is why I'm asking.

Counts per called up team (official roster in a tournament / competition). So there can be more than one, but only one can be on the roster at a time.

Like Mirotic, Ibaka, or Brown for Spain. Randolph and Tobey for Slovenia.

[knicksfan974]

This "buying players" for national teams is really bad imho and it should at least be reworked and some conditions added. Bringing some dude in from wherever is kinda dumb.

This. Where is the national pride of these countries? If you lose, then you lose with pride of giving your all with YOUR own countries players. If you win, then you can proudly say you won with YOUR countries own players. I have no respect for any championship that was won with americans playing major role for you national team. This is why for example Slovenia's Eurobasket championship will always come with an asterisk for me.

Big respect to Lithuania which is an example of a country that has much national pride and I belive will never hire americans, no matter if they are not good enough to win it all ever again. I believe for example Finland also has much national pride and would never go this way (had a naturalized player earlier in Jamar Wilson but dude lived in Finland for 10+ years, has family there etc). Shame on these countries hiring american guards with absolutely no connections to the country whatsoever, it so sad and shameful to see.

[zzzyyxyyxzzz]

This "buying players" for national teams is really bad imho and it should at least be reworked and some conditions added. Bringing some dude in from wherever is kinda dumb.

This. Where is the national pride of these countries? If you lose, then you lose with pride of giving your all with YOUR own countries players. If you win, then you can proudly say you won with YOUR countries own players. I have no respect for any championship that was won with americans playing major role for you national team. This is why for example Slovenia's Eurobasket championship will always come with an asterisk for me.

Big respect to Lithuania which is an example of a country that has much national pride and I belive will never hire americans, no matter if they are not good enough to win it all ever again. I believe for example Finland also has much national pride and would never go this way (had a naturalized player earlier in Jamar Wilson but dude lived in Finland for 10+ years, has family there etc). Shame on these countries hiring american guards with absolutely no connections to the country whatsoever, it so sad and shameful to see.

Sure... https://www.lrt.lt/en/news-in-english/19/1403557/lithuanian-citizenship-restored-to-canadian-basketball-player-brazdeikis

But, but, but... yeah right.

[Buckets22]

But, but, but... yeah right.

Brazdeikis was born in Lithuania's second-biggest city Kaunas in 1999, but migrated with his parents to the US when he was three.

That is straight from the article

[styLesdavis]

But, but, but... yeah right.

Brazdeikis was born in Lithuania's second-biggest city Kaunas in 1999, but migrated with his parents to the US when he was three.

That is straight from the article

Of course you are right - Brazdeikis shouldn`t be compared with Smith, Brown or others.
BUT: Brazdeikis still counts as a "naturalized player" and already played several times for the youth national team
of Canada alongside RJ Barrett etc.

[Bob8]

I'm not sure if players get paid a salary for the national team tbh. Of course, all spending is covered, but I'm not sure if there is an actual salary. At the end of the day, doesn't the exposure make it kind of worthwhile? You get the opportunity to play extended minutes in a lead role against NBA guys, maybe even NBA MVPs.

That's essentially a situation a lot of those naturalized players wouldn't be in, even if they're borderline NBA players, unless they just get lucky on an NBA team and multiple guys are injured for that game or they just so happen to be on a tanking team.

Guys play at the drew league for free just to get a shot at NBA guys. I don't think they need a huge salary to motivate them to play multiple real games against NBA players.

Lorenzo Brown had to renounce his US citizenship to play for Spain. I imagine he did it for more than simply playing in these international tournaments.

Most players from non EU countries get second citezenship these days, cause some domestic leagues still have foreign player limits of some kind, so there is that. I never really understood Brown's situation, why did he lose USA citezenship, seems like a lot of AMerican athletes get dual passports while playing in Europe with no problem. Was this even true, I know Garbajosa said it, cause this naturalization had very strong backlash even in Spain, not to mention other countries.

Either way, sorry, I think we derailing, I just try to find comfort after devastating evening. Spain won, that is it. We lost, but we stood to our principles, if we wanted, we could recruit good americans too I have no doubt about that.

With previous rules, your Canadian couldn't play too. When a player has played a single match for other country, he couldn't play for anyone more.

[zzzyyxyyxzzz]

But, but, but... yeah right.

Brazdeikis was born in Lithuania's second-biggest city Kaunas in 1999, but migrated with his parents to the US when he was three.

That is straight from the article

Oh, I know. This is also in the article:
“His citizenship has been restored because the amendments allowing children who were born Lithuanian citizens, but later acquired the citizenship of another state, to keep both citizenships came into force on January 1,” - and this after playing for the Canadian youth team.

And that reminds me of when Slovenia changed their citizenship law in 2017 to allow Randolph to play for them. The original poster was talking about respect for Lithuania and no respect for Slovenia in 2017, and I just wanted to point the fallacy in that argument.

Look at this photo https://sportklub.n1info.si/kosarka/randolph-seveda-bom-rekel-da-je-bila-nasa-ekipa-boljsa/
That is Randolph a month ago watching the NT in Ljubljana, Slovenia (he is not curtently on the team). My question to all who say "must have a connection with the country to play or it's cheating"... So now Randolph is Slovenian enough to play? A five year loyalty is enough?

Citizenship Law is complicated and varies. There is no way to make it "fair" for everyone. People can buy citizenships or receive them for merit and they don't even have to live there in certain countries. It is what it is.

I made my position on the issue clear a couple of pages back in this thread, so I'll let it go now.

[zzzyyxyyxzzz]

With previous rules, your Canadian couldn't play too. When a player has played a single match for other country, he couldn't play for anyone more.

A player who has competed in an official FIBA competition after reaching age 17 is tied to that country. (Wikipedia)

I believe he played for Canada in the U16.

[Sakkreth]

But, but, but... yeah right.

Brazdeikis was born in Lithuania's second-biggest city Kaunas in 1999, but migrated with his parents to the US when he was three.

That is straight from the article

Oh, I know. This is also in the article:
“His citizenship has been restored because the amendments allowing children who were born Lithuanian citizens, but later acquired the citizenship of another state, to keep both citizenships came into force on January 1,” - and this after playing for the Canadian youth team.

And that reminds me of when Slovenia changed their citizenship law in 2017 to allow Randolph to play for them. The original poster was talking about respect for Lithuania and no respect for Slovenia in 2017, and I just wanted to point the fallacy in that argument.

Look at this photo https://sportklub.n1info.si/kosarka/randolph-seveda-bom-rekel-da-je-bila-nasa-ekipa-boljsa/
That is Randolph a month ago watching the NT in Ljubljana, Slovenia (he is not curtently on the team). My question to all who say "must have a connection with the country to play or it's cheating"... So now Randolph is Slovenian enough to play? A five year loyalty is enough?

Citizenship Law is complicated and varies. There is no way to make it "fair" for everyone. People can buy citizenships or receive them for merit and they don't even have to live there in certain countries. It is what it is.

I made my position on the issue clear a couple of pages back in this thread, so I'll let it go now.

I am sorry but it's not comparable at all. Ignas Brazdeikis has a Lithuanian first name, Lithuanian last name, was born in Lithuania, has Lithuanian parents, and speaks Lithuanian. Anthony Randolph does not have a Slovenian first name, does not have a Slovenian last name, was not born in Slovenia, neither of his parents are Slovenian, and he doesn't speak Slovenian. Yes, Randolph is not Slovenian enough.

[Bob8]

With previous rules, your Canadian couldn't play too. When a player has played a single match for other country, he couldn't play for anyone more.

A player who has competed in an official FIBA competition after reaching age 17 is tied to that country. (Wikipedia)

I believe he played for Canada in the U16.

He played for U17 too and he was 17 years old then.