Markkanen 43/9/3 vs Croatia

[sip]

We saw the same thing coming from bulls fans mouths when it came to Wendall Carter as well and he has been great for the magic. The bulls have been a disaster for big man development so I wouldn't take his play there to be a sign of anything. He was really good last year for the cavs and he is clearly playing with a new level of confidence right now. He is now walking into the perfect situation with the jazz so I fully expect him to thrive this season.

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[PistolPeteJR]

Remember when Luis Scola was smoking teams in the summer when he was with the Raptors and most Raps fans thought it meant he was the next big thing lol?

Markkanen is 10 years younger and about to enter his prime. Unlike Scola who was about to retire.

That's not the point.

The point is, "proceed with caution".

[UcanUwill]

Remember when Luis Scola was smoking teams in the summer when he was with the Raptors and most Raps fans thought it meant he was the next big thing lol?

Markkanen is 10 years younger and about to enter his prime. Unlike Scola who was about to retire.

That's not the point.

The point is, "proceed with caution".

I completely understand your point, I mean Facundo Campazzo is Argentinian legend by now, and he is Facundo Campazzo...

That said, Luis Scola was 27 when he was NBA rookie, his game kept getting better and he peaked at 35 or omething in FIBA that is, but it was unrealistic to expect Scola to have a big breakout in the NBA, even rookie Scola was already a veteran. Markannen is still young, I think getting exited about him being great in FIBA, torching NBA SF, PF and center frontcourt, not some randoms, is still acceptable and might not be just fools gold, the shots hes been making are all star level, dude is a shot maker. You can question his defense, motor, stuff like that, but man looks like he knows how to put ball into basket.

[Ryoga Hibiki]

Some of the games Markkanen had, like this one against Croatia, can't be ignored. You watch the game you see that's at least a very good offensive talent with a quite diverse skillset, even at NBA level.
Now, we also know that he's not an ELITE talent, the kind of can't miss prospect people are going to build around and adjust to his strengths. That means that, if put in the wrong situation, he's weaknesses are going to exposed, his strengths minimized and he won't reach his potential.
The Jazz will have all the interest now to let him shine, if anything to increase his trade value.
I am very curious to see now, but that's clearly a guy who can score more than 20ppg in the NBA with good efficiency,

[Pentele]

He'll be back to his usual disappointing play when the season starts.

That's the consensus it seems. But the Cavs fans saw a little something the Bulls fans didn't get to see because the Cavs used him differently. Did you know he was 2nd in the NBA last year in efficiency within 15 feet of the rim behind Embiid? Did you know he was part of a starting line-up that when healthy was the 2nd ranked defense in the NBA?

The Bulls asked him to be the man in middle, a dominating force, and he failed. The Cavs asked him to be a perimeter help defender and only take the shots if he had an advantage, and he exceeded everyone's expectations as a tall-ball SF.

Just saying the situation matters, more than most give credit for.

The situation certainly matters and I would not put much stock in consensus views around here. Often they are just as emotionally driven as any hot takes, only amplified by an echo chamber of the likeminded. If I recall correctly, "the consensus view" in the Bulls forum the last off season was that (i) no team is offering Markkanen a contract over 10M/year (quite many even stated that he is fast on his way to China which is only right because he is rubbish); (ii) there is no way Markkanen can improve defensively (he is who he is; there is no room for growth anymore). The consensus was wrong on both counts, of course, and I could go on adding several other things like there is no way Markkanen can play as a SF in NBA. The fact is that he can do a lot of things, he has done a lot of things, and only the time will tell how much he is still able to expand his game. That irks some people, I cannot fathom why. I guess it's an emotional thing.

[ShootersShoot]

He hasnt proven he can be part of a winning team and hasnt played more than 61 games in his career since his rookie season. He isnt really an ideal type of starter at any position even as a role player let alone a go to option. I'd say he is a decent player but saying he can be a second option is pure nonsense. Maybe he can be like a gallinari type player.

[PistolPeteJR]

Markkanen is 10 years younger and about to enter his prime. Unlike Scola who was about to retire.

That's not the point.

The point is, "proceed with caution".

I completely understand your point, I mean Facundo Campazzo is Argentinian legend by now, and he is Facundo Campazzo...

That said, Luis Scola was 27 when he was NBA rookie, his game kept getting better and he peaked at 35 or omething in FIBA that is, but it was unrealistic to expect Scola to have a big breakout in the NBA, even rookie Scola was already a veteran. Markannen is still young, I think getting exited about him being great in FIBA, torching NBA SF, PF and center frontcourt, not some randoms, is still acceptable and might not be just fools gold, the shots hes been making are all star level, dude is a shot maker. You can question his defense, motor, stuff like that, but man looks like he knows how to put ball into basket.

That's fine and all, I'm not hating on him as a player, honestly. I'm just saying we shouldn't be so quick to accelerate at the first sight of an amber traffic light.

[Bolivar]

Everything went right for him against Croatia, like literally everything such as inbound passes with 0.1 secs in the clock. The Finnish team is well aware that getting the ball to his hands is pretty much always the correct play (aside from a the occasional open 3-pointers from Salin), so his numbers will be brilliant if the opponent can't defend him.

In the NBA, it's just everything so different when you have a bunch of guys playing for their next big contract so his usage is drastically different. Maybe he can have a more interesting role in a somewhat tanking Utah, but more than anything I'd like to see him as the 3rd best guy in a contending team in playoffs. But like someone else said, he had plenty of opportunities in Chicago and he's not one who dominates in NBA.

[Finfro]

He hasnt proven he can be part of a winning team and hasnt played more than 61 games in his career since his rookie season. He isnt really an ideal type of starter at any position even as a role player let alone a go to option. I'd say he is a decent player but saying he can be a second option is pure nonsense. Maybe he can be like a gallinari type player.

Who peed in your cheerios?

I think there are plenty of GMs who consider Lauri as a starter. I do agree, it will be intresting to see what position Lauri will play for Jazz but thus far on NBA level Cavs tenur showed that there are plenty of positions where he can contribute at a decent level.

To me it is mind boggling how even after yesterdays Croatia game still some people continue to outrule any possibility for Lauri to actually being able to be a part of an NBA-team's core. The potential is obviously still there. It comes down to the team to utilize those strengths and find a spot that accomodates Lauri's strengths. Frankly, Boylen was the worst coach imaginable for any NBA-team and that affected Lauri's development and especially motivation.

I would just love to see Lauri prove all these doubters wrong.

[celticfan42487]

remember when luka said its easier to score in the NBA, than it is in international play?

Shane Larkin superstar MVP agreed with him I'm sure

[Biff]

I always felt like he has underperformed in the NBA for his talent level. Might be he just feels more comfortable playing international ball.

[JonFromVA]

Most solid NBA players have had big games, maybe they get hyped to play a former team, or the matchups/scheme favors them, or they just catch fire. If Lauri got to shoot 29 attempts a game for an entire season, we'd no doubt see more of them ... but consistency is what makes a star a star and Lauri's game is pretty high-variance.

[ShootersShoot]

He hasnt proven he can be part of a winning team and hasnt played more than 61 games in his career since his rookie season. He isnt really an ideal type of starter at any position even as a role player let alone a go to option. I'd say he is a decent player but saying he can be a second option is pure nonsense. Maybe he can be like a gallinari type player.

Who peed in your cheerios?

I think there are plenty of GMs who consider Lauri as a starter. I do agree, it will be intresting to see what position Lauri will play for Jazz but thus far on NBA level Cavs tenur showed that there are plenty of positions where he can contribute at a decent level.

To me it is mind boggling how even after yesterdays Croatia game still some people continue to outrule any possibility for Lauri to actually being able to be a part of an NBA-team's core. The potential is obviously still there. It comes down to the team to utilize those strengths and find a spot that accomodates Lauri's strengths. Frankly, Boylen was the worst coach imaginable for any NBA-team and that affected Lauri's development and especially motivation.

I would just love to see Lauri prove all these doubters wrong.

What did I say that was wrong? Being a decent player with a gallinari like potential is not a bad ceiling for what he has shown so far.

I was responding to the statement that he can be a second option..I just don't believe he can be a legit second option on a team...do you?

Has he not been injury prone?
Has he been a starter on a playoff team?
What makes him ideal for a given position, as a role player or go to guy? I'm not saying he cannot play the wing or PF, but what traits would make him ideal for either position?

Anyone that uses these small sample international comps as a basis for how guys can perform in the nba are absolutely clueless, like yourself.

[Hugi Mancura]

remember when luka said its easier to score in the NBA, than it is in international play?

Shane Larkin superstar MVP agreed with him I'm sure

As does NBA allstar Sabonis.

[SeattleJazzFan]

Everything went right for him against Croatia, like literally everything such as inbound passes with 0.1 secs in the clock. The Finnish team is well aware that getting the ball to his hands is pretty much always the correct play (aside from a the occasional open 3-pointers from Salin), so his numbers will be brilliant if the opponent can't defend him.

In the NBA, it's just everything so different when you have a bunch of guys playing for their next big contract so his usage is drastically different. Maybe he can have a more interesting role in a somewhat tanking Utah, but more than anything I'd like to see him as the 3rd best guy in a contending team in playoffs. But like someone else said, he had plenty of opportunities in Chicago and he's not one who dominates in NBA.

lol @ the bolded. dude, he's averaging 28 ppg for the tournament in fewer minutes than all the other top scorers. this isn't just a one game thing. he's been killing it the entire tournament.

[Finfro]

He hasnt proven he can be part of a winning team and hasnt played more than 61 games in his career since his rookie season. He isnt really an ideal type of starter at any position even as a role player let alone a go to option. I'd say he is a decent player but saying he can be a second option is pure nonsense. Maybe he can be like a gallinari type player.

Who peed in your cheerios?

I think there are plenty of GMs who consider Lauri as a starter. I do agree, it will be intresting to see what position Lauri will play for Jazz but thus far on NBA level Cavs tenur showed that there are plenty of positions where he can contribute at a decent level.

To me it is mind boggling how even after yesterdays Croatia game still some people continue to outrule any possibility for Lauri to actually being able to be a part of an NBA-team's core. The potential is obviously still there. It comes down to the team to utilize those strengths and find a spot that accomodates Lauri's strengths. Frankly, Boylen was the worst coach imaginable for any NBA-team and that affected Lauri's development and especially motivation.

I would just love to see Lauri prove all these doubters wrong.

What did I say that was wrong? Being a decent player with a gallinari like potential is not a bad ceiling for what he has shown so far.

I was responding to the statement that he can be a second option..I just don't believe he can be a legit second option on a team...do you?

Has he not been injury prone?
Has he been a starter on a playoff team?
What makes him ideal for a given position, as a role player or go to guy? I'm not saying he cannot play the wing or PF, but what traits would make him ideal for either position?

Anyone that uses these small sample international comps as a basis for how guys can perform in the nba are absolutely clueless, like yourself.

A whole bunch of plain negativity. Sometimes if you have nothing good to say might be better not to say anything, just saying.

During Lauri's rookie year he showed IMO pretty well that he very much is capable of being the 2nd option. Unfortunately it was a tanking Bulls.

He has indeed been inconsistent especially under Boylen and I cannot deny that he has missed more games than he should have. Last season with the Cavs Lauri proved that he can be a consistent contributor as a starter regardless of the position change from PF to SF. Maybe a bit streeky with 3pt shooting but he was a positive on D and also found different ways to contribute on offense when 3pt was not falling.

During the Cavs season the coaching staff seemed to give a lot of attention to fixing the things that bulls coachin effed up with stuff such as bulking up and hence losing mobility. Right now Lauri looks like he is in excellent form and that will probably show on NBA-courts also.

The best thing for Lauri was that the time with the Cavs brought back his love for the game. In that sense it is a bummer that Lauri can no longer be a part of that team but it is what it is. Hopefully he will find his happy-place as a Jazzman.

[ShootersShoot]

Who peed in your cheerios?

I think there are plenty of GMs who consider Lauri as a starter. I do agree, it will be intresting to see what position Lauri will play for Jazz but thus far on NBA level Cavs tenur showed that there are plenty of positions where he can contribute at a decent level.

To me it is mind boggling how even after yesterdays Croatia game still some people continue to outrule any possibility for Lauri to actually being able to be a part of an NBA-team's core. The potential is obviously still there. It comes down to the team to utilize those strengths and find a spot that accomodates Lauri's strengths. Frankly, Boylen was the worst coach imaginable for any NBA-team and that affected Lauri's development and especially motivation.

I would just love to see Lauri prove all these doubters wrong.

What did I say that was wrong? Being a decent player with a gallinari like potential is not a bad ceiling for what he has shown so far.

I was responding to the statement that he can be a second option..I just don't believe he can be a legit second option on a team...do you?

Has he not been injury prone?
Has he been a starter on a playoff team?
What makes him ideal for a given position, as a role player or go to guy? I'm not saying he cannot play the wing or PF, but what traits would make him ideal for either position?

Anyone that uses these small sample international comps as a basis for how guys can perform in the nba are absolutely clueless, like yourself.

A whole bunch of plain negativity. Sometimes if you have nothing good to say might be better not to say anything, just saying.

During Lauri's rookie year he showed IMO pretty well that he very much is capable of being the 2nd option. Unfortunately it was a tanking Bulls.

He has indeed been inconsistent especially under Boylen and I cannot deny that he has missed more games than he should have. Last season with the Cavs Lauri proved that he can be a consistent contributor as a starter regardless of the position change from PF to SF. Maybe a bit streeky with 3pt shooting but he was a positive on D and also found different ways to contribute on offense when 3pt was not falling.

During the Cavs season the coaching staff seemed to give a lot of attention to fixing the things that bulls coachin effed up with stuff such as bulking up and hence losing mobility. Right now Lauri looks like he is in excellent form and that will probably show on NBA-courts also.

The best thing for Lauri was that the time with the Cavs brought back his love for the game. In that sense it is a bummer that Lauri can no longer be a part of that team but it is what it is. Hopefully he will find his happy-place as a Jazzman.

Averaging 18.7 ppg on 55% TS for a 22 win team while missing 30 games is not really indicative of someone that can be a go to second option for a good team in the league. It does show that he has potential to be a good starter though. He became more efficient with lower scoring volume. Having him average 16-17ppg on 60% TS would be much better than force feeding him so he can get to 20+ppg.

when I say legit second option, I mean like an all star level player. Being a second option for a garbage team averaging under 19ppg on below average efficiency doesnt equate to that for me. It may be a different story if he could duplicate that for multiple years but we havent seen that.

So you want me to say he could be core option in the nba based on averaging 18ppg one season for a 22 win team and playing well in a fiba tournament? Am I not free to express my opinion of his game as I choose? Where am I being unnecessarily negative about him other than pointing out valid concerns and facts?

Are we not to discuss his injury history and unconventional skillset and body type for nba positions when analyzing how well he may fair in his nba career? Isnt that what scout and analysts do? Don't other people in this thread have similar concerns? I'm not the only person to bring these type of points.

[TheSeeker]

Cleveland pushed him into a new role at SF and as a starter last year, and he adjusted really well. I actually think including him in the Mitchell trade may come back to haunt Cleveland.

They don't have any other SF that shoots threes better than average to spread the floor. That will hurt them unless they can figure out a trade.

It will be interesting where Utah decides to play him, as I actually think there is more upside to having him at the SF position. As others have said, his health will be his biggest indicator for success, just as it will be with Sexton. Staying healthy in a high pace league that requires 82 regular season games is no easy feat, even if some of these athletes make it look simple.

[Finfro]

@ShootersShoot I am not in total disagreement of your analysis of the statistics. However, in my line of work I have seen many cases where underperforming poeple have basically just not been given the room to improve. Once they have been fitted into a better situation and given responsibility they thrive and excell. This doesn't translate directly to high-end athletes but my point is that also NBA-players experience physical and mental development that cannot directly be quantified based on past statistics. Underwhelming players have breakthrough seasons all of the sudden and become stars. Superstars choose to change scenery and they become average contributors. Its called life.

My criticism towards your posts is that to me it seems that you are cherry-picking all the bad stuff to fit a narrative. If you only point out the negative without even trying to objectively see the other side of the coin equally, that pretty much is the definition of bashing. Especially in a thread opened to celebrate a superb performance. Regardless of the small sample size and regardless that its Euroball.

I do see a lot of people here really really like to argue based on statistics. I get it. I understand the appeal. But also, there are a lot of us who just prefer to cheer their teams and favorite players for the sake of cheering without deep diving into advanced statistics.

[jbk1234]

He hasnt proven he can be part of a winning team and hasnt played more than 61 games in his career since his rookie season. He isnt really an ideal type of starter at any position even as a role player let alone a go to option. I'd say he is a decent player but saying he can be a second option is pure nonsense. Maybe he can be like a gallinari type player.

The Cavs we're a winning team last season.